Genni pros! Cotton or Mesh!?

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edyle

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I wrap the coil on a drill bit, but not in the wick hole. Then, with the coil still on the drill bit, I put the bit into the wick hole. Connect the positive and negative. Pull the bit out of the mounted coil. Fire the coil a couple times, to make sure it's working properly. Then roll the mesh wick, and size it so that it slides into the coil, with slight resistance. Pulse out the hot spots with the power button.
View attachment 325616

thanks; never tried that; i only wrapped coil directly on mesh; hadn't even occured to me to even try to put the rolled mesh in afterwards!

btw, wouldn't it be easier to wrap a mircocoil anyway; I'm looking at that picture and wondering why the wraps are so widely spaced; is that deliberate, or just easier to wrap that way?
 

Maurice Pudlo

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thanks; never tried that; i only wrapped coil directly on mesh; hadn't even occured to me to even try to put the rolled mesh in afterwards!

btw, wouldn't it be easier to wrap a mircocoil anyway; I'm looking at that picture and wondering why the wraps are so widely spaced; is that deliberate, or just easier to wrap that way?

It sort of depends on the design of the atty; the taller the minimum center post height is the more wraps your going to have if you go the micro coil route, or you end up with really long +/- legs trying to get the coil at the center of the vertical wick.

My current 3/4 open wrap (2 strand twisted 28ga) around a 3/32" SS cable with 500 mesh sleeve nails 0.50 +/-0.01 ohms every time, the same quantity of wire would need to be wound on a 14ga needle to be tall enough on my genny with its fixed + post height. Then the thing would leak like a sieve.

If I wanted to run such a thin wick, I'd have to modify the wick hole, easy enough with a pressed in insert, but I don't want to go that route.

Similarly I could reduce the + post height and do a short micro coil, still the open coil works fine, so why expend money and energy that isn't needed?

Most genesis atties are built with the lower gauge resistance wires or ribbon, or multiple strand twisted higher gauge resistance wires. Both are fairly easy to pre-coil, in fact I have a batch of them that were not only pre-coiled but also installed then removed prior to use. This makes re-coiling a 30 second job at best.

With the multitude of wick options out there; SS mesh (and the many methods of using it), SS mesh plus other wick material, cotton, yarn, ceramic, cable, the list goes on, the genny is versatile. A single genny can be built into hundreds of formats to suit the users desires.

You ask "wouldn't it be easier to wrap a mircocoil anyway?", well that's not the attraction of a genny. Easier is the world of clearomizers, where the genny is at the opposite end of the spectrum with unlimited possibility.

The original question about cotton or mesh can be answered with a multitude of options, cotton can be wicked through the deck or just to the deck, normal cotton wick rules apply (less is usually the right amount but not always), mesh can be made into a hollow straw, a filled with cotton straw or super tight visually solid roll, it can be cut with the grain or across the grain, it comes in a number of mesh sizes which can be combined together in a single wick, it can extend just into the deck, or through the deck, in some gennies it can be curved to form a U wick.

As you can see the number of options are nearly unlimited. Each method has qualities that are liked or disliked, I'm liking the SS cable and 500 mesh sleeve wick at the moment because it is just working day in and day out with no real maintenance, you just don't have to break down good stainless steel stuff all that often.

I'd suggest doing the cotton wick trimmed to the deck surface if you don't have a ton of experience doing other builds. You'll be replacing the little bit of cotton regularly, so you'll have plenty of time to learn to roll the various mesh wicks.

Solid mesh is easy to make once you figure it out (roll loosely by hand, work it with care to get it as tight as you can, flame oxidize it, lay the wick between two pieces of card stock and roll the wick tighter) then test fit to a very uniform coil that was pre-wound on a rod then mounted in the genny. It's a good idea to keep notes on what size your initial wick mesh was cut to so you can adjust it later. Any way trim excess if you need to and re-burn it because you just exposed fresh metal.

Hollow straw type mesh wicks are just that, they will wick faster the more open you build them, really really fast. Fast enough to challenge your coil building ability and put your battery into the Ok I'm really working hard to keep up realm. You will know exactly when it's time to change a battery or seriously adjust your VV/VW settings, because you will get a mouthful of warmed up juice and little vapor if they aren't where they need to be.

Cotton, I would suggest getting a really pointy set of tweezers to make this easier; make a regular cotton wick to fit the coil (an extra copy off to the side is nice to check if you have the right amount of cotton), insert the wick pointy end through the coil, grab the cotton and pull it through and over the deck side and cut off the tightly rolled section, then pull the wick back just enough so that the cut end is flush over the wick hole (no more), now trim the top of the wick and prime it with your favorite juice. This works with an open fill hole, flow rate depends on how close your cotton wick is to the wick hole, the closer the wick matches the hole size the better off you'll be, bigger is fine, smaller not so much.

Cotton II, you can run the wick into the juice tank, good luck with that. I looks goofy, and really doesn't work that well.

Maurice
 

Annie56

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Im with Ryedan, Wattwick, Rule62, and other mesh fans. I got to playing around with my Aga T2 today, out of boredom. And rebuilt a Did, and used a bottle-green glass tank, even tho i vowed to never try glass tanx again. I missed seeing my juice:(

using 0.5 4/3 wrap ribbon kanthal. 1.0Ω on my T2, with a drilled out wickhole 1/8( Thank You Ryedan!). Wee bit of 200 mesh, 15mm wide, rolled the little sliver around a 5/64 Allen key. Nice, earthy, cappuccino ejuice flavour.

The Did, 50mm 270 mesh. Same wrap as above 1.2Ω, 3.5mm wick hole
a9aza7a6.jpg
avevyju2.jpg
 
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Ryedan

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You wrap the coil on a drill bit first, THEN put the mesh through the coil and wick hole?

I wrap the coil on a drill bit, but not in the wick hole. Then, with the coil still on the drill bit, I put the bit into the wick hole. Connect the positive and negative. Pull the bit out of the mounted coil. Fire the coil a couple times, to make sure it's working properly. Then roll the mesh wick, and size it so that it slides into the coil, with slight resistance. Pulse out the hot spots with the power button.
View attachment 325616

Yup, I do it almost the same way Rule62 does, but I wrap Kanthal with the drill in the AGA-T. However, looking at the nice neat wraps Rule62 is getting with his setup, I'm going to try it his way next time :thumb:

I use 27 gauge Kanthal. That's pretty stable after I take out the drill bit. I roll the mesh and fit it carefully so it is the correct diameter. I typically make it slightly smaller at the bottom end, try it and adjust the upper end so it is just snug in the coil. Too tight and I find getting rid of shorts is really hard. Too lose and I get slightly metallic flavor. Usually 2 or 3 tries and I've got it.

When it's right I can take the wick out easily for cleaning so don't have to dry burn with the wick in. I like that.
 

Ryedan

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I'm sure this will be well received, but quite honestly, I don't understand the point of buying a genesis atomizer just to stick cotton in it.

It's intended to be used with mesh. Is it as easy as coiling a Kayfun? Nope. It's just that much more rewarding once you've figured out the process.

Save your cotton balls for your Kayfun.

I hear ya VaPreis, but as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter what something was originally designed for, if you can make it perform better for you there's nothing wrong with doing it that way.

I've also seen people put SS wicks in Kayfuns (that really surprised me), drippers and a few other devices. Whatever works is all good :)
 

Ryedan

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It sort of depends on the design of the atty; the taller the minimum center post height is the more wraps your going to have if you go the micro coil route, or you end up with really long +/- legs trying to get the coil at the center of the vertical wick.

My current 3/4 open wrap (2 strand twisted 28ga) around a 3/32" SS cable with 500 mesh sleeve nails 0.50 +/-0.01 ohms every time, the same quantity of wire would need to be wound on a 14ga needle to be tall enough on my genny with its fixed + post height. Then the thing would leak like a sieve.

If I wanted to run such a thin wick, I'd have to modify the wick hole, easy enough with a pressed in insert, but I don't want to go that route.

Similarly I could reduce the + post height and do a short micro coil, still the open coil works fine, so why expend money and energy that isn't needed?

Most genesis atties are built with the lower gauge resistance wires or ribbon, or multiple strand twisted higher gauge resistance wires. Both are fairly easy to pre-coil, in fact I have a batch of them that were not only pre-coiled but also installed then removed prior to use. This makes re-coiling a 30 second job at best.

With the multitude of wick options out there; SS mesh (and the many methods of using it), SS mesh plus other wick material, cotton, yarn, ceramic, cable, the list goes on, the genny is versatile. A single genny can be built into hundreds of formats to suit the users desires.

You ask "wouldn't it be easier to wrap a mircocoil anyway?", well that's not the attraction of a genny. Easier is the world of clearomizers, where the genny is at the opposite end of the spectrum with unlimited possibility.

The original question about cotton or mesh can be answered with a multitude of options, cotton can be wicked through the deck or just to the deck, normal cotton wick rules apply (less is usually the right amount but not always), mesh can be made into a hollow straw, a filled with cotton straw or super tight visually solid roll, it can be cut with the grain or across the grain, it comes in a number of mesh sizes which can be combined together in a single wick, it can extend just into the deck, or through the deck, in some gennies it can be curved to form a U wick.

As you can see the number of options are nearly unlimited. Each method has qualities that are liked or disliked, I'm liking the SS cable and 500 mesh sleeve wick at the moment because it is just working day in and day out with no real maintenance, you just don't have to break down good stainless steel stuff all that often.

I'd suggest doing the cotton wick trimmed to the deck surface if you don't have a ton of experience doing other builds. You'll be replacing the little bit of cotton regularly, so you'll have plenty of time to learn to roll the various mesh wicks.

Solid mesh is easy to make once you figure it out (roll loosely by hand, work it with care to get it as tight as you can, flame oxidize it, lay the wick between two pieces of card stock and roll the wick tighter) then test fit to a very uniform coil that was pre-wound on a rod then mounted in the genny. It's a good idea to keep notes on what size your initial wick mesh was cut to so you can adjust it later. Any way trim excess if you need to and re-burn it because you just exposed fresh metal.

Hollow straw type mesh wicks are just that, they will wick faster the more open you build them, really really fast. Fast enough to challenge your coil building ability and put your battery into the Ok I'm really working hard to keep up realm. You will know exactly when it's time to change a battery or seriously adjust your VV/VW settings, because you will get a mouthful of warmed up juice and little vapor if they aren't where they need to be.

Cotton, I would suggest getting a really pointy set of tweezers to make this easier; make a regular cotton wick to fit the coil (an extra copy off to the side is nice to check if you have the right amount of cotton), insert the wick pointy end through the coil, grab the cotton and pull it through and over the deck side and cut off the tightly rolled section, then pull the wick back just enough so that the cut end is flush over the wick hole (no more), now trim the top of the wick and prime it with your favorite juice. This works with an open fill hole, flow rate depends on how close your cotton wick is to the wick hole, the closer the wick matches the hole size the better off you'll be, bigger is fine, smaller not so much.

Cotton II, you can run the wick into the juice tank, good luck with that. I looks goofy, and really doesn't work that well.

Maurice

Great post Maurice :toast:! You've covered all the basic setup options and then some very well. I'm going to bookmark your post for the next time someone asks about setup options :thumb:
 

WillMcK

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I've always used mesh with geni's.

Organic cotton is great for drippers where all you have to do is slide it out, burn off the juice, and put a new one in.

I don't feel like having to take the tank off to pull through the cotton because the whole reason I use a geni (mostly for at work and in the car) is for convenience because of minimal maintenance (don't drip and drive). So using cotton would defeat the purpose. I always use mesh.
 

Maurice Pudlo

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I don't feel like having to take the tank off to pull through the cotton because the whole reason I use a geni (mostly for at work and in the car) is for convenience because of minimal maintenance (don't drip and drive). So using cotton would defeat the purpose. I always use mesh.

I'd suggest doing the cotton wick trimmed to the deck surface if you don't have a ton of experience doing other builds. You'll be replacing the little bit of cotton regularly, so you'll have plenty of time to learn to roll the various mesh wicks.

You don't have to thread the cotton through the deck at all, just trim it to be flush with the deck and it works doing the genny tilt (air hole down tilt to :)\ or :)_ if your tank is way low). Waiting on a wick to actually suck up enough fluid through capillary action to vaporize is not always practical.

With this method your just pulling the cap off, it's a 2 or 3 minute at most job to rewick.

To be quite honest I may have an unhealthy affection for the sleeved cable wick, I'm nearly certain there is no way to kill this system.

Maurice
 

Glenn_K

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Hey guys I've always been intrigued by genesis RBA's but never got one until now, my grand vapors prometheus came in the mails today, and I have a gorgeous .4 dual coil in her and ready to go. It was way easier than I thought, everyone scared me by saying "it's a learning curve" and "good luck if you haven't tried one", and "you shoulda started with a russian....<snip> -I've got her going great now, but just wondering if it's better with ss mesh?

The learning curve really applies to mesh wick builds, cotton genny builds are more quite a bit easier.

Better with mesh? I think so, but it probably comes down to personal taste. I think there are vapers who do know how to make mesh wick builds who simply prefer other devices. My :2c: is that I like my KF (with cotton) just fine, but most of the e-liquids I buy are more flavorful in a mesh-wicked genny.

Congrats on the new Prometheus btw.

-- Glenn
 

havok333

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You don't have to thread the cotton through the deck at all, just trim it to be flush with the deck and it works doing the genny tilt (air hole down tilt to :)\ or :)_ if your tank is way low). Waiting on a wick to actually suck up enough fluid through capillary action to vaporize is not always practical.

With this method your just pulling the cap off, it's a 2 or 3 minute at most job to rewick.

To be quite honest I may have an unhealthy affection for the sleeved cable wick, I'm nearly certain there is no way to kill this system.

Maurice

Yeah, I had a cable topped with mesh setup that I used daily or about 10 months. Took it apart to rebuild lower resistance (only gennie at the time) but it could have kept going or sure. Was a pretty gnarly piece of mesh on top though after all that time.

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treehead

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i have a real prometheus and am running .3 with twisted wire using cotton. no drilling but i keep the cotton significantly higher than the hole. almost 0 c0verage. i tip it over for 2 seconds and its fully ready for three hits.

i started with elk on steel wire and it was wicking amazing 0 drip problems even when i tipped it over for long, but it wasnt producing the flavor or the vapor. this auto drip is my favorite so far.

I was thinking about twisting, or using a higher gauge wire, I figured out alot of my problem was not spacing my coil evenly between the postive and negative post :facepalm:. It wasn't hard for me at all to install a perfect coil, but MAN was it hard to get them glowing evenly, the negative post would always pull the coil towards it now matter how much I braced it. But I figured it out and now I have awesome results with a 45degree (diagonal) coil evenly spaced between the two posts.

-After I tested the drilling on my clone, I did it (more carefully lol) to my Grand Vapors authentic and now it's truly a self-feeding RDA. I have to be honest this was the trickiest gal to get turned on, but now I couldn't be happier. I don't have to tip, I can vape on her as fast/hard as I want, and she gives me MORE vapor than my Trident, however the flavor and density/warmth are sacrificed just a tad (I really don't care too much about flavor as long as it's there, and I've never gotten the warmth craze, however I do like my density. I'm thinking about drilling the smaller dual air-holes the next drill bit down from the largest to compensate). My perfect method I'm afraid to change right now is:
-.5ohm dual coil (7 wraps on 3/32'' gauge, 28ga kanthal), tilted diagonally and thus "pulling" the cotton wick to one half of the wick hole (leaving half open).
-bored out my wick hole AND fill hole to their maximum, space allowing. (prometheus is: wick holes 9/64", fill hole 7'64")
-LOOSELY wicking the coils and wrapping tail on the backside of them, and the other tail taking up half the fill hole diameter and going to bottom of the tank.

With this method it did EXACTLY what I was hoping for! RDA quality vapor, and decent flavor, from a self-wicking tank. I'm serious I don't even need to tip it anymore with this much pressure clearance. (Before I was basically "plugging" the wick holes, and it wasn't allowing enough pressure to escape so the cotton could "pull" the juice out, especially when it was full and tipped.)
 

treehead

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The learning curve really applies to mesh wick builds, cotton genny builds are more quite a bit easier.

Better with mesh? I think so, but it probably comes down to personal taste. I think there are vapers who do know how to make mesh wick builds who simply prefer other devices. My :2c: is that I like my KF (with cotton) just fine, but most of the e-liquids I buy are more flavorful in a mesh-wicked genny.

Congrats on the new Prometheus btw.

-- Glenn

My thoughts exactly brother, since then I've mastered ss mesh, and it's really not bad, I dig it. But I still prefer cotton because like I said later, you can't beat it's wicking speed and taste. The ss mesh is an awesome idea to me, I wanted it to blow cotton out of the water because I like the idea of an indestructable wick. But that's all it is, my thoughts on it are:
-It's got good wicking speed (especially when tipped), but not better than cotton.
-It's convenient/easier to use because even though the wicking can't fully keep up, it doesn't matter because you can vape it "dry".
-You sacrifice a little bit of taste for that "indestruct-ability", some believe that it tastes cleaner, but I washed and oxidized the hell out of it and still couldn't get rid of that slight metal taste. However once the mesh got a thick coating of burnt juice on it, I couldn't taste it anymore.
-It's a tad bit trickier to set up initially, but saves you hassle in the long run.
-Is foolproof. (and I'm definitely a fool that needs proofing :p)

Overall I'll still go back to cotton, but if I'm going on any cross country road trips anytime soon I'll definitely bring some mesh. I think ultimately it's good for the vaper that just doesn't want to deal with a wick that will burn when their RBA can't keep up, it's much easier just to build and forget, where-as cotton you really have to know how it works and is a little trickier, but definitely worth it if you know how everything works.
-
 

Glenn_K

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Great post, I really appreciate the detail.

Your technique for mesh wick preparation sounds excellent; an unevenly rolled wick can cause a lots of grief when using the drill bit method.

But when it comes to gennies like the Z-Atty or RSST, with plenty of room between the wick hole and center post, isn't it easier just to wrap the coil with the wick already in place? I have an RSST, and I find that doing mesh wick builds on it is so easy, there's no need to use a labor-intensive technique like the drill bit method.

But my favourite genny, in terms of taste and vapor production, has minimal room between the wick hole and center post, and I haven't yet succeeded with a directly wrapped coil. I'm going to try the drill bit method, using your suggestion for rolling an even wick. Cheers! :vapor:

-- Glenn

....Solid mesh is easy to make once you figure it out (roll loosely by hand, work it with care to get it as tight as you can, flame oxidize it, lay the wick between two pieces of card stock and roll the wick tighter) then test fit to a very uniform coil that was pre-wound on a rod then mounted in the genny. It's a good idea to keep notes on what size your initial wick mesh was cut to so you can adjust it later. Any way trim excess if you need to and re-burn it because you just exposed fresh metal.....
 
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DSmooch

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cotton in a genny can be great. there are diff. ways to do it. But the pb is it's high maintenance and not very forgiving (a dry hit will have consequences). I tried to be a cotton purist... and the idea that its so readily available... But really, the best place for cotton is inside an RDA while you have it in one hand and a bottle of juice in the other. There are ways to use ur genny as a dripper, but u'd be missing out on both the genny and the RDA experience.
And after all that's been said and done, I can see ppl (of the old gen gen :) are still using mesh... I'm very impressed.

I would suggest you experiment with diff. sizes of ss ropes and use ekowool (or treated nextel) for sleeving. unlike mesh on rope, there is no heat sink and its very user friendly. I even have a KF running on a 1mm rope and 1.5 eko sleeve! Quite a few genys on ss rope (2.5, 3mm) + nextel. well, I'll say it, even my nimbus RDA is on 2mm rope. Maintenance? max once a month, after heavy use and if you not lazy. I got my TNS running 2 months straight (I am lazy). I opened it the other day just out of curiosity... torched the setup a bit and put it back as is for another 2 months I guess.
keep that one in one of you drawers, that might be useful!
 

inanitydefined

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I love cotton all around. sooner or later I'll try mesh but as good as my gennys perform with cotton, I wonder if itll be worth the extra effort.

Also, genny tanks rule! Quad coils in a genny scares small children on the exhale, and flavor is every bit as good as a well set up dripper
 
I have tried just about every single possible wick method out there for a genesis. Silica, ekowool, cotton threaded ekowool, ewool on ss rope, mesh on rope, mesh only, different kinds of coil wraps with different gauges, etc. I posted in the vets section about an issue I was experiencing with the cotton threaded ekowool. Oh and I also tried straight cotton. Currently I am using 2mm ss rope with cotton under a micro style coil, 6/5 wrap 30g in a hydra titanium. The coil was done on a small screw driver about 3mm wide. 1.5ohm set 15w power and so far this is the best and most consistent vape I have achieved with minimal effort. I have been searching for a simple, yet effective wick/coil setup and this seems to be as close I have gotten to perfection.
u2u4ahyt.jpg
e6aguge8.jpg


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brickfollett

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I am a 100% advocate of mesh over cotton in a genny

I use #500 mesh on my RSST with an 11 wrap microcoil, 28 gauge wire. Comes out at about 2.4 ohms and I can vape it at 5.5 volts, sometimes higher depending on the juice.

I'm sure your genny doesn't have an insulated wick hole, which can make it more difficult. What I do is use a fair amount of mesh, and make it hollow. Find a drill bit the same size as your wick hole (or wick if you aren't having the mesh wick sit tight in the wick hole) and wrap a microcoil around the drill bit. Take it off and slide it over your wick. Hook everything up and be prepared for some serious pulsing. Its going to have a tendency to short quite a bit until you fiddle with it. Once everything is glowing evenly, fill it up, put your fill plug back on (if applicable) and vape away. I produce monster clouds from my RSST, especially so after I drilled the intake hole to 5/64"

If you get the wick hollow, the juice feeds up the wick and the air feeds down the wick. No need to leave the fill plug off. Also will not leak if you get it right. I've done a few builds this way and haven't had any leaking besides minor condensation working its way out the air hole.

Mesh provides a much cleaner flavor than cotton (imo). The issue with it is that if your using syrupy 100% VG, your going to have some trouble with wicking. I dilute the juice down with distilled water to the consistency of my choosing and it works like a charm. Since it can wick fast enough, I can have my volts cranked up pretty high and produce mass amount of vapor. The higher ohm microcoils provide a greater amount of surface area on the wick and seem to distribute the heat more evenly. To help with shorts, I suppose you could do a small layer of ekowool or cotton around the area where the wick touches the wick hole. That may lead to leaking though. The genesis really is a satisfying vape and I've been surprisingly successful with my Pyrex RSST



Properly done, this is what a microcoil build should resemble. My 26 gauge one is even larger, but more prone to shorting. Not sure how I feel about the 26 ga still...
 
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brickfollett

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I agree with Ryedan. I have a couple of AGA-T2 that I use pre-rolled stainless steel mesh wicks. I add a little cotton around the wick and coil for better juice absorbtion for the mesh.

Not a real fan of the Genesis-style RBA's. They're nice if working optimally, but they can be prone to short circuits. Not an out-and-about attachment as they will leak if not kept upright, and having to do the "genny tilt" with each hit is a pain.

A Kayfun style rebuildable tank atomizer is so much easier to build and use, and is not position dependent.

View attachment 325416 AGA T2

View attachment 325417 Kayfun

I agree with you in some areas and respectfully disagree in others. Properly built, the short circuits are nill. I will agree that they are more difficult to perfect than a kayfun.

Properly built, depending on the device and the user, the leaking is also nill. I would be confident leaving mine on its side with the wick hole facing down and wouldn't worry about the whole tank leaking out. I've had mine out and about every day for a few months now and have enjoyed every puff.

I had so much trouble with my Russian 91%, and eventually gave up on it like others here. The genny tilt may annoy others and I can respect that. The air hole position while taking a vape definitely is position dependent and that's whats prevented me from buying a Zen atty Pro. I can adjust the position with my RSST fairly easily and usually still get it to flush mount.

Great minds may not always think alike, but their opinions are always valued
 
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