Getting Headaches...any Suggestions?

[Desertfremen]

I am being careful to keep my nic level low because I was a chain smoker when I wasn't busy. I am a nurse and also suffer from migraines so have done alot of research on this. The reason for the headaches is probably the nicotine. Nicotine causes vasoconstriction of the blood vessels in your head. Biggest reason for me to be careful to keep my nic level low. I also find myself chain vaping. Suprise, Suprise since i had a tendency to chain smoke. I would get headaches when I chain smoked too musch too.

Are you sure you suffer from migraines? I've been a life long sufferer of these horrible headaches and have always been told that migraines are a different type of headache since the pain is caused my the blood vessels distending too much as opposed to constricting. High levels of nic are the only thing that has ever been able to effectively cut the frequency and severity of them for me and has never triggered one for me.

I do agree on the part about how too much nic for non sufferers would definitely cause a headache from the blood vessels being too constricted.

Or is my horrible english causing a misunderstanding again?

 

[Katya]

I have been thinking about the lactic acid buildup. Lack of oxygen. But it's sort of counterintuitive. In the body, lactic acid begins to show up in blood already at about 50% capacity. But why does it happen when you vape? I could understand chainsmoking, tar, hypoxic lungs unable to oxygenate the blood. But with vaping? Even chain vaping? Where is the hypoxia coming from. Cause again, you can't have lactic acid without the hypoxia. Like kimchi and sourkraut, you have to cut off oxygen supply. So what causes this? PG? How? Yes, it's PG mixed with well known poison, but still, it can't be worse than cigs, can it?

 

[Adrenalynn]

PG metabolizes: Propylene glycol → lactic acid → pyruvic acid → CO2 + water

(Or so I seem to remember. That's been forever ago. I'd have to look it up for sources)

 

[pcore]

Pardon me for going a little off topic here. I've had a few headaches since starting to vape, I wouldn't say more than normal. What I have noticed is that my voice has been cracking sometimes. Not horribly, but it does happen several times a day. Has anyone else noticed anything like that?

 

[Adrenalynn]

Propylene glycol undergoes metabolic oxidation to
pyruvic acid,acetic acid, lactic acid, and propionaldehyde
(Miller & Bazzano, 1965; Ruddick, 1972).

Propylene glycol (PIM 443)

 

[Adrenalynn]

pcore - I hate to sound like a broken record, but how's your fluid intake?

 

[Blaro]

Headaches, yeah, and insomnia, big time, but the more I control VG intake (I like a TINY bit to enhance vapor), the fewer headaches I have, and the more I lower my nic intake, the better I sleep.

 

[lonercom]

I gotta be the wiseguy here, sorry.

No, I thought better of it. (tired of being the thread killer)

If it's vaping or nicotine related, I think I would try some tweaking as others have mentioned. Diet, nic. intake, less time in front of the 'puter.

If you don't start feeling better by Monday, it might be time to see a doctor.

My body and mind seem to be changing in so many ways recently. Some good and some annoying (yawn). But I know my Doc. very well and trust his opinion first and completely.

Y'all are some of the best looking, intelligent people I know. Sometimes I wonder why you let me in here at all!

 

[Adrenalynn]

'Cause you're a bonefied member of the club you describe?

 

[5cardstud]

I googled propylene glycol and the wikipedia has that as an affect from pg.

 

[mwa102464]

hmmm, im getting the headaches too, also getting a little shaky at times, but the headaches are bad, I chain vape but still , I never got headaches like I am now and not in the spot im getting them, It has to be the nic intake doesnt it..???

 

[Katya]

Propylene glycol undergoes metabolic oxidation to
pyruvic acid,acetic acid, lactic acid, and propionaldehyde
(Miller & Bazzano, 1965; Ruddick, 1972).

Propylene glycol (PIM 443)

OK, did some reading. I didn't realize at first that we were talking about PG metabolites. What are the amounts we're inhaling? How many mg of PG are there in one carto? The acceptable daily intake seems to be up to 25 mg per kg of body weight. But that is of course PG ingested or injected, not vaped. But still, I don't think we're anywhere near that amount. All the concerns about possible acidosis, hypoglycaemia, seizures, stupor and cardiac irregularities apply to much, much higher doses. Of course, we're mixing it with a rather powerful poison... As we agreed, all these things will eventually be studied, but for now we have to help ourselves and each other and keep our eyes wide open.

I also ran all those other metabolites by my resident pulmonologist--he didn't seem concerned. He says a sugar molecule is a sugar molecule, it falls apart, it comes together again. In his educated opinion all these metabolites will eventually find each other and form a big glucose molecule along the way. They are all innocuous and present in our bodies at all times, in one form or another. Compared to cigarette smoke...those are just as risky as sugared water (and vinegar-acetic acid).

I feel better. This is fascinating, isn't it?





Estimated acceptable daily intake: up to 25 mg propylene
glycol per kg body weight (Seventeeth Report of the FAO/WHO
Expert Committee, 1974).

 

[Katya]

I agree...we are testing and learning ourselves.....in the absence of good studies.

BTW...my liver just fell out....sprouted legs, and scurried under the bed. Is my nic too high? What can I use as bait to get it out? It took my cat's spot under there and he looks .......

maxx, I'm worried about your liver. And your cat. What's your cat's name?

 

[Adrenalynn]

I agree, of course. And when I mention "acute acidosis", I'm not suggesting any inherently dangerous pH change, just simply a swing towards acidic away from normal range.

I went out to grab my bloodwork but it's not on the mantel where I thought I'd left it, so I need to find it and then scan it. After my own further reading of normal range, I wouldn't trust my memory of exactly numbers. The bar is in the red, though.

Still, as noted in my post - annecdotal.

I am interested to hear your pulmonologist's take. So in theory he's not jumping up and down anti-vaping. Of course, the nicotine is still a vasoconstrictor, so I can't imagine he's _happy_ about it. But the PG doesn't bother him (as the studies done since the 40's for inhaled PG would seem to agree with).

 

[Adrenalynn]

maxx, I'm worried about your liver. And your cat. What's your cat's name?

More importantly: What's your liver's name?

 

[Katya]

hmmm, im getting the headaches too, also getting a little shaky at times, but the headaches are bad, I chain vape but still , I never got headaches like I am now and not in the spot im getting them, It has to be the nic intake doesnt it..???

I don't know anything about headaches and shakes like that, but nic OD might be a culprit. If you're chainvaping (at what strength?), stop. Drink water, have a bite of carbs, go get some air and if this doesn't get better, see a doctor.

Honest, I smoked for 30+ years but can't tolerate anything higher than 11 mg. I read about people chainvaping 36+, hi maxx, and living to tell about it. Beats me. I almost choked to death on an 11 mg Cowboy.8-o

 

[Katya]

I agree, of course. And when I mention "acute acidosis", I'm not suggesting any inherently dangerous pH change, just simply a swing towards acidic away from normal range.

I went out to grab my bloodwork but it's not on the mantel where I thought I'd left it, so I need to find it and then scan it. After my own further reading of normal range, I wouldn't trust my memory of exactly numbers. The bar is in the red, though.

Still, as noted in my post - annecdotal.

I am interested to hear your pulmonologist's take. So in theory he's not jumping up and down anti-vaping. Of course, the nicotine is still a vasoconstrictor, so I can't imagine he's _happy_ about it. But the PG doesn't bother him (as the studies done since the 40's for inhaled PG would seem to agree with).

He's not anti-vaping, he thinks it just might be a holy grail of smoking cessation. He couldn't care less about PG or VG, he doesn't even care about the nic. Nicotine is a stimulant, just like caffeine, and it actually can be very beneficial (dementia, Alzheimer's, etc.) It's a perfect recreational drug, no impairment. He has problems with tar, arsenic, carbon monoxide...

He actually is happy. That the analogs are disappearing from my life.

 

[maxx]

I vape 36 and 47.....but neither are chaining. I go high concentration for that very reason...don't want to be vaping all day long. All this talk of headaches and shakes and people blowing through 4 or 5 carts a day...hell if I vaped just distilled water as much as some I would get those symptoms.

The cat's name is maxximilian (maxx)......



......well you don't think I would use my real name out here on the net do ya? Where's the fun in that? Let the cat get blamed.

The liver has no name....and aint getting one until he comes out. I drizzled a trail of vodka to a box trap. We'll see.....

 

[Katya]

More importantly: What's your liver's name?

hehehehehe

 

[RIAFlight25]

@kimmy

I have been getting headaches quite a bit as well lately. They arent horrible or to the point I need to take anything for them, they are just kind of numb and obnoxious.

After reading these posts, I finally realized that I have been vaping more than usual. My company has had a slow month for flying, so Im sitting home a ton more than usual. In fact In the last 19 days I have only worked 1 day from Chicago to LA and back. So Ive got more "Vape time" on my hands. Thank god I get paid regardless of flight hours!

Guess its cuttin down my vaping and mixing in some 0 nic for me!

Safe Travels,
RIAFlight25