Got my first e-cig, and a couple questions

[solarisx]

I got my 510 manual a couple days ago, and I love it . I don't feel like I need to smoke cigarettes anymore.

I used to smoke 6-8 light cigs a day. I read in the forums that medium smokers are better to order 12-24mg e-liquid. I'm not sure if this is a good guide, since mg specifies the percentage of nicotine. So I think if you smoke regular cigs, higher mg is best, and if you smoke lighter cigs, then lower mg is better. It's not the number of cigarettes you smoke a day, but the type of cigarette that should determine the mg. Am I correct?

Also a couple tests are done to identify the type of compounds used in e-liquid. All of the studies (mostly done in UK) specify that the e-liquid is toxic for skin due to the percentage of nicotine. Now, because the cartridge is the closest part to mouth, small amount of liquid can be soaked into the mouth and on the lips by each puff, which is a concern to me. I was thinking that use of cartomizers might reduce the amount of liquid soaked into mouth just due to the fact that there's an spacing between the filler and the mouth piece. What do you guys think?

Thanks

 

[Automaton]

The nicotine level a person needs does not always correlate with how many, or what kind, of cigarettes they smoked. For example, I know a 10-a-day ultra-light smoker who used 24mg juice, and a 40-a-day full-flavor smoker who uses 6 to 12mg juice.

The reason for this may be that there are other addictive substances in cigarettes besides nicotine. And some people may *also* be addicted to those other substances. So they may need higher nicotine to compensate for it, or lower if they aren't addicted to those things.

It's trial and error, basically. There's no way to accurately predict what nicotine strength is right for you.

I'd like to see these British studies you refer to. I have read both the FDA and the New Zealand studies on e-cigs, and never saw anything about juice being "toxic" for the skin.

There's nothing in e-juice that is toxic. PG and VG is in things you consume, and put on your skin - soap, shampoo, medical inhalers, certain foods... it's not toxic.

The flavoring used in e-juice is the same stuff used in baking. It's not toxic.

And while it's true that nicotine can be absorbed through the skin, the levels that are in e-juice are not dangerous.

And that's all that's in e-juice. It is not toxic for your skin at all. I've had bottles come open, and spilled it all over myself to no ill effect (I use 18mg, by the way).

 

[Sgt.Taz]

I think it really depends on how you react to the nicotine. I've used varying amounts throughout my testing and trying new flavors. The first 5 days was hard on me and I used higher amounts to stay off the analogues. Now I'm using 18 mg and if I get that craving use 24 mg in a flavor I like.There is a million different factors that would determine your amount (time frame of use, your body type, ect)
As for the Carts, honestly I've had more liquid draw out of the carts than the tips of my 510. I'm not sure if it's because of the way I was drawing or refilling. It's all a learning curve I suppose and once you get some juice in your mouth it keeps you from ever wanting to do it again Best of luck in getting your vaping dialed in and I hope it goes well for you.

 

[gice]

Welcome solarisx!

As far as the nic levels go, that'll likely be a trial and error thing. i was a heavy smoker so i starting with 34mg juices and not vaping all that much.
Just a few hits per hour and i'm good. Now i'm looking to get straight VG to cut/dilute a few of my favorite juices. So, start high and dilute as needed.

i'm dripping and not using cartomizers - it's a hassle - and although i'm carefull, i still manage to get juice on my lips. But i wipe it off quickly. Just takes practice...

If you're in Socal, join our group: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/groups/southern-cali-vapors.html

 

[Sponge Bobiwan]

I started out with the max nic since I was a 2 pack a day smoker, but soon discovered that that was too much nic for me as it gave me some acid reflux fits. I ended up buying different (lower) nic levels and experimenting. The "trial and error" answer is about the best answer.

 

[100thMonkey]

I was a 2 PAD smoker. I started with 6mg nic and had some withdrawals for about 3 days. However, I was glad because it was going to happen sooner or later. Now, I'm happy with my 6mg and moving towards 0 nic. The same way I eliminated the analogs: smoked analogs and vaped for a couple of days and then all I wanted was vaping. Now I'm vaping my 6mg and alternating with 0 nic. It is trial and error with all of this. Good Fortune!

 

[jmaul99]

If getting juice on your lips is a concern then use a drip tip instead of carts. You can either use a drip tip on an atty and take the drip tip off everytime you drip to ensure juice doesn't get on your lips. The best method, however, would be to use cartomizers and take the cap and rubber piece underneath the cap off and then fill the cartomizer and put the drip tip on. You can discard the cap and rubber piece because they are not needed. These are the 2 methods I use and have not gotten juice on my lips or in my mouth since I discovered these 2 methods.

 

[solarisx]

Wow, this is a really active forum. Thanks for the tips/info guys. I have a 24mg Marl bottle from madvapers, and it kinda makes me dizzy, so I'm switching to 12-16 mg.
I will try drip tip, and also the methods jmaul99 suggested, and see if it helps. Also using a detachable filter like the ones used in tobacco pipes could stop the liquid getting in the mouth. I have not figured out a way for it yet.

As for the tests, refer to this post: http://www.............com/showthread.php?t=2297
UPDATE: Ok, this forum does not let me post links to another vapor forum, but search for "Actual studies of nicotine liquid/vapor" in google and you'll find the link.

or see this document http://www.e-cigs.co.uk/docs/E249A.pdf

Basically it says that the 36mg liquid had 9.97% Nic which is categorized as very toxic in contact with skin. There are a couple other reports in US also, and one from Johnson Creek, but the document only states the nicotine percentage in the vapor and not in the liquid (which has been omitted from the document). A nicotine concentration of 1% to 7% is toxic for skin. 36 mg-->3.5%, and 12mg-->1.2%. Despite that, I am quite sure that e-cigs are healthier than regular cigs, but I'm also trying to understand the possible health hazards, and find out ways to eliminate them.

By the way, I just did the PTB mod with Tazo tea bags (metal box), and it's awesome.

 

[Automaton]

Well, I guess define "toxic." All drugs are toxins. That's kind of how you define a drug. Nicotine is a drug, and thus a toxin. In behavior, it is very similar to caffiene.

You can adsorb nicotine through your skin, and thus you can get "toxin" through your skin. But it's no more toxic than it would be when inhaled.

 

[tdh]

You will have to find the right concentration through trial and error. If it is too strong, you will start to get side affects like headache, and if its too low, you will want a cigarette. I have found that I use different mixes for different situations. For example, I use a high concentration, while in the evening, I use a somewhat lower concentration. Its very subjective, but trying to guesstimate a starting concentration from the type of analog should work much better than the number smoked.

At the concentrations you are handling, the danger is minimal. Just don't get it in your eyes, and I wouldn't recommend using it as an intimate lubricant or anything.

I deal with concentrations up to 54mg/ml, and don't bother to wear gloves. It can get a little uncomfortable if you get a bunch on your skin, but small droplets on your lips and in your mouth basically just taste bad and might sting a little.

 

[The Big Chief]

I will always recommend sticking with nicotine level pertaining to your cigs or higher to start. Without the chemical boosters, you dont feel the nicotine as well for first couple weeks. Also, your habits will be the same for a while. As you adjust your habits, you can adjust your nicotine level. Its best to keep it simple and have to much available, rather than too little if your serious about kicking tobacco.

 

[The Big Chief]

At the concentrations you are handling, the danger is minimal. Just don't get it in your eyes, and I wouldn't recommend using it as an intimate lubricant or anything.

.

By far my favorite quote to date on ecf...

 

[solarisx]

at the concentrations you are handling, the danger is minimal. Just don't get it in your eyes, and i wouldn't recommend using it as an intimate lubricant or anything.

lmao )

 

[CtryBoy]

At the concentrations you are handling, the danger is minimal. Just don't get it in your eyes, and I wouldn't recommend using it as an intimate lubricant or anything.

Yeah, I think that pretty much covers the do's and dont's on that account.

Also along with his humor he did a pretty good job of explaining the experimental self dosing nature of these devices. Start too high or vape too much your body will tell you dont vape enough or too low a dose you'll be twitching for a cig although possibly not as much so if you really want to be at that level could possibly make it work for you vaping a little more vs upping the nic.

No perfect solution for keeping juice out of your mouth except not overfilling, even then a drop in the wrong place can always get popped or sucked into your mouth. Main concern is any funky taste, beyond that it's up to you how much effort should go in getting it out of your mouth. Only realistic problem with skin exposure would be a leaky bottle of relatively high strength liquid leaking in your pocket without your knowledge, even then not sure how many ml it would take to actually give you nic poisoning but only way I see anyone getting exposed to enough long enough to absorb enough nic through skin exposure.

This is a poison in it's truest sense. Used properly it's safe. If you do not treat it with knowledgeable care you can have problems. But paranoia is unnecessary, just a bit of thinking before acting.

 

[Automaton]

Yup. I have 100mg liquid for making DIY. Do I wear gloves when I handle it? You bet. Would I get sick if I got it on my skin, and sicker if I tried to vape it? You bet. 10% nicotine is seriously, seriously dangerous stuff.

But when I water it down to 18mg (1.8%), it's pretty harmless to me, as someone who has a nicotine tolerance. I literally have spilled most of a 6ml bottle of 18mg on myself, and felt perfectly fine.

The 18mg I vape would probably kill my cat, and make a child seriously ill. But to me, and to most nicotine addicts, it's relatively harmless in that concentration. Even an adult non-smoker with no tolerance probably wouldn't feel too bad if they got some on their skin.

 

[oettinger]

Just don't get it in your eyes,

I got a good drop flung in my eye before. It sure didn't feel good, but I am not blind, and didn't die.

I have seen MANY people drip the juice on the back of there hand, and lick it to taste out the flavor before they vape it. I haven't seen any of them have nic poisoning either.

PLUS, if leaking carts were a killer, then we would ALL be dead. I am sure nicotine is a toxin, but it doesn't hold a candle to the Arsenic Benzene or Cadmium in tobacco cigarettes.

 

[solarisx]

I am not worried about a leaky bottle, since I don't carry one with me. I haven't looked into making DIY, how much money does it save for you? There are many stores who sell e liqs for cheap.

I also noticed that if I clean the outer wall of the part of cartridge that's inside the atty (just where the air holes are), I get less liquid, almost nothing in my mouth.

One last question: The 510 does not produce enough vapor. I actually like to see lots of vapor coming out of my mouth. For the nicotine, I don't care, this 24mg is already killing me. It's too strong, but not enough vapor. Would you recommend me switching to VG, or buying a different e-cig? I cannot drip, I want something portable.
I think part of the problem is due to the small capacity of the 510 batts (180mah), and that the voltage drops fast with a couple puffs. So I was thinking of getting a Riva with 750mah batts. Would it increase vapor production?

 

[FireHorse]

I just got my first kit today. I smoke 1 to 1.5 PAD of menthol light 100s and have done so for 21 years. I got a very high 34mg juice to start off with. After the first few vapor hits, I found out it was way too high for me and suffered the ill effects of too much nicotine! Oooops!!!

Tomorrow I'll be going out to get some VG to dilute the juice. I'll also be getting small containers to hold the mix. LOL

 

[Etch]

and i had the exact opposite of firehorse's experience. Started at 18mg...not even close to strong enough. I basically vaped all day long and still craved a smoke. Meanwhile...i have to wait for my stronger juice to arrive now...gah. Waiting for shipping is quickly becoming my nightmare.

 

[CtryBoy]

I am not worried about a leaky bottle, since I don't carry one with me. I haven't looked into making DIY, how much money does it save for you? There are many stores who sell e liqs for cheap.

I also noticed that if I clean the outer wall of the part of cartridge that's inside the atty (just where the air holes are), I get less liquid, almost nothing in my mouth.

One last question: The 510 does not produce enough vapor. I actually like to see lots of vapor coming out of my mouth. For the nicotine, I don't care, this 24mg is already killing me. It's too strong, but not enough vapor. Would you recommend me switching to VG, or buying a different e-cig? I cannot drip, I want something portable.
I think part of the problem is due to the small capacity of the 510 batts (180mah), and that the voltage drops fast with a couple puffs. So I was thinking of getting a Riva with 750mah batts. Would it increase vapor production?

DIY is a PITA unless you have the right equipment. As long as you arent paying more than $1/ml max you can save yourself some headaches and up front equip expenses. Plus you have many more options to try since you dont have to worry about finding the perfect recipe, just trying different flavors. Remember you are saving time and frustration going with 'store bought' anything so savings becomes relative unless you just enjoy mixing and trying different concoctions of your own making. Can be done on the cheap, but only if you already know what you are doing. Otherwise DIY can become it's own expensive hobby. Worth it to some, but wouldnt recommend it until you figure out what you like, dont like about current offerings. Definitely a big fan of 100% VG, although part of me wishes I didnt need to 'waste' the vape but in some ways we are dancing with the one who brung us trying to match the analog experience. Got to admit it's more satisfying to see the cloud than to wonder if you got any vape off your dying battery. Definitely need to upgrade your battery for longevity. I started with the 280 mAh MEGA 510's seeing no excuse for not getting the biggest battery available for whatever form factor you like. Especially since the prices are almost the same or even cheaper depending on which vendor you are looking at. If you go with the Riva/etc think they have a 900mAh available so dont sell yourself short if you are going to upgrade get all you can. Bigger battery doesnt mean bigger vape (unless you get a LR to go with it), but it will make the regular amount of vape for longer. You must define what you have and where the problems exist to find a solution. If you never get enough vape from reg 510, bigger battery wont solve the problem. More VG might be the bomb, but maybe a cartomizer is the answer, again you figure out what you have and what you like dont like about current setup to guide you to your next step. Rinse and repeat until you find your perfect vape.

If you are interested in DIY, you can start simply by getting Vegetable Glycerin USP at Walgreens/etc to dilute your current 24mg to a more vapable level. Most pharmacies also have a medicine syringe with a cap that will fit the bottle and allow you to measure the VG easily without a mess. The effort needed to figure out how to cut 24mg to 18mg to etc would give you some idea of what DIY involves. Of course you can always buy lower nic and keep the 24mg for stronger urges. Would also give you some idea what more VG will do for you. Can also be vaped straight to give you an idea of what 100% VG would be like. Dont have to actually mix anything. Fill a small bottle with the straight VG and dilute by adding a few drops when you top off cart to dilute it although dilutes flavor as well. Gotta love the endless possibilities vaping opens up.