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Greek Cardiologist studies vaping vs smoking - Interview on VapeTeam show this Wednesday

Discussion in 'Vaping TV and Radio' started by NebulaBrot, May 11, 2012.

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  1. fuzzione

    fuzzione Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 11, 2012
    GTA Ontario
    I'm actually perplexed this presentation hasn't been one of the most discussed subjects on ECF. Hopefully more people will discover this fascinating study and milk it for all it's worth. The information could represent formidable ammunition for our cause in the right hands, at the right time.

    One of my favorite quotes from this most learned and brave individual... "it is an ethical crime" ....on the topic of banning ecigarettes. Quite powerful coming from the medical community.

    Well done Dimitri. Please thank Dr. Farsalinas from all of us overseas. I would also express to him 'Yiasou Levendi.' I'm convinced he is heaven-sent to us.
     
  2. JENerationX

    JENerationX Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 25, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    WOW.... I didn't think I'd sit through that whole thing, but I couldn't stop watching. Dr. Farsalinas is fantastic. I think the most telling thing about this is that after he had data from 18 vapers, he decided to vape instead of smoking himself. I wish more doctors were open to the DATA. I think too many get caught up in the "nicotene is bad" thing and don't look at the "real world" as Dr. Farsalinas said. I don't think anyone would smoke, vape, chew the gum, use the snus, slap on a patch, or take chantix if we could have just snapped our fingers and stopped smoking. Unfortunately, it's not that easy. I know a few people that have gone to rehab for addictions they say were easier to kick than cigarettes.

    One was up to 2 packs a day when he got out of rehab. He tried the gum, the patch, and the snus, but they didn't address the physical habit of hand to mouth and inhalation. I handed him one of my Volt X2 batteries, a clearomizer, and a bottle of liquid and told him to give it a shot just for when he couldn't smoke to take the edge off. He came back 2 days later and we ordered him a kit. He's about 2 weeks in and has a half a pack of cigs he never finished and doesn't think he will. That's the real world.
     
  3. LeDean

    LeDean Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 14, 2012
    Tennessee
    It was very long, but amazing. I believe he lectured for a solid 2 hours. There were LOTS and LOTS of charts!
     
  4. LeDean

    LeDean Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 14, 2012
    Tennessee
    I've pasted the link to this everywhere! I think the whole community should be buzzing and eagerly anticipating August!
     
  5. LeDean

    LeDean Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 14, 2012
    Tennessee
    Good things take time! We loved it!!!
     
  6. Kurt

    Kurt Quantum Vapyre ECF Veteran

    Sep 16, 2009
    Philadelphia
    This needs a big bump. I just found and watched this show. Not sure how I missed it until now, but May and June were crazy busy for me.

    Dimitris, in my opinion this is the best and most important vaping show yet done, in terms of the safety and physiological impact of vaping vs smoking. Three huge and sustained cheers for you, Vape Team, and especially Dr. K. The work Dr. K did and cited is a detailed tour de force of almost all aspects of vaping that we have all been wondering about. He was so masterful at combining studies of many other researchers, so intelligent about how he chose his sample groups, so technologically advanced with his echo imaging (have never seen this until now), and so passionate about negating the silly and threatening gov't rhetoric. I am truly blown away.

    And so very happy! He answered so many questions I have had since starting vaping, and so well! As a chemist, I have long suspected that while we may go through milliliters of e-juice a day, if we are vaping with a device meant to produce a lot of visible vapor, we are getting but a small fraction of the nicotine present in the liquid...unless of course we hold our breath after taking a hit. And the physiological risk of vaping a clean and pure e-juice (no TSNAs from sloppy nic extraction) are so negligible as to be a non-issue. This aspect I did not know, and it was always in the back of my mind. "Well it ain't as bad a smoking analogs" never cut it for me completely. On the subject of health and safety his presentation was a validating and thunderous slam dunk.

    I am also completely in agreement with him with what he says about flavors, and I was really happy when Lou asked about this. Flavors are, in fact, the biggest uncertainty we have in vaping, and there are thousands of flavor compounds with a huge variety of chemical properties, many of which are completely unknown in terms of long-term inhalation. Most are probably safe, but recipes can be made from many different compounds (strawberry flavoring is actually 50+ different chemicals), and we simply do not know how they affect us. Focusing on one or two, like diacetyl, and thinking that removing that flavoring will make all right is simply very naive thinking. I have been doing what he does for a long time now: DIY, VG, unflavored or very minimal flavoring. Besides, flavor perception is very fickle. It's so easy and normal to saturate taste and olfactory centers with too much flavor. I vape unflavored 90% of the time, and then when I vape something with 2% flavoring (normal flavors, not the new concentrated ones), that flavor is so pleasant, and not heavy like most commercial juices are.

    In fact, this video and presentation was so good, so uplifting for me, and so important for the vaping consumers and industry, that it suddenly makes all the other videos of crazy PVs, variable voltage, tanks, etc, even better than they were before...because it is now scientifically shown: go ahead and vape, it will do you no harm!

    And I think I'm going to get a Lava Tube now. Talk about an endorsement! I wonder if sales for this mod have increased since you aired this.

    This is the best thing I have seen in vaping media yet. You, the Team, and especially Dr. K, have validated the entire technology. The only thing that would make this better, in terms of the science, is that it is peer reviewed and published in a reputable journal. That it has been accepted for an oral presentation at a huge cardio conference is excellent. Perhaps he will inform us about the response and interest he gets.

    This video should be a sticky! Perhaps it should be further edited as Dr. K does repeat himself. Or perhaps it could be divided into smaller parts. I know this would be more work, but I think it is that important for all to be able to see this easily.

    You have made my vaping 100x more pleasurable than it was before seeing this. A million thanks, Dimitris! :thumbs:
     
  7. classwife

    classwife Admin Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Thank you Kurt...also moving to Vaping TV and Radio
     
  8. chewie

    chewie Full Member Verified Member

    Did I hear the doctor say that at this Medical Congress in Europe coming this August, he and his colleagues would be given 15 minutes to make an oral and PowerPoint presentation? He's going to have to start working on condensing his presentation there. I have every confidence he can, but I would hate for him to be cutoff, before he gets every important point of the presentation made. Of course I am certain he said there would be other methods of making information available during the Congress as well, as not everyone will have the opportunity to make oral presentations, and many 1000s of other studies would be presented in "other formats" as well, as he explained.

    Do you think an Amerikan doctor would have enough sense to test experienced vapors, who know how to take a longer puff to get the nicotine satiation we do, than the quick puffs that smokers inexperienced at vaping take? That attention to detail was so telling of a freer and less brainwashed medical community that exists outside of Amerika. Like my friend kingcobra in the AromaEjuice threads mentioned after I asked the other ECF members who post in those threads: how do we educate Amerikan doctors and addictionologists to the fact that nicotine is not the only substance in tobacco we are addicted to, and why the nicotine gum and patches don't work, and many people start vaping and go right back to cigarettes, because physicians and addiction experts don't realize we are addicted to the whole spectrum of alkaloids in the tobacco plant, not just the nicotine? This is the case to different degrees in different people, some worse than others, and many people are very satisfied with nicotine alone.

    (Those selective alkaloids should be made available in a consumption form like vaping as part of a harm reduction plan to get people to quit smoking. They already are available, but not enough people know of them, especially not doctors or addiction specialists. Only one or two retailers are selling them to the vaping community, and while there is the same risk of TSNAs (Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines = organic components in Tobacco that are speculated to cause cancer) in Whole Tobacco Alkaloid, as there are in Swedish snus. Still no combustion, carbon monoxide, or known cardiac stress, or the remaining 4,000 chemicals in a lit cigarette. Jerry's (ECF Member radiokaos) lab can selectively remove each tobacco alkaloid one at a time, as shown through gas chromatography-mass spectrometry = very selective process.)

    He responded:
    That is only more evident that they continue to sell and profit from the drug Chantix, even though it has a success rate of only between 5% - 17%, depending on which studies you selectively believe. Yet the suicide rate from Chantix almost equals the number of successfully quit smokers, who they only followed for 6 weeks to 3 months after they "quit" smoking. I wouldn't be surprised if they count all the suicides as successful ex-smokers. How did they think you could stop the reward center of the brain, where the dopamine receptors are, non-selectively, and not have sweeping, tragic consequences? That is the same part of the brain from where Schizophrenia develops, and so does Parkinsons disease, not to mention the manic spectrum of Bipolar disorders to a partial extent, the dangers are insurmountable, yet they play God when they still can't make these drugs more selective than an axe cutting into an iPhone. And they are close to releasing vaccines that cause people to stop feeling the effects of nicotine, and another vaccine for coke, people won't feel the effects of these substances for the remainder of their lives after being vaccinated. This could cause a severe dysphoric disorder and suicide rate. You can only imagine what the sweeping side-effects of these vaccines will be, and they won't care, they will keep vaccinating people as they put guns to their heads and take their own lives.

    And a few states want to tell vaping retailers they can't sell me flavored e-liquids like watermelon, vanilla, caramel cappuccino, raspberry chocolate truffle, and apple, because those flavors are aimed at getting children to start vaping I guess. I am 43 years old. Well like the Huggies commercial says: "I'm a big kid now!"
     
  9. fuzzione

    fuzzione Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 11, 2012
    GTA Ontario
    Yes, any smoking cessation method that ultimately kills off the smoker is probably counted as 'effective' in the stats :)

    My concern is that Dr. Farsalinas may not be fully aware of what he's up against. I anticipate that the stakeholders who would be harmed by Dr. Farsalinas' studies may resort to unscrupulous means to silence, manipulate or otherwise discredit his findings and generally make his life as difficult as possible to proceed further. I hope he is supported in every possible way so he can stay the course.
     
  10. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    Hey now, you are saying they don't care? Of course they care.
    And I'm sure they will be making a pill that you can take to take care of those minor suicidal issues.

    Will that pill possibly cause other problems? Hey, sure, why not!
    Then they can make a pill for that too!

    In this New World Order you can start with one pill and work your way up.
    And in the end, they can give you the best pill of all, the one that just goes ahead and kills you.

    All problems solved!!
     
  11. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    Mark my words, the vaccines will fail and have disastrous consequences. All these drugs (nicotine, etc) have physiologic action because they resemble endogenous neurotransmitters and have the capacity to bind their respective receptors.


    Any immune response these vaccines will generate will result in bystander damage to acetylcholine, etc, or whatever endogenous compound happens to resemble the 'drug' they are trying to 'block.' And to play with someone's acetylcholine levels (trying to scavenge nic) will have monstrous sequelae, and for these imbeciles to think they can do so selectively is a pipe dream.

    Antibody style treatments are 100% of the time considered "big guns" because of the risks associated with them, if nothing else, anaphylactoid reactions can happen. They are NEVER first line, unless significant mortality is imminent (e.g. IV IgG treatments for a baby with kawasaki's disease)

    I'll speculate on a set of side effects:

    nicotine vaccine: tachycardia, dry mouth, blurry vision, altered mental status, depressed cognition, urinary retention, constipation

    coke vaccine: depression, suicidal ideation and intention, parkinsonism/movement disorders, abulia, anhedonia, hypotension, ADD
     
  12. fuzzione

    fuzzione Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 11, 2012
    GTA Ontario
    All that will matter is the $ in > $ out from lawsuits and recalls.
    Other concerns are secondary.
    Scientific evidence will be massaged, altered, hidden, suppressed or fabricated to
    ensure necessary approvals.
     
  13. CigFreedMike

    CigFreedMike Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 6, 2012
    New England
     
  14. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    What is a poison? Something that kills something?
    Drink too much water and then get back to me, if you're still alive.
     
  15. fuzzione

    fuzzione Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 11, 2012
    GTA Ontario
     
  16. Kurt

    Kurt Quantum Vapyre ECF Veteran

    Sep 16, 2009
    Philadelphia
    Cyrus, I agree with you entirely about the vaccines. Your posts are always outstanding! :) And thanks for the detailed nerve pain post in the gastritis thread. What you say is exactly what I have found from experience. Smoking is a balance between short term relief and long term inflammation. To coin an ancient arab saying "A little warms, a lot burns." Although it was not about tobacco...

    Yes, I will be most interested in how the good doctor fares with his talk...and I'm sure he can make a very compelling 15 minute talk. It's what we in research science do. You present an attractive tip of the iceberg, then give those interested access to the rest of the iceberg. His audience will be experts, not uneducated masses that need to get up to speed to get the data. You can make a huge and powerful statement in 15 minutes. I personally practice and choreograph every word of my talk many many times before presenting.

    Perhaps I was being a bit too enthusiastic when I said go ahead and vape, it will do you no harm. True it is not quite as black and white as that, just like eating food and drinking liquids. But given that there are zero deaths and in general no known significant negative effects from normal vaping nic amounts, it sure looks like smooth sailing to me. Sure, there will be those that have some problems from PG, VG, flavors, too much nic, but all in all its pretty benign.

    And its absolutely nothing compared to Chantix. If we had the death rate that Chantix has, ecigs would not have been allowed to exist for a week by the FDA. Unless of course it was BP that made the ecig, and if that had been the case we would be fine to keep vaping.
     
  17. CigFreedMike

    CigFreedMike Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 6, 2012
    New England
     
  18. CigFreedMike

    CigFreedMike Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 6, 2012
    New England
    LOL, you are certainly right!
     
  19. Cyrus Vap

    Cyrus Vap Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 8, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    Kurt if I'm posting anything that you are finding interesting, well, I'm flattered :) FWIW I have also found nic to be phenomenal for pain control as well, I have multiple issues that it seems to keep at bay, neuropathic and arthropathic.
     
  20. Baptyzmbyf1re

    Baptyzmbyf1re Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 18, 2012
    Omaha
    Not going to contribute much (sorry I'm an engineer and not in medicine), but I did watch the video tonight and am very thankful for the post and for Dr. Farsalinos' research. Such an interesting video this was to see.
     
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