Getting discouraged :(

[oddballzwife]

I'm a firm believer that the quality of the juice is only as good as the quality of your device. When ascertaining mix results, the person's device is seldom or never a consideration. Even an outstanding mix will taste gross in a poorly performing device. If someone has never experienced the difference in taste between a high quality device (rba/rda) vs entry level devices or cheaply performing clones, they often find fault in the less obvious.

I didn't see where anyone asked what type device the OP was using, the freshness of the coil, battery, voltage etc...there are more factors than just percentages in the end results as to the quality of the mix/juice. What I've found (imo) is the taste of juice is mediocre to poor in all those $10 - $20 devices...juice delivery to the wick and coil degeneration being the main culprits....let alone the fact that voltage is a major consideration as it pertains to the density of different liquids.

People are always looking for advice on what's the best flavor, best pg/vg, best nic, best mix percentages but more often than not are less concerned with their devices. As an example, I know a guy that's been trying to quit smoking and having very little luck, he started vaping and has complained to me several times that he didn't like the taste of any juice. I took a look at his setup...a Kanger Evod starter kit...I pulled his coil and it was so gunked-up the battery would barely if at all deliver any heat to the coil. He was right, his juice tasted awful...nasty, burnt disgusting. He simply didn't know any better. I put in a new replacement coil I had, filled it with a juice I had mixed and let him try it. He said, "now that taste a lot better"...then I let him try the same juice I had in my KFL that had a week old build and he said, "d-a-m-n, there is no comparison, why does your's taste so much better than mine" ...some may say I'm F.O.S*it...those that have compared will know what I'm saying is true...

That could be, but right now the setup I have is all I can have. I've spent all the money I can for now. I am using a Vision Spinner 1300 with a Kanger Mini Protank 2. I always keep my coils clean and have been rebuilding as well, so I know its not build up of gunk. I do want to buy another setup sometime in the near future, but that is going to be hard to pick! What does KFL stand for?

 

[oddballzwife]

I think you are getting overwhelmed with all the selection and one flavor eventually bleeds into another. You seem to have over indulged in your buying. But it's not over yet. You just need to take a step back and take a deep breath and simplify. You need to go back to the basics and learn how to make a simple mix first then zero in on making it perfect for you.

So let’s start with a simple exercise. I read earlier you would like to make a simple RY4 so go to my blog and read it and follow the recipe. I will guarantee you will learn a lot.


Mixing 101, The Basics - A simple walk through on mixing a favorate standard... RY4

And here is some other helpful reading.

my blogs

E-Cigarette Forum - dannyv45 - Blogs

hoosier's blogs.

E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs

the stickies at the top of the page are also very helpful.

this reading material will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

Thank you! I have read one of your links and now on to read more

 

[wllmc]

so I guess I'll always be the guy who doesnt always agree with the pro's. yes the device you are using will perform better or worse than a different device available but thats not going to be the determining factor in the juice you mix. here is my personal experience. unless you are using those cheap ebay clearomizers your juice is going to taste close the same in almost any atomizer. I use and have used the kayfun clone for about 5 months solid. day in and day out because yes the kayfun is awesome. holds enough juice for at least half a day so less fill up. its rebuildable and dependable and does taste better by little higher margin. buuuuuuut that being said I started with cig alikes like most then iclears and then kanger the dripping rebuildables , cotton , slyica etc etc . point is the juice I liked in my Iclear 16 tasted great (I'd even say if it were better quality tasted better than most tanks)
. the kanger (all models) if the dang thing ever sealed or made contact was great also. dripping ...mmmmmmm but not the holy grail I kept reading about. ended up loving my kayfun for the above reason I mentioned. I would go as far as saying vaping gear is more subjective to preference than taste is. I hate "sub-ohming" to me its the stupidest thing ever.---- I ----repeat ----I -----dont think its as great as 80 percent of the vaping world. dripping rebuildables are nice to cater to your taste and taste pretty good but such a darn hassle I went back to cartomizers and cartomizer tanks pretty quickly then decided to give rebuildables another shot when I got my kayfun clone. I have alot of friends tho that will fight me to death saying thier .3 super nano flying dragon whatever will always be better and my 1.5 micro coil would never compare and I know nothing about vaping lol. for devices. Ive spent a ton of money on them between my wife and I we could probably open a vape shop lol. my favorite..... a 35 dollar hcigar mechanical clone. thing hits like champ EVERY SINGLE TIME. .................... I agree if you have 15 juices in the same tank and coil for a month, ya you will never taste anything. getting long so ill wrap it up . your rig will make a difference once you have become attached to a certain way of vaping but banana's taste like bananas I dont care who you are. If an 1clear 16 would withstand my clumsiness I might have never changed. ive talked to many veteran vapers that still use cartomizers only because thats what they like. anyways my 2 cents, not totally disagreeing but also you cant say that because you like to vape a certain way its any better than the way I vape. oddballzwife clearly likes her vendor juice in that set up so that cant really be the issue. its probably over or under flavoring or not steeping Id say.

 

[patkin]

The device used kinda muddys the issue for someone already overwhelmed with choices. I do agree but also know that my ADV on a standard ego at 3.3 volts with 1.8 ohms taste great but bad going up to 3.7 volts with the same atty and unvapable higher than that. I design my juices to taste good on the setups I normally use. So stay with testing on what you normally vape on. After all you are looking for something that tastes great on that. Don't complicate matters with considering different setups until or if you start using a different one. The juice you finally settle on may taste just as good or better on it. It may taste good but different on a wide range of voltages or it may not. You will be lucky if it does because you won't have to redo your recipes to suit your newly preferred devices nor voltages.

Edit: I so agree with starting with your base with nic added. Make sure you not only like but know what that base tastes like without any flavoring. That is key.

 

[MotherNatural]

I so feel your pain, wife of odd ball. I have been struggling for weeks now trying to mix something that I simply consider vapable. I am a more than competent baker and I make a living working with my hands so I just keep thinking that this really shouldn't be so difficult. With deepest gratitude to a new friend as well as reading all these threads I've finally succeeded in coming up with not one…but two mixes that are vapable! Not wonderful mind you, but at least vapable. Now I can finally move on to tweaking them into something good. So hang in there. Success is right around the corner.

 

[Blueser]

The OP did say they were building their own coils, so there should be no complication of issues here. If you can rebuild a kanger coil, everything else is duck soup, easy peasey in comparison to trying to castrate a gnat on the kangers....

One thing tho...don't call a clone a KF, they aren't and the ones I've tried do not compare, what I notice is the clones lack the build quality to effectively create the vacuum that the Kayfuns are known for... Putting a Cadillac hood ornament on a Ford Pinto doesn't make it a Cadillac. I've bought and used most all the low end devices, PT's, Minis, iClears, Evods, Davids, Aspires, T3's and in my opinion they are mediocre on their best few hours before taste starts to drastically degenerate. I often hear people comparing a clone to a KF saying there is little difference but I don't recall hearing anyone that actually own's a KF that doesn't see a drastic improvement in the taste of their juice.

Not trying to start a device ...... contest....just saying

 

[Wingsfan0310]

I've read quite a few owners say that some of the clones were quite good in comparison and some terrible. I think the main problem is quality control. One can be great, the next one not so much. That all being said whether you by an original or clone, you can get a lemon. I do think the chances of getting a lemon is a lot higher with a clone though. I'll also add some brands of clones are quite a bit better than others. Just my

Cheers,
Steve

PS For full disclosure I have a KFL/Russian 91% Clone that works flawlessly. My buddy has an original after comparing ours he was so impressed he ordered one as a backup. If money was no object I would love to have an original too

 

[Blueser]

Wingsfan...agree...I have a clone mech, I won't call it a Nemesis but the manufacturer does...it works fine...but then it's a dang tube with pretty good threading, fire button contacts...it does what it's suppose to do so far.

 

[wllmc]

lol on a ten scale the real kayfun is 10 and the clone is a 9. ive tried many many many many devices. spent alot of time just hanging out at the local jvapes shop with a very knowledgeable and honest staff . I would never in a million years tell someone that they need to spend 200 dollars on an atomizer to get "the best vape" its 100 % false and a bit arrogant. I have vaped plenty of juices out of just about every high end rebuildable and mechanical / APV . just not true.

 

[cramptholomew]

lol on a ten scale the real kayfun is 10 and the clone is a 9. ive tried many many many many devices. spent alot of time just hanging out at the local jvapes shop with a very knowledgeable and honest staff . I would never in a million years tell someone that they need to spend 200 dollars on an atomizer to get "the best vape" its 100 % false and a bit arrogant. I have vaped plenty of juices out of just about every high end rebuildable and mechanical / APV . just not true.

This. So much this.

 

[MarkyD]

Hardware doesnt help the OP mix better juice, practice and experience through repeated failure does. Just to be fair Ive had some vendor-made mixes thatll make you go wow even on a 3-ohm cig-a-like. If your juices cant do this then I suggest you too need more practice, just like me, because even with all the gear Ive collected, Im still trying to get to that level which at least some professionals have obviously achieved. Throw whatever hardware you like at a poorly-crafted recipe and it still sucks.

 

[Blueser]

lol on a ten scale the real kayfun is 10 and the clone is a 9. ive tried many many many many devices. spent alot of time just hanging out at the local jvapes shop with a very knowledgeable and honest staff . I would never in a million years tell someone that they need to spend 200 dollars on an atomizer to get "the best vape" its 100 % false and a bit arrogant. I have vaped plenty of juices out of just about every high end rebuildable and mechanical / APV . just not true.

Ha...since you know so much about KF's you should at least know a KFL is not 200 dollars but rather $99 vs the higher price clone of around $55...arrogant?...carry on

 

[wllmc]

exactly

Hardware doesnt help the OP mix better juice, practice and experience through repeated failure does. Just to be fair Ive had some vendor-made mixes thatll make you go wow even on a 3-ohm cig-a-like. If your juices cant do this then I suggest you too need more practice, just like me, because even with all the gear Ive collected, Im still trying to get to that level which at least some professionals have obviously achieved. Throw whatever hardware you like at a poorly-crafted recipe and it still sucks.

 

[wllmc]

to oddballzwife. I think this got a bit off topic but it just proves the whole taste is subjective thing. Im no more right than blueser. it just matters what it is you like. just keep at it. you will find your way. all the information here is great. lots of good ideas to get you pointed in the right direction. just keep messing with your recipes and and single flavors. keep good coils and wicks , find a set up you like and vape happy lol

 

[MarkyD]

I too am saying keep practicing and dont hesitate to toss something out and try again. It comes gradually, youll get better, and eventually youll impress yourself, which in the end is all that matters. Im sure the OP's hardware will do just fine.

 

[wllmc]

That could be, but right now the setup I have is all I can have. I've spent all the money I can for now. I am using a Vision Spinner 1300 with a Kanger Mini Protank 2. I always keep my coils clean and have been rebuilding as well, so I know its not build up of gunk. I do want to buy another setup sometime in the near future, but that is going to be hard to pick! What does KFL stand for?

spare stuff is a must. and out of all this I would recommend the KFL or not KFL clone,clone ..?...but to go from what you have yess it will be 200 dollars plus. think. tank or whatever. wick, wire , ohm meter, mod of whatever shape or form, batteries, charger. probably stuff im forgetting. dont cheap out totally but nothing wrong with a clone.

 

[oddballzwife]

I so feel your pain, wife of odd ball. I have been struggling for weeks now trying to mix something that I simply consider vapable. I am a more than competent baker and I make a living working with my hands so I just keep thinking that this really shouldn't be so difficult. With deepest gratitude to a new friend as well as reading all these threads I've finally succeeded in coming up with not one…but two mixes that are vapable! Not wonderful mind you, but at least vapable. Now I can finally move on to tweaking them into something good. So hang in there. Success is right around the corner.

I am a good baker too, which is why I keep telling myself I can do this, so I think the baby steps advice I have gotten is probably right. I think I wanted to step right out making gourmet juices, but need to slow down and figure out what I don't like. I am also going to be more strict with making 0mg so that if I don't like it I am not wasting any nic on it and can just dump it.

 

[oddballzwife]

The OP did say they were building their own coils, so there should be no complication of issues here. If you can rebuild a kanger coil, everything else is duck soup, easy peasey in comparison to trying to castrate a gnat on the kangers....

Okay, this made me laugh! That is a good comparison LOL

 

[03FXDWG]

Skip through this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/336110-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread.html for lists of single flavor percentages for TFA flavors. Start at the end and go backward. It's been a little while since I've posted my list but I think someone else did recently.

I love TFA Strawberry Ripe, Juicy Peach, Pineapple & Nectarine at 10% all as standalones. I started them at 15% but as they aged and my taste buds recovered from 30+ years of smoking, the flavors got "louder" or stronger so I dialed them back. I don't use any sweetener in them, either. Blackberry is also good but it's even more potent. 5% is what I use for it and even then I prefer to just add a little into my lemonade or fruit punches. I mix all but a select few of my ADV's as stand-alones so if I want my Coco-mint more minty or more coconutty, I can change it on the fly. Peach Lemonade now--Strawberry lemonade tomorrow.

Maybe I never really had a "premium" e-liquid so I don't know what I'm missing but I will take my DIY's any day over the store bought e-liquids I have purchased. All but one (green apple--tasted like apple chapstick) were vape-able but nothing I couldn't make myself and tweak to my satisfaction. I don't feel like I have missed out on anything but I don't "do" tobacco flavors. I don't care for tobacco flavors myself and would have no idea how to tweak them to make them better. My solution is to ignore them--LOL!

 

[dannyv45]

I am a good baker too, which is why I keep telling myself I can do this, so I think the baby steps advice I have gotten is probably right. I think I wanted to step right out making gourmet juices, but need to slow down and figure out what I don't like. I am also going to be more strict with making 0mg so that if I don't like it I am not wasting any nic on it and can just dump it.

Using NIC is a big part of the flavor process. NIC influences the final mix throat hit wise and flavor wise. The key is making very small test batches of lets say 5 - 8mls. I myself use 10 ml. It's OK to make 0 NIC at first to hone in on the flavor concentration and when your close then the last few batches should be made with NIC.