Government Regulation of What?

[the_antisheep]

What precisely can the government regulate with the product? I hear all this talk about banning "e-cigarette" sales, but what EXACTLY does that mean? Does this mean the device comprised of it's parts becomes illegal? If so, how is it that crack pipes and bongs are sold in tobacco stores under different names?

Has anyone thought of renaming the product to something the government can't screw with, like a "vapor pipe" or a "vapor delivery device?" Does that effectively neuter the government?

As far as the nicotine liquid, OK, I could see that being regulated at some point to ensure correct measurements and truth in product advertisement with a *potentially* dangerous substance, but what about the non-nicotine liquids? Can they realistically ban PG or the flavors added to the PG?

I'm just curious how powerful the government legislation is, and what *realistic* impact it can have to those determined? Not to undermine the efforts to fight for this product, as the government pisses me off to no end with this anti-ecig, pro-tobacco propaganda, but do they really have much power in the end, other than to regulate the nicotine itself?

 

[the_antisheep]

I just realized it would be detrimental to this site to rename the product for legal reasons as they would have to become www.vapor-pipe-forum.com ...

 

[Happy Domino38]

What precisely can the government regulate with the product? I hear all this talk about banning "e-cigarette" sales, but what EXACTLY does that mean? Does this mean the device comprised of it's parts becomes illegal? If so, how is it that crack pipes and bongs are sold in tobacco stores under different names?

Has anyone thought of renaming the product to something the government can't screw with, like a "vapor pipe" or a "vapor delivery device?" Does that effectively neuter the government?

As far as the nicotine liquid, OK, I could see that being regulated at some point to ensure correct measurements and truth in product advertisement with a *potentially* dangerous substance, but what about the non-nicotine liquids? Can they realistically ban PG or the flavors added to the PG?

I'm just curious how powerful the government legislation is, and what *realistic* impact it can have to those determined? Not to undermine the efforts to fight for this product, as the government pisses me off to no end with this anti-ecig, pro-tobacco propaganda, but do they really have much power in the end, other than to regulate the nicotine itself?

They're the GOVERNMENT, they can do whatever they WANT to do.

Unfortunately.

BUT, that being said, and I've said it before, there WILL be ways to get these things! During prohibition times, there were 'speak-easys'..now, they'll be 'smoke-easies'.

Although, it DOES piss me off to think that, at some point in time, I may have to be acting like a CRACK HEAD to get parts/liquid for my HARMLESS PV.

 

[the_antisheep]

They're the GOVERNMENT, they can do whatever they WANT to do.

Unfortunately.

BUT, that being said, and I've said it before, there WILL be ways to get these things! During prohibition times, there were 'speak-easys'..now, they'll be 'smoke-easies'.

Although, it DOES piss me off to think that, at some point in time, I may have to be acting like a CRACK HEAD to get parts/liquid for my HARMLESS PV.

I've already started looking for alternative ways to construct the liquid if this goes down. Most of it seems straight forward except for the nicotine part. That isn't something you buy at your local supermarket

Oh, and I'll be right there with ya... Only I'll be trying to make the "crack" in my basement...

 

[gashin]

I think they really want to regulate it because of the minor issue.

 

[the_antisheep]

I think they really want to regulate it because of the minor issue.

If that were truly the sole agenda, then they wouldn't be passing a bill banning the sale to adults in NY.

 

[Chazzman]

I think they really want to regulate it because of the minor issue.

No offence there but ya think they really care about minors!!!???
Nothing to do with it.
It's all about the tobacco companies, special interests and money!

 

[the_antisheep]

//quotes from Wikipedia and responses

The presence of trace amounts of TSNAs in electronic cigarette vapor was previously documented in an October 2008 analysis performed by Health New Zealand Ltd. and funded by the electronic cigarette manufacturer Ruyan. However, unlike the FDA study, this study conducted detailed quantitative analysis and concluded that carcinogens and toxicants are present only below harmful levels. The final conclusion of the safety report is: "Based on the manufacturer’s information, the composition of the cartridge liquid is not hazardous to health, if used as intended."

Why would the FDA study have not included a detailed quantitative analysis? They had an agenda. The agenda was to find something potentially harmful and call for a ban (or give the states/Fed gvmt the ammo to call for these bans). You know our government is partially funded by the tobacco industry through taxes, and the other part through the medical industry that gets most of your money when you go in for chemotherapy, right?

Food and Drug Administration (USA)

In May 2009, the US FDA's Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis tested the contents of cartridges by two vendors. Diethylene glycol was detected in one of the eighteen cartridges. In addition, tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs) were detected in all of the cartridges from one brand and two of the other. Further concerns were raised over inconsistent amounts of nicotine delivered when drawing on the device.[19] In July 2009, the FDA issued a press release discouraging the use of electronic cigarettes and repeating previously stated concerns that electronic cigarettes may be marketed to young people and lack appropriate health warnings.[20]

The FDA's study was reviewed in July 2009 by scientific consulting firm Exponent, Inc., in a report commissioned by the manufacturer of one of the electronic cigarettes tested by the FDA. Some of the criticisms in Exponent's report are poor standards of documentation and analysis. Exponent lists previous studies that have detected TSNA levels in FDA-approved nicotine replacement therapy products comparable to those the FDA detected in their study, and objects to the FDA making no comparisons to such products in their analysis of electronic cigarettes. Ultimately the review concludes that the FDA's study did not support the claims of potential adverse health effects from the use of electronic cigarettes.[21]

What, no quantitative studies? The study did not support the claims of potential adverse health affects, yet they are leading the wagon in banning the product? Why have they not supported their claims TO THIS FORKIN DAY? Do you REALLY think they ever will, or will the U.S. just get ban happy and try to sweep us under the rug so they don't lose their tobacco revenue? Can you guess where my bet is placed?

[edit] World Health Organization

The World Health Organization proclaimed in September 2008 that it does not consider the electronic cigarette to be a legitimate smoking cessation aid, and demanded that marketers immediately remove from their materials any suggestions that the WHO considers electronic cigarettes safe and effective.[15] The WHO states that to its knowledge, "no rigorous, peer-reviewed studies have been conducted showing that the electronic cigarette is a safe and effective nicotine replacement therapy. WHO does not discount the possibility that the electronic cigarette could be useful as a smoking cessation aid." WHO Tobacco Free Initiative director ad interim Douglas Bettcher states, "If the marketers of the electronic cigarette want to help smokers quit, then they need to conduct clinical studies and toxicity analyses and operate within the proper regulatory framework. Until they do that, WHO cannot consider the electronic cigarette to be an appropriate nicotine replacement therapy, and it certainly cannot accept false suggestions that it has approved and endorsed the product."
[edit] Health New Zealand Ltd. study

So the WHO does not consider the product suitable NRT, and states that clinical studies have not been performed? How about this forum? How many success stories are told here EVERY DAY?

Your government doesn't give a DAMN about the welfare of it's people. This is blood money and being paid through the addiction and death of millions.

Never assume your government is looking out for your better interest, especially when they have more to gain (or nothing to gain) by not looking out for you.

 

[JoeD4]

Well, I guess it's time to stock up. WAY up. on atty's, batts, and empty carts. Maybe some 100mg nic juice. VG and PG is available enough and distilled water. So are flavorings. Someone suggested making "snus tea" to get the nic out. Or maybe I'll just lock myself in my apartment for a week to detox from the nicotine. Maybe I can stockpile enough juice and PV parts to last long enough for me to gradually reduce the nic content. My plans A,B,C and D. lol

 

[Poeia]

I think you're dealing with a combination of motives:

The FDA wants to keep Big Pharma happy and it wants to consolidate it's power over nicotine products.

Politicians a) want to protect people's health; b) believe the bull the FDA and organizations like ASH are dishing out; c) want to show their constituents that they are taking active measures to protect them; d) want to make sure they continue to get contributions from Big Tobacco and Big Pharma; e) want to keep the cigarette excise tax revenue rolling in or f) some combination of the above.

But the bottom line is that all politicians want to get reelected and, if they thought it help, they'd be perfectly willing to tie all of us to trees and throw nicotine darts at us.

 

[Ast_Isis]

Well, I guess it's time to stock up. WAY up. on atty's, batts, and empty carts. Maybe some 100mg nic juice. VG and PG is available enough and distilled water. So are flavorings. Someone suggested making "snus tea" to get the nic out. Or maybe I'll just lock myself in my apartment for a week to detox from the nicotine. Maybe I can stockpile enough juice and PV parts to last long enough for me to gradually reduce the nic content. My plans A,B,C and D. lol

Here is a link to one of the snus extraction theads.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cco-flavoring-nicotine-extraction-method.html

 

[quakereject]

What precisely can the government regulate with the product?

Profit.

If they're not getting a piece of it, they don't want it to exist until it's in a form that they can exploit it. Even more so because it's primarily sold on the internet. Big Gov. doesn't like the internets, they're scary and give people access to whatever they desire.

 

[Nicotine]

I think they really want to regulate it because of the minor issue.

The secret of making something special to minors is to make it illegal. Perhaps a campaign to stop selling nicotine gum is in order. As we all know kids just love their gum. So surely this product is only in place to attract kids to the joys of Nicotine. It has been scientifically proven* that gum leads to smoking.








* The term scientifically proven is used figuratively and imaginatively and in no way states or implies actual evidence for any claims.

 

[smokin n jokin]

New York has one of the highest cigarette taxes in the nation. Does it surprise you that they would be the first to ban an alternative. If you think you are addicted to nicotine that's nothing compared to the addiction that New York state has for cigarette taxes.

 

[CaptJay]

Really, an enterprising political party could make a TON of capital with the slogan 'New York wants to smokers to die' and oust the current encumbents.
Its a really bad move to target normal everyday Americans in ones political (cash grab) campaign - Americans typically don't stir themeselves for much these days - terrorism gets them going, as does anything anti-american, but otherwise they will tend to sit and wait and see. The English are similar so Im not making too many 'wrong' value judgements here.
But - when they ARE stirred to action - Watch out! They aren't a small voice, and they can bring administrations to their knees when properly motivated.
Most of them can see quite clearly that this ban is nothing more than the message 'we want your money and aren't particualrly bothered if you die in order for us to get it'.
It ha nothing to do with minors. If NY were concenrned about that theyd be after COcaCOla and their caffeine rich, aimed at minors drinks.
Lets take a quick peek at caffiene
Caffeine stimulates the central nervous system and can produce restlessness, headaches, and irritability. caffeine also elevates your heart rate and blood pressure.
What does that sound like to you?
Oh yes..nicotine.
Wheres the ban on that stuff for minors eh?
Oh right - not heavily taxed so no-one cares.

 

[jeanblackwood]

I'm sure nicotine extract videos will be popping up on Utube very shortly as nicotine is also found in veggies .yes veggies such as potatoes and eggplant . They are going to start taxing soda . Next will be coffee any addictive foods I suppose . The cigarette tax went real well . Why not ? anyway they can to get money its almost like they are desperate for tax dollars. Is someone foreclosing on the US and they haven't told us yet ?

 

[StormFinch]

The following link is to an online pamphlet from an arm of the Libertarian Party and was published and revised in the 1990 and 1999 respectively. I found it during a further search on the Sensor Pad mentioned in one of Bill Godshall's posts. If the information within is indeed factual, I'm horribly afraid that this is what we are up against with the FDA:
ISIL -- Death By Regulation: The Price We Pay for the FDA

 

[the_antisheep]

That's what I love about these forums. Level heads, with good perspective

I should try it some time and lower my blood pressure.

While it doesn't exactly fit my vision of blood sucking vampires out to slowly kill the American people for blood money, the perspectives presented here are logical. It is still unfortunate, however, that the FDA regulates and sits on things as they do. Many Americans will continue to die in the name of health, and many of our freedoms (like vaping) will be needlessly stripped from us.

From all of my studies, I have gathered that vaping is "relatively harmless," minus the nicotine, delivers far less nicotine than an "analog" per inhale at any strength, and no matter what way you look at it, is thousands of times better for you than any analog on the market. Meanwhile, you will find bloggers who key on to the media hype originating from the FDA's initial analysis without actually studying the facts of what the FDA was actually reporting. Public perception is 50% of the battle as this is what your legislators see. When you google "ecigarettes safe" and come up with this site at the top of the list: Ethic Soup: Hey, Hey, FDA, Whaddaya Say: Are E-Cigarettes Safe, Okay? that pushes the hysteria caused by the FDA's misinterpreted findings and attacks this product in multiple blogs without opportunity for rebuttal, that definitely does not help our cause.

Regardless, it is to be expected that government will strip it from us for reasons stated in this thread, and those of us that live to vape will have to find a community to keep it alive in the underground.

 

[the_antisheep]

As a matter of fact, I'd challenge anyone to find one thing positive about our choice anywhere using this search: e cigarettes safe - Google Search

But then after reading through the blogs and news outlets, tell me which one of those actually have hard evidence or a case study proving the harmful nature of vaping?

 

[chrisl317]

What we need are more Edgar Friendlys like us! Someone here will get the reference.