H1N1 (Swine Flu) and e-cigs?
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Not at this point I don't. We have a doctor in the family whom my wife has consulted, and he pretty much told me what I already knew:
Plenty of fluids, fever management and rest is fine for typical flu. I am aware that if I begin experiencing respiratory troubles, my fever doesn't start to subside by tomorrow or I develope worsening symptoms I should go, but only because it might be possible I may have this new "swine" flu.
I don't plan on leaving my house for the next few days, even if my symptoms start clearing up (crossing fingers).
Luckily, my 2 days of bedrest have done wonders.. And while I still feel pretty achy and weak, my headaches are less frequent and my fever seems to be getting lower (last temp was only 102.2 w/ no tylenol).
If the kids get sick, I'll send them .. but as for me, I'll just wait it out.
Plenty of fluids, fever management and rest is fine for typical flu. I am aware that if I begin experiencing respiratory troubles, my fever doesn't start to subside by tomorrow or I develope worsening symptoms I should go, but only because it might be possible I may have this new "swine" flu.
I don't plan on leaving my house for the next few days, even if my symptoms start clearing up (crossing fingers).
Luckily, my 2 days of bedrest have done wonders.. And while I still feel pretty achy and weak, my headaches are less frequent and my fever seems to be getting lower (last temp was only 102.2 w/ no tylenol).
If the kids get sick, I'll send them .. but as for me, I'll just wait it out.
Yes the flu is nothing to play around with, I'm deff not a doctor but PG won't do anything for a virus. Flu is a virus and I imagine PG would help a bacterial affliction in some situations. The only thing you can do for a flu is keep hydrated and get rest, eat some advil and catch up on all ur tivo shows you have been putting off. A doctor visit is a really good idea just to make sure it stays flu and does not progress into something worse. I imagine it's possible to kill viruses before they kick in with PG vapor, but if you catch it you go it no question. Hope you feel better bro, and get well soon.
Here's what irked me: A 20-day e-cig convert tells the "community" that decades-old research, confirmed as recently as October by Dr. Murray Laugesen of Health New Zealand, is wrong because HE got the flu. Utter arrogant nonsense to assume that conclusion!
PG is wonderfully effective -- but not 100% (nothing is). And some people have immunity to just about any virus or bacteria. So nothing is 100% and our newbie here might have a flu strain. But he would be a rare one unless he's right that all those researchers are just dead wrong in their conclusions, and those photos of deceased germs in Petri dishes are all faked.
Please. Just go read the real science papers and don't take anyone's word on this, mine or a Mr. Newbie's. Read the research and you will KNOW that propylene glycol is a very effective germ killer.
PG is wonderfully effective -- but not 100% (nothing is). And some people have immunity to just about any virus or bacteria. So nothing is 100% and our newbie here might have a flu strain. But he would be a rare one unless he's right that all those researchers are just dead wrong in their conclusions, and those photos of deceased germs in Petri dishes are all faked.
Please. Just go read the real science papers and don't take anyone's word on this, mine or a Mr. Newbie's. Read the research and you will KNOW that propylene glycol is a very effective germ killer.
This thread is too important for uninformed comment. Here's a direct quote from the research on PG and germs:
And here's a sentence from the final summary, just before the photos showing how germs were killed:
Do not stop inhaling PG on anyone's word that he or she got sick. A copy of the research paper (heavy reading) is at http://www.karr-tv.com/picrender.pdf. Be sure to see the photos at the very end of this PDF.
And here's a sentence from the final summary, just before the photos showing how germs were killed:
Do not stop inhaling PG on anyone's word that he or she got sick. A copy of the research paper (heavy reading) is at http://www.karr-tv.com/picrender.pdf. Be sure to see the photos at the very end of this PDF.
I thought Demiurge had the flu or whatever he has. I hope he gets well soon and it doesn't affect his brain cells anymore.
Calm down, Demiurge, and welcome aboard. Your prolly just crabby cause your sick. TBob is one of the good guys. And....
I vote we give TBob the first ever honorary ECF PhD. He deserves it and he earned it!!!!!
I don't think we're going to be looking at anyone mass-releasing PG into the atmosphere/building HVAC systems simply because no one knows exactly what would happen to everyone if they did.
Theoretically it would be all ok and no one would croak due to PG, but they can't know that unless they tested it a million ways to sunday on all health conditions (heart patients, cancer victims, etc) for a long period of time. Would I rather get a sore throat and the runs than swine flu? Absolutely. But I don't know that the unknown risks would be acceptable to the masses with all the variables involved. I don't even know how you COULD test for all of that.
My thoughts come on the heels of personally reading a fictional short story by Stephen King entitled "The End of the Whole Mess" where they essentially put the planet on the equivalent of prozac but end up giving everyone Alzheimers disease and everyone goes bat-crap crazy 3 years later.
I obviously like the idea of a PG cure-all, and I think it's worth further investigation! I just doubt it will be used as a global air freshener without a LOT of controversy and debate.
Theoretically it would be all ok and no one would croak due to PG, but they can't know that unless they tested it a million ways to sunday on all health conditions (heart patients, cancer victims, etc) for a long period of time. Would I rather get a sore throat and the runs than swine flu? Absolutely. But I don't know that the unknown risks would be acceptable to the masses with all the variables involved. I don't even know how you COULD test for all of that.
My thoughts come on the heels of personally reading a fictional short story by Stephen King entitled "The End of the Whole Mess" where they essentially put the planet on the equivalent of prozac but end up giving everyone Alzheimers disease and everyone goes bat-crap crazy 3 years later.
I obviously like the idea of a PG cure-all, and I think it's worth further investigation! I just doubt it will be used as a global air freshener without a LOT of controversy and debate.
Also - I'm a closet TBob fan - I've read a lot of your posts. I second the nomination for ECF PHD!
I'd say go see the doc if you're sick, but it's none of my biz either
I'd say go see the doc if you're sick, but it's none of my biz either
Excuse me guy. I may only be a "20-day e-cig convert" but the only "arrogant" nonsense being spewed here is from you. Read over my post again TropicalBob. No where in my post did I claim Dr Murray Laugesen is wrong. The great thing about forum disagreements is that all statements are "on the record" so-to-speak. Go back and read what I wrote. It's really not open to interpretation. I stated that I was vaping heavy. I stated I caught the flu. I wrote that it's "germ-killing" properties, in my experience are in question. Period.
It's really that simple.
There's really no need to start attacking me ad-hominem simply because I've shared a personal experience. Remember which of the 2 of us here is making claims. Only one of us is providing any claim based on personal experience.
What purpose would there be in my coming here just to try to "de-bunk" some claim?
You're starting to tread dangerous ground here TropicalBob, making health claims that are not entirely accurate. Yes I've seen the reports, I don't disagree there there is proof for a germ killing component of PG. But to say that it's basically impossible that I could have caught a flu virus because I vape is essentially the wild claim I am referring to.
I expect that within a few days, there will be more posts from other people that have indeed still caught the flu regardless of vaping habits.
If anything is going to blow the dog whistle for the FDA, it's threads like this, with people like you, willing to put on the blinders for any evidence contrary to their convoluted expectations.
Again, I believe in the E-cig. I've seen the great stuff it can do for a cigarette addiction. I've convinced friends to try it, I've got my wife to give up her cigarette addiction for it, and I truly hope that it stays legal to distribute in US.
I have news for you TropicalBob, I may be a "newb" (btw, 1997 called and they want their e-peen induced flame term back) but I am not an idiot. Nor am I one of your lemming fan boys. I read this forum- ALOT. I've been here for a while. As a matter of fact, judging from your posting history in other discussions, I sort of expected this response from you.
It's too bad that my first few posts needed to be this negative, but with a "welcoming" committee like this, I'm not sure what you would expect.
Just believe the science. That's my bottom line.
Don't come into a forum and tell the "community" the science is wrong. That was your bottom line. Do you wonder that you weren't "welcomed"?
Don't come into a forum and tell the "community" the science is wrong. That was your bottom line. Do you wonder that you weren't "welcomed"?
Again, I submit to you: I was relating personal experience. You are flat wrong in your claims that I doubted this exsistence or content of these findings. The title of this thread is "H1N1 (Swine Flu) and e-cigs" I simply related an experience I had with both "Vaping" and "flu".
Anyone with half a brain in their head will backtrack through this thread and see my claims for themselves. Keep up your attacks though.. I'm sure they're amusing to you. Myself, I'm bored with your display of ignorance in this thread already.
Anyone with half a brain in their head will backtrack through this thread and see my claims for themselves. Keep up your attacks though.. I'm sure they're amusing to you. Myself, I'm bored with your display of ignorance in this thread already.
Demiurge, even the written word is open for interpitation. Just take a course at the University in English lit and see.
I have interpited your writting as hostial, to a person that has vaped much longer and knows more about it than you do. Futher more if we don't agree with you 100% your going to get angry. We will all be having short converstaions with you or no conversation.
I have interpited your writting as hostial, to a person that has vaped much longer and knows more about it than you do. Futher more if we don't agree with you 100% your going to get angry. We will all be having short converstaions with you or no conversation.
To invalidate a guy's experience and knowledge because he hasn't typed in his name on a forum is silly. You then chose not to believe him when he says he has the flu because it doesn't fit your belief in a study dating all the way back to the stone age.
You also failed to mention the numerous suspected health issues associated with PG so I will quote from the lab report:
suspected respiratory toxicant
suspected skin or sense organ toxicant
suspected neurotoxicant
suspected immunotoxicant.
I would want to see some testing in a modern lab with modern equipment that verifies it is an effective viricidal before I'd make posts recommending people use it to protect themselves against influenza.
If you're sick, see your doctor. If you want to vape with PG, then be aware that there are possible health issues that could arise in the future.
Edit: Welcome Demiurge, you seem to be a bright and articulate person. We can definitely use more like you
You also failed to mention the numerous suspected health issues associated with PG so I will quote from the lab report:
suspected respiratory toxicant
suspected skin or sense organ toxicant
suspected neurotoxicant
suspected immunotoxicant.
I would want to see some testing in a modern lab with modern equipment that verifies it is an effective viricidal before I'd make posts recommending people use it to protect themselves against influenza.
If you're sick, see your doctor. If you want to vape with PG, then be aware that there are possible health issues that could arise in the future.
Edit: Welcome Demiurge, you seem to be a bright and articulate person. We can definitely use more like you
Honestly if I seem hostile, it's because I have a forum personality essentially calling me a liar. If this is truly this community's reaction to someone who is sharing personal experience with regards to a product that is being supported, I have to seriously draw into question all other facts (with regards to possible bias) on this forum. It seems there's a good amount of you that will throw away all common sense for a "sense of belonging". Icky.. sounds like a weird kinda cult mentality some of you folks are starting to develope.
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Well i gotta flight to NJ this weekend....so i guess i should vape while on the plane to kill any germs huh? LOL
In all seriousness i am a little concerned about having to fly right now but Demiurge and TBob i appreciate the info and hope that our PV's can help ward off anything bad. Thanks
In all seriousness i am a little concerned about having to fly right now but Demiurge and TBob i appreciate the info and hope that our PV's can help ward off anything bad. Thanks
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No one called you a lair, someone just did not believe you had the flu. All that occured was a differance of opinon and even doctors may agree or disagree on what is the flu or not.
You welcome to the forum, we do like differnate opinons and look forward to hearding your thoughts on what we do, but if someone don't agree with you anger is not the answer and will not help us in our discussions.
You welcome to the forum, we do like differnate opinons and look forward to hearding your thoughts on what we do, but if someone don't agree with you anger is not the answer and will not help us in our discussions.
Hmm. Ok. Fair enough.
Although for the record, I'm not angry. I'm generally a pretty blissful, jovial kinda guy. Until I'm crossed. If I feel the need to defend my point of view, well you're gonna hear it. I may come off as hostile in this thread but unfortunately, the very foundation of the argument being presented to me here was on hostile footing. At the risk of sounding like "well he started it", I think it's best I let that sleeping dog lay.
TropicalBob, if you come across this: I'm not offering apology, simply a truce. You seem to have your belief, and I have mine. No amount of arguing on a forum is going to change either of our personal realities.
Anyway, thanks for the welcome. I'm sure my future posts won't seem so ornery.
My sentiments exactly Demiurge. I'm so sorry your post was responded to in such a demeaning and arrogant way...some people reek of self-righteousness, which makes them borderline pompous. You are clearly owed an apology.
PG has a list 5-fold of health warnings compared to VG. A 2008 lab analysis of one brand of e-liquid ended with a specific recommendation that PG be replaced. I use VG. Will I ever join the PG vs VG debate? No, and I'll tell you why. (1) It's a personal choice. (2) I have no problem with anyone who chooses to use PG over VG.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery Demiurge and I join Nuck in welcoming a "bright and articulate" poster to ECF.
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Demiurge, truce it is. I'm not arguing further, but based my initial hostile response (and it was meant to be that way so those not informed wouldn't take your experience as a typical or general one) on three parts of your posts.
1. Sorry you're sick.
2. The studies hold.
3. I'll fuss no more in this thread.
1. Sorry you're sick.
2. The studies hold.
3. I'll fuss no more in this thread.
Here is a bit o freaky for ya. I have a nursing degree. I have been smoking for near 15 years (soon to get my vaping kit soon). For at least 10 years I have not had a Flu Vaccination. Yes... I get the flu every year, but it is never as bad as those who are around me. I am down for meh... what a week? Then back to work I go.
This whole swine flu thing? I have my own personal beliefs on it. And if I am right about it, then it wont be good for anyone, and I will be stocking up on vapor juice.
If you would actually like any help with getting over the flu, then please feel free to let me know.
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