H1N1 (Swine Flu) and e-cigs?

[yvilla]

Hey, Apatel just posted a link to this in another thread:

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/propylene_glycol_red.pdf

Turns out PG has been used as an air sanitizer and anti-microbial in places like hospitals for years, and was reapproved for that purpose in September, 2006.

Edit - says it works against bacteria and some viruses! Targets are:

"Odor-causing bacteria, Fleas, Mites, Red lice, Animal pathogenic bacteria (G- and G+ vegetative), Shigella bacteria, Pasteurella bacteria, Listeria bacteria, Herpes Simplex I and II, Animal viruses, Influenza Virus A2, Aspergillus Niger Fungus, Mold/Mildew, Pseudomonas SPP., Shigella Flexneri, Shigella Sonnei."

 

[kcooper]

Well the good thing is if you have your e-cig you dont have to go outside to smoke and become exposed to the virus!

 

[Kate]

Here's the link to research that Leaford found about propylene glycol being used with lung transplant patients - Mary Ann Liebert, Inc. - Journal of Aerosol Medicine - 20(4):417

 

[ChainSmkr]

Was testing done on PG with nicotine added?
Was testing done on PG with flavoring added?
Was testing done on PG with both nicotine and flavoring added?
Is it possible that the additives of nicotine/flavorings to PG could negate/effect the results?
How much PG was used and for what duration - is it the equivalent of vaping for 1 day, 1 month, 5 months, 1 year?

I'm thinking the answers are No, Not Tested, We Don't Know, Haven't Done the Math, etc.

Flu viruses are complex and potentially fatal.
I hope that if anyone is experiencing even the slightest flu-like symptoms,
they will promptly make an appointment with their doctor instead of thinking "Oh, I vape PG so I'm cleaning bacteria out of my lungs as we speak, maybe viruses too."

 

[Elle]

I hope that if anyone is experiencing even the slightest flu-like symptoms,
they will promptly make an appointment with their doctor instead of thinking "Oh, I vape PG so I'm cleaning bacteria out of my lungs as we speak, maybe viruses too."

i'm sure our members here on the forum are intelligent enough to know when they need to see a physician.

 

[ChainSmkr]

i'm sure our members here on the forum are intelligent enough to know when they need to see a physician.

That's not what I'm reading in some posts.

 

[Elle]

i rarely read every post in a thread Chain, so i'm not the expert.

i will say that either way i don't care; less people at the hospital means more room for me if i need it

 

[taz3cat]

No matter what people say in these post, if they get sick they will go to the doctor when they need too. Just because we are ex-smokers don't make us deranged contray to popular opinion about smokers.

I did read a real research paper, smokers did better than non-smokers when they had by-pass surgery. The researchers said it was because smokers don't go to the doctor with chest pains (if they did not go to doctor how did they know).

 

[TropicalBob]

Lithium: All links are on the first two pages or so in the "germ-killing vapor" thread. You can also read Dr. Laugesen's comments on those pages. Don't go too deep into that thread, because it went to hell like so many do. Also see Dr. Laugesen's October report at Health New Zealand. He found studies I never saw and referenced them.

Pay particular attention to the PDF of the original research. Make your own copy. It's scientific so any medical source will appreciate it more than a Time magazine article.

FYI: I emailed Dr. Laugesen about this as follows:

Dr. Laugesen,
>
> I'm replying to this old message to jog your memory about our exchanges last year. I'm a writer, and I used your quoted information in an article for SmokeShop magazine in America.
>
> My question today is whether there is a chance that inhaling propylene glycol vapor from electronic cigarettes might have an effect on the H1N1 swine flu virus that I see is now found in New Zealand, as well as the Americas. There is a direct quote from the original researchers that propylene glycol vapor was indeed effective against influenza virus. An e-cigarette, of course, is a personal, portable propylene glycol vaporizer.
>
> Just a thought. Keep up your good work. I try to keep track of your research, through your Web sites.

And he replied:

Dear Bob Great minds think alike. Its worth a thought alright. PG has not been tested against the particular virus but it should be worth doing research on this.

Currently I am out of NZ and cant easily intervene.

 

[cucurucho]

Slightly off topic, but I've been down with a common cold for the past week, and am impressed that it has not developed into any kind of infection. Back in my smoking days, I'd have been coughing up all sorts of horrible coloured phlegm with a cold like this. I thank my PG liquid for keeping my lungs and sinuses infection free.

On the topic of swine flu, I think the whole thing is completely overhyped. There have been only 9 confirmed deaths in Mexico and one in the US. Each year, 36000 people die from flu related complications in the US. I really don't see why the swine flu should be considered a greater threat. I think everyone should have a read of this article: Swine flu may be less potent than first feared

Don't panic.

 

[OutWest]

I don't think we're going to be looking at anyone mass-releasing PG into the atmosphere/building HVAC systems simply because no one knows exactly what would happen to everyone if they did.

Theoretically it would be all ok and no one would croak due to PG, but they can't know that unless they tested it a million ways to sunday on all health conditions (heart patients, cancer victims, etc) for a long period of time. Would I rather get a sore throat and the runs than swine flu? Absolutely. But I don't know that the unknown risks would be acceptable to the masses with all the variables involved. I don't even know how you COULD test for all of that.

It's not scientific tests, per say, but PG is the same thing used in fog machines. So, we essentially already have those tests simply by all the use of fog machines through the years at clubs, concerts, the theatre, parades, and other events.

 

[mixxy]

Slightly off topic, but I've been down with a common cold for the past week, and am impressed that it has not developed into any kind of infection. Back in my smoking days, I'd have been coughing up all sorts of horrible coloured phlegm with a cold like this. I thank my PG liquid for keeping my lungs and sinuses infection free.

On the topic of swine flu, I think the whole thing is completely overhyped. There have been only 9 confirmed deaths in Mexico and one in the US. Each year, 36000 people die from flu related complications in the US. I really don't see why the swine flu should be considered a greater threat. I think everyone should have a read of this article: Swine flu may be less potent than first feared

Don't panic.

I agree cucurucho about the overhype, and not sure if this will help ease others concerns/fears... but I've been a fan of Dr. Mercola for a long time.. who publishes a "natural health" newsletter. He did an article on the swine flue this past week that I found interesting, and eased any concerns for the most part (of course I'll just keep on vapin' my PG "health juice" just for good measure!
Critical Alert: The Swine Flu Pandemic ? Fact or Fiction?

 

[laynies]

I agree cucurucho about the overhype, and not sure if this will help ease others concerns/fears... but I've been a fan of Dr. Mercola for a long time.. who publishes a "natural health" newsletter. He did an article on the swine flue this past week that I found interesting, and eased any concerns for the most part (of course I'll just keep on vapin' my PG "health juice" just for good measure!
Critical Alert: The Swine Flu Pandemic ? Fact or Fiction?

Great artical Mixxy.. thank you for posting the link.

 

[leaford]

I agree cucurucho about the overhype, and not sure if this will help ease others concerns/fears... but I've been a fan of Dr. Mercola for a long time.. who publishes a "natural health" newsletter. He did an article on the swine flue this past week that I found interesting, and eased any concerns for the most part (of course I'll just keep on vapin' my PG "health juice" just for good measure!
Critical Alert: The Swine Flu Pandemic ? Fact or Fiction?

Beware of any supposed health expert who warns against vaccinations. THe claim that more people die of complications is utterly false, even if you don't consider all the millions of lives vaccinations have saved. ANd his alternate reccomendations, Vitamin D and Omega-3 fatty acids haven't been proven to have ANY beneficial effect as suppliments, and their theoretical benefits don't have anything to do with a VIRAL INFECTION, which is what a flu is. This guy is a quack.

See here for true info about Vitamin suppliments and omega-3:
Should You Take Your Vitamins?
Student Questions: Fish Oil, Charities, and Rumors

Whatever you think about conventional medicine versus alternate medicine, at least science based medicine is proven to work, the reasons WHY it works are known and understood, and the risks are out weighed by the benefits.

Science based medicine has cured many forms of cancer, nearly wiped out polio, eliminated smallpox, and turned childhood KILLERS like measels mumps and rubella into rare diseases. WHat has "alternate "medicine" CURED?

 

[mixxy]

Beware of any supposed health expert who warns against vaccinations. THe claim that more people die of complications is utterly false, even if you don't consider all the millions of lives vaccinations have saved. ANd his alternate reccomendations, Vitamin D and Omega-3 fatty acids haven't been proven to have ANY beneficial effect as suppliments, and their theoretical benefits don't have anything to do with a VIRAL INFECTION, which is what a flu is. This guy is a quack.

See here for true info about Vitamin suppliments and omega-3:
Should You Take Your Vitamins?
Student Questions: Fish Oil, Charities, and Rumors

Whatever you think about conventional medicine versus alternate medicine, at least science based medicine is proven to work, the reasons WHY it works are known and understood, and the risks are out weighed by the benefits.

Science based medicine has cured many forms of cancer, nearly wiped out polio, eliminated smallpox, and turned childhood KILLERS like measels mumps and rubella into rare diseases. WHat has "alternate "medicine" CURED?

leaford -

I have no desire to argue with you about science based medicine, but I think you are going too far by calling Dr. Mercola a quack. I never said I always agree with him 100%, but I do believe that there are "some" illnesses that can be treated in a more natural way, rather than by popping another RX. I don't agree that "all" science based medicine is "proven" to work... and I feel that for some things the RX is more dangerous than the illness it was suppose to treat. As far as vaccinations... I'm glad my children are (healthy) and grown now, so that I don't have to make those decisions these days.

But since this started out talking about "flu" and after reading (below) I would definately NOT be giving my children flu shots!
This article by Dr. Mercola is written in reference to the article in USA Today - December 2007:
Tamiflu's Effects On Your Brain
USA Today December 2007:
FDA panel to review Tamiflu's effect on brain - USATODAY.com

I have other opinions about conventional medicine... but I'm not 100% "against" conventional medicine either... so I won't go into them

 

[leaford]

I'm sorry, Mixxy, but I can't back off one millimeter. Anti-vaccinators are contemptable quacks. The benefits of vaccinations are as proven as gravity, and the antis are just fear-mongers who are RUINING our future for their own financial benefit. Your "doctor" is just a suppliment pusher. Everything he spews out is just a means of scaring you and others away from REAL medicine, and scaring you into buying his unproven garbage.

Do you know that about a decade ago we were on the verge of wiping out polio? A major worldwide vaccination effort had just about been completed when a few islamic leaders began spreading the rumor that the vaccines were poison, a plot by the US to wipe out all muslims. From these few communities that refused the vaccines, polio began to spread through the world again, and now millions are dying or will die from a disese we have the ability to eliminate from the planet.

Those islamic leaders were motivated by politics and racism, your "doctor" Mercola is motivated by a desire to sell useless suppliments. Both are contemptable.

Vaccines are safe and effective, do not cause autism, do not cause more deaths or side effects than the diseases they prevent, and anyone who says otherwise is a quack.

And I am glad your children are old enough that they were vaccinated before this stupid anti-vaccination hysteria started. I truly dispair though for the millions of children being denied protection from preventable diseases by people who listen to the quacks and nutcases.

 

[mixxy]

I'm sorry too Leaford... but we will just have to beg to differ on this I guess. Dr. M sure isn't *my* doctor, and I have never purchased any of his products/supplements. I do enjoy reading Dr. M's articles, and most of all I enjoy the assorted experiences/opinions he gets from readers in reply to his articles.

I am also a big fan of the www.earthclinic.com for alternative medicine... BUT if I still had children I WOULD still be vaccinating for the deadliest diseases. I consider flu vaccines (which was the topic here) and others, as optional depending on how healthy a person is.

The same thing (re: vaccinations) is happening in the pet world. I now have "dog children" in my family. My Jack Russell Terrier went blind at 2 years old from a heart worm preventative that was recalled (for blindness and other reasons) and found out later that the risk of heart worm is so low in our area that it wasn't even worth the "risk" of having vaccinated her in the first place. Back when this happened (6 years ago) I just loved my dog enough to vaccinate here for "everything" available... because that just had to be the best for her? I no longer vaccinate her for things I consider "unnecessary" but she still gets all of the core vaccines. There is just a big *grey area* between what you believe.. and what I believe... let's just leave it at that, okay?

 

[leaford]

Please don't think I am upset with you personally, Mixxy, but I cannot agree to disagree when the idea I disagree with is IMO dangerous and NEEDS to be argued against.

So-called alternative treatments are dangerous because they convince otherwise intelligent people to avoid legitimate medicine. People DIE because they go to a holistic healer instead of an oncologist for their cancer. Children right here in the US die of measles mumps or rubella, because their parents listened to Jenny Mccarthy about vaccinations instead of listening to their doctor.

For every medicine that is later recalled there are thousands more that aren't. Alternative "medicine" practitioners want you to focus on that one, and not on the thousands that save lives. But even those few failed drugs are proof that science based medicine WORKS, because the flaws are found by real doctors and scientists, not alternative practitioners. Real medicine is self correcting, and self improving.

Even the idea of limiting vacinations, skipping the "low risk" ones, is dangerous. The reason some of those diseases are low risk is BECAUSE we've been vaccinating against them for generations. If we stop vaccinating, they come back, and become high risk again, not just for those who didn't vaccinate, but for all of us.

That's why I can't agree to disagree. Nothing personal. I dont like to argue, but I think it's that important to fight against these quacks. For everyone's sake.

 

[cucurucho]

For my part, I have to say I became very sceptical of Dr. Mercola's site when I saw his claims that ordinary cookware is poisonous and that only his own branded ceramic cookware is safe to use.

 

[doc g]

What about these health experts leaford?
Do you know something they don't? Do you google?
The following text was copied & paste from this website-
Larry Wishon | Doctors Speak Out on the Dangers of Vaccines.
"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good."
Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer, US Food and Drug Administration
"The greatest threat of childhood disease lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization."
Dr R. Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)
"In our opinion, there is now sufficient evidence of immune malfunction following current vaccination programmes to anticipate growing public demands for research investigation into alternative methods of prevention of infectious disease."
Dr's H. Buttram and J. Hoffman (Vaccinations and Immune Malfunctions)
"All vaccination has the effect of directing the three values of the blood into or toward the zone characteristics of cancer and leukemia . . . Vaccines DO predispose to cancer and leukaemia."
Professor L.C. Vincent, Founder of Bioelectronics
"Every vaccine carries certain hazards and can produce inward reactions in some people . . . in general, there are more vaccine complications than is generally appreciated."
Professor George ****, London University
"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)
"In addition to the many obvious cases of mortality from these practises, there are also long-term hazards which are almost impossible to estimate accurately . . . the inherent danger of all vaccine procedures should be a deterrent to their unnecessary or unjustifiable use."
Sir Graham Wilson (The Hazards of immunization)
"Laying aside the very real possibility that the various vaccines are contaminated with animal viruses and may cause serious illness later in life (multiple sclerosis, cancer, leukaemia, etc) we must consider whether the vaccines really work for their intended purpose."
Dr W.C. Douglas (Cutting Edge, May 1990)
"The only wholly safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used"
Dr James A. Shannon, National Institute of Health, USA