Further research on e cigs in Korea

[ckim111]

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Edit by Admin

Please see the thread in Media News for an explanation of this issue.

I have just appeared on the TBS Primetime radio show in Korea to refute these allegations. Basically, the lab the Korea Health Ministry used was incompetent and contaminated the samples. No other lab, including the FDA, found these chemicals - which tells the story.

I'm closing this thread because it needs to be discussed in one place. Please use the Media News thread. This is a media issue, for discussion of incompetent lab procedures and propaganda published in the media.

Roly

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I know there was an article posted a few days ago but this one contains some facts. This is currently big news in Korea as many Koreans use ecigs.

I'm not here to try and convince any of you on our viewpoints. I just wanted to share as there are facts that you can not deny. So please no flaming as I'm just sharing what I saw on the news and read. Are ecigs a healthier alternative to analogs? Possibly. Do they contain harmful carcinogens that can be detrimental to our healh? Probably.

Contain carcinogens, hormones, unspecified levels of nicotine


Electronic cigarettes may be no alternative to the real thing.

The Ministry of Health and Welfare announced Thursday that e-cigarettes contain carcinogens, or cancer causing substances, just as cigarettes with tobacco do. They also contain environmental hormones that could damage the endocrine system.

Health authorities asked people to pay extra attention when they choose e-cigarettes as a means to “gradually curb smoking.”

A research team under the ministry studied 121 e-cigarette items released by 13 distributors across the nation, and found that all of the e-cigarettes had excessive amounts of nicotine. While tobacco cigarettes contain 0.05 milligrams of nicotine, some e-cigarettes contained up to 36.15 milligrams of nicotine in each one-milliliter liquid nicotine cartridge. The amount is equivalent to 723 tobacco cigarettes, the authorities said.

“Moreover, the manufacturers did not express the amount of nicotine contained in a single e-cigarette on the packages of the products, which could mislead users that it is less health-threatening than tobacco,” a ministry official said.

Among those researched, 82 e-cigarettes were found to contain 0.08-2,274.04 milligrams per liter (mg/l) of diethyl phthalate and 15 were detected with 0.3-99.49 mg/l of diethylhexyl phthalate.

DEP and DEHP block male hormones and mimic female hormone activities. DEHP is banned from use in Europe.

Also, all liquid cartridges were found with acetaldehyde in a density of up to 11.91 mg/l, which could be critically unhealthy when inhaled. It can cause damage to the lungs, kidneys, respiratory organs and the throat.

Moreover, four of the products were detected with a small amount of nitrosamine, graded as a class-1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

A total of 103 products were found containing formaldehyde. But the authorities said formaldehyde could naturally be added during the manufacturing and storing process.

“The research results break the common belief that e-cigarettes do not contain carcinogens or other critical substances. If exposed to the e-cigarette ingredients through inhaling, it could pose critical health damage to the consumers,” the ministry said.

The government admitted that e-cigarette management has been in its blind spot because most of the products are manufactured in China. The fact that the monitoring responsibility lies with local administrations also led to loose management, the ministry said.

A bill is pending at the National Assembly to include e-cigarettes under the cigarette management law.

“We should monitor the manufacturing and distribution processes more tightly,” a ministry official said.

Health authorities said the ministry will study the harm of vapors from e-cigarettes to humans. They also plan to examine the effects of secondhand smoke from the product later this year.

By Bae Ji-sook (baejisook@heraldm.com)

 

[denali_41]

as for that dehp blocking make hormones ?? i can attest that not happening with me,,quite the opposite actually

 

[SusanK]

Not flaming you, but this doesn't even sound right.

The vendors that I, and most people on ecf, get our juice from are people who actually make each batch themselves. I'm pretty sure, if you test my juice from Ms. T, there's no formaldehyde... Sure, if you're buying pre-filled or from China, ya might wanna be worried. Me? Not so much.

 

[Rockproof]

Gotta see how this one plays out...Wonder what CASAA will have to say

 

[ckim111]

i am not flaming you but, which base[PG or VG] did they study ?? did they study the base liquid before the vaping process or after ??

Good question and unfortunately they did not say....

 

[ckim111]

On the news that I watched they mentioned some of these harmful chemicals being present in not just liquids but in the actual devices like cartos and attys as well. But yeah who knows how harmful they are. All I know is that it can't be any good for you

 

[Jim Bob]

Not flaming either but I find it disturbing such claims are made but names are not named on which companies were tested, which ones had "what" , it seems TO ME that IF testing is done and unbiased (much less factual) there is no good reason to leave out any pertinent details, thus when they are left totally out of the picture I have to question more than just the methodology of testing. IOW it's quite easy to make claims , backing claims up with facts is quite another matter IMO.

Also they mention "carcinogens" (plural) but then name one found in "some" samples ; make the statement as fact they are not safer yet dismiss outright that cigarettes have more than 60 known carcinogens , not to mention the actual poisons they contain (lead, arsenic , cyanide just to name a few) . I would like to see more than "claims of facts" without that it's an opinion stated as fact in my view. Having opinions is great, trying to pass them off as facts is not

 

[spicyed]

There is no reason for any of those chemicals to be in anything e-cig related. Calling BS until at least the actual study is released.

 

[azzaman]

This is a news article published by the Korean herald. When was the last time a person trusted the media for non biased information. The study was conducted by the health ministry, hmmmm and the government is always neutral when it under takes it's own research.

It appears they have used this single study to justify their decision to regulate e cigs like analogs. Dodgy!

Tried really hard not to flame.

 

[azzaman]

The issue I have with all of this, is if e cigarettes are banned because they are bad for your health. Then by that logic, all products containing nicotine should be banned.

 

[ckim111]

The issue I have with all of this, is if e cigarettes are banned because they are bad for your health. Then by that logic, all products containing nicotine should be banned.

But ecigs are not banned. They are legal in korea

 

[azzaman]

I was making a statement. Obviously they are legal ATM in korea.

 

[Spazmelda]

I haven't had time to look all the stuff up, but I focused on acetaldehyde. This report says: "Also, all liquid cartridges were found with acetaldehyde in a density of up to 11.91 mg/l, which could be critically unhealthy when inhaled."

So, 11.92 mg/L would be 11.91 (mg / L) = 0.01191 mg/ml

A report I found on acetaldehyde says this: "It has also been reported that acetaldehyde is released from cigarette smoke at a rate of 0.87-1.37 mg/cigarette (Hoffman et al., 1975).

All right, 0.01191 mg/ml acetaldehyde in e-cig juice, versus about 1 mg/ml in the smoke from one cigarette, that's a 100 fold difference. That's just one reference I found, and I'd have to look some more to see if that's accurate.

So is this a case similar to what we saw with the FDA report, where things are presented without any frame of reference? The article about the Korean report also says small amounts off nitrosamines were found, which we already knew from various reports, and we already know that the small amounts found are nothing compared to the amounts in cigarettes, and are likely below any amount that would produce a health effect.

I haven't really looked too much into the diethyl phthalate and diethylhexyl phthalate. I did find that diethyl phthalate is commonly used in (as?) a plasticizer, so it could very well be coming from the hardware.

0.08-2,274.04 mg/L for diethyl phthalate is a pretty big range (0.00008 mg/ml - 2.27404 mg/ml). How many of those that came up positive for this were at the low end of the range and how many at the high end? The low end of the range is probably pretty low to see any health effect, but I'm just guessing.

Okay, I'm not trying to bash, but trying to get an idea of just how big (or small) these numbers are.

ETA: The fact that they reported their numbers in mg/L is kind of sneaky, IMO, and makes the numbers appear bigger than they actually are.

 

[ckim111]

I haven't had time to look all the stuff up, but I focused on acetaldehyde. This report says: "Also, all liquid cartridges were found with acetaldehyde in a density of up to 11.91 mg/l, which could be critically unhealthy when inhaled."

So, 11.92 mg/L would be 11.91 (mg / L) = 0.01191 mg/ml

A report I found on acetaldehyde says this: "It has also been reported that acetaldehyde is released from cigarette smoke at a rate of 0.87-1.37 mg/cigarette (Hoffman et al., 1975).

All right, 0.01191 mg/ml acetaldehyde in e-cig juice, versus about 1 mg/ml in the smoke from one cigarette, that's a 100 fold difference. That's just one reference I found, and I'd have to look some more to see if that's accurate.

So is this a case similar to what we saw with the FDA report, where things are presented without any frame of reference? The article about the Korean report also says small amounts off nitrosamines were found, which we already knew from various reports, and we already know that the small amounts found are nothing compared to the amounts in cigarettes, and are likely below any amount that would produce a health effect.

I haven't really looked too much into the diethyl phthalate and diethylhexyl phthalate. I did find that diethyl phthalate is commonly used in (as?) a plasticizer, so it could very well be coming from the hardware.

0.08-2,274.04 mg/L for diethyl phthalate is a pretty big range (0.00008 mg/ml - 2.27404 mg/ml). How many of those that came up positive for this were at the low end of the range and how many at the high end? The low end of the range is probably pretty low to see any health effect, but I'm just guessing.

Okay, I'm not trying to bash, but trying to get an idea of just how big (or small) these numbers are.

ETA: The fact that they reported their numbers in mg/L is kind of sneaky, IMO, and makes the numbers appear bigger than they actually are.

Spaz thanks for providing this info. This is very informative as well. As I said it was just food for thought. I don't doubt there could be some bias in these research findings. The underlying message though from the news reports is that ecigs can have harmful effects. Not to the degree of analogs but no one can refute that they are completely healthy either.

But let me be clear. Again I am just passing along what I read and saw. These are not my viewpoints and I have no intention of anything else besides sharing.

 

[martinc]

Might be about context;

Perhaps somebody claimed that there are no toxins in vaping at all,and they proved them wrong.

Thing is,they throw numbers at people and most people have no idea what they mean,just pub;lic opinion shaping at this point.

 

[ckim111]

Might be about context;

Perhaps somebody claimed that there are no toxins in vaping at all,and they proved them wrong.

Thing is,they throw numbers at people and most people have no idea what they mean,just pub;lic opinion shaping at this point.

Excellent point and I agree!

 

[annah]

This sounds strikingly similar to the study done by the FDA. Wonder if they did their own, or just translated the fda one..

 

[Jstcriusen]

Governments see lost tax money down the road. Pharm. companies most likely see bigger losses.
Most of the tests by the FDA and such wouldnt even be getting done until 1000's or more died from E- cigs if it wasnt for the almighty dollar.

People die from smoking on a daily basis..........Has any country any where banned tobacco products completely? There absolutely no good that comes from it in a health point of view. They just raise the taxes on them and let you go on your merry way!
If I died from smoking tomorrow. I would be just another number added to the statistics. I something should happen and I died from a E-cig. News would be spread around the world before my body was cold...........

If governments want to be informative, Fine......... But I think we all know why most of these studies are being done in the end.

Edit : No bashing or sacrcasm intended to the original poster intended. I'm just ranting..........
Thanks for the Info. All info is good IMO.

 

[mel_vin]

what I always find interesting is: We are all educated and in agreement that smoking cigarettes - long term, has known and proven consequences, and is luck of the draw. (stroke, heart attack, COPD, death etc). Yet cigarettes are still produced, not banned and still consumed! What the heck does this tell us?

I am on the fence about vaping. I mean dont get me wrong, I enjoy the heck out of it Its kept me off analogs. But its not like I haven't suffered any side effects from it like: SOB, canker sores and phlemgy feeling. (and before you go there, its been 2 years since Ive had a real smoke, so its not a quitting thing). Yet I see first hand and read here about people who vape their brains out without a care issue.


Anyway back on topic, lets just say that it was somehow proven that to vape is "healthier" than smoking. Just imagine if every smoker in the US/Canada where to switch to vaping from because they heard this? Even if HALF the amount of total smokers converted to vaping. How scared would these governments be with all that LOST revenue from taxed cigarettes??

its great we have this forum for support but I wish we had some actual MD Doctors on here who vape.

 

[D4rk50ul]

Until my body or my Doctor tells me otherwise, I'll be over here vaping instead of dooming myself with analogs. I wish the people making millions in the industry would take action and form their OWN "FDA" without the corruption and payoffs. I know each company has their own Quality control systems in place but nothing is as trust worthy as a neutral entity.

Imagine the amount of ammunition that would be taken away from these less than honest organizations if the industry policed itself via an unbiased entity using random sample testing from all vendors, rigorous quality control checks, and product recalls based on findings. They could do stress tests on sealed batteries and other equipment, effects of certain ingredients on the human body over long term exposure (I'm sure nobody would mind being a guinea pig to a neutral organization's scientists/doctors), among a million other studies. I know we have organizations that help protect our rights and also get the truth out but we don't have anything like this that I'm aware of.