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Harmful Substances in E-Liquids**

Discussion in 'General E-Liquid Discussion' started by SenorMike, May 24, 2015.

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  1. SenorMike

    SenorMike Full Member

    May 12, 2015
    Hello, Newbie Mike here.

    Ive been reviewing info on harmful substances in the liquids.

    The obvious are:

    "D-A-AP":

    Diacetyl, Acetoin and Acetyl Proprionyl

    And what seems to be a new player:
    Butyric Acid. And from searching I find this:
    "Inhalation of butyric acid may result in soreness of throat, coughing, a burning sensation and labored breathing. Ingestion of the acid may result in abdominal pain, shock, and collapse."

    FROM:
    Butyric Acid - Alternative to Diacetyl, Acetoin and Acetyl Proprionyl but Toxic by EPA? | E-Cigarette Forum



    My Question:
    I am currently doing my DIY flavor shopping from WizzardLabs. These ingredients seem to be common in creams and custard like flavors.
    Reading through their website, I have found that some a-like flavors from different brands are noted to have Butyrtic Acid while others do not have that claim added to them.

    Are those indeed free of these acids and chemicals? Can we for sure say that these do not contain these...

    I have found that 10 of my 40 or so flavors have these ingredients and now I probably just need to pour them out. But a few I would like to replace with the other brands that do not show to have that in their version of the flavor.

     
  2. KattMamma

    KattMamma Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2015
    DFW Area, Texas
    Usually, if they DON'T have the bad stuff, they'll say so. DX versions are diketone free, etc.

    I applaud you for doing your homework. I did the same, but eventually came to a different conclusion (the risk being so small compared to the remaining years I have, I decided to not give up the flavors I love!)

    But the wonderful thing about DIY is that you are in control of the substances in your juice -- it just takes a bit of homework. Some manufacturers of flavors aren't so forthcoming, but more and more are, which is a good thing for us -- we have choices!!
     
  3. mauricem00

    mauricem00 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2015
    carson city nevada
    butyric acid is an irritant in large quantities but in the quantities used in juice it is harmless.if there was enough in your flavorings to cause irritation you would feel it and the taste would be so nasty you could not use it.most of these "hazards" from vaping are just propaganda from the tobacco and pharmaceutical industry that are losing profits as more smokers switch to vaping.look at the levels found in vapor and compare that to the amount of toxic chemicals in the air you breath.this will help put things into prospective.I like cream flavored juice and use diketone free flavorings in my mix.but an irritant is just that. if your juice does not cause irritation when you vape it then there is no hazard. the reports show no other risk.this and other "chemical threats" are nothing compared to the poison I put in my body for the 45 years I smoked. and after 5 month of vaping and being tobacco free I feel much better. e-ciggs have been around for 9 years and except for a rare PG allergy their have been no reports of any health problems linked to vaping.these scare tactics are intended to convince people to keep smoking or use prescription drugs that do not work for most of us and have serious side effects for some
     
    • Like Like x 5
  4. madrabbit

    madrabbit Senior Member

    Feb 11, 2015
    Kuala Lumpur
    I second that. So far no hard evident show vaping cost death, In fact, cigarette cost so many live for so many, no government ban it from production level but just ban smoking in indoor or some other places and building, why? They making huge money, vaping will make them lost money.

    As long you do it correctly, vaping will more save compare to ciggy.

    Unless there's hard evident that show vaping kill some one, I will keep vaping.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Uses

    Butyric acid is used in the preparation of various butyrate esters. Low-molecular-weight esters of butyric acid, such as methyl butyrate, have mostly pleasant aromas or tastes. As a consequence, they find use as food and perfume additives. It is also used as an animal feed supplement, due to the ability to reduce pathogenic bacterial colonization.[13] It is an approved food flavoring in the EU FLAVIS database (number 08.005).

    Due to its powerful odor, it has also been used as a fishing bait additive.[14] Many of the commercially available flavors used in carp (Cyprinus carpio) baits use butyric acid as their ester base; however, it is not clear whether fish are attracted by the butyric acid itself or the substances added to it. Butyric acid was, however, one of the few organic acids shown to be palatable for both tench and bitterling.[15]

    The substance has also been used as a stink bomb by Sea Shepherd Conservation Society to disrupt Japanese whaling crews,[16] as well as by anti-abortion protesters to disrupt abortion clinics.[17]

    Butyric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  6. WonderDude32

    WonderDude32 Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 9, 2015
    Clarksville, TN
    I understand most of the concerns I've read or heard from fellow vapers and see the need to investigate how juices should be made. That said, we basically have 5 main nicotine options. Gum, patch, chew, smoke, vape, with the alternative option to quit using. Gums and chew are known to cause mouth and throat lesions and cancers. Patches are linked to certain skin cancers. Cigarettes are just plain bad all around. This leaves vaping or quitting. As an ex-smoker, I like being able to have something that curbs my habit and satisfies my urge. I accept the risks involved with vaping as I do with any other activity that could be harmful. We live with risk daily but what are the alternatives with smoking? Worrying about Butyric acid is so small that it almost equals worrying about red meat, airlines or getting struck by lightning.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. mauricem00

    mauricem00 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2015
    carson city nevada
    the MSDA list the toxic level for butyric acid at 2000mg/kg so with the amount used in flavorings a 180 pound person would have to vape over 70,000 ml of juice to get a toxic intake. it is not a cumulative toxin and would leave the lungs as we breath fresh air so I see no way that one could get a harmful amount from vaping.no one could vape that much juice fast enough to do any harm.vaping has been shown to be afar more effective smoking cessation aid than other nicotine options or pharmaceuticals.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. jaytex1969
    This message by jaytex1969 has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, May 27, 2015, Reason: completely off-topic.
    May 24, 2015
  9. AndriaD

    AndriaD Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2014
    LawrencevilleGA
    Butyric acid is to diketones, as e-cigs are to tobaco cigarettes. Possibly irritation, and if it irritates you, you stop using it.

    Andria
     
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  10. SailCat

    SailCat Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 10, 2009
    Beaverton, OR
    You go, Andrea; I like you!

    Reputable vendors will list those DIY flavorings containing "D-A-AP" ingredients, some times to the hundredth, in one cast to the thousandth of a percentage. As with others who have commented, given the symptoms of vaping butyric acid in any significant amount, I think you'd know it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. SenorMike

    SenorMike Full Member

    May 12, 2015
    awesome.
    Than you all from the replies. I do try to do my homework first. I am a bit of a tinker head with my mustangs, so experience on forums there taught me to research before posting or get run over hahaha.

    I did understand that B acid is ok in foods, was mostly curious about any research particularly about inhaling it.

    Seems most agree that it isn't really that harmfull. And of course research says vaping proper products is healthier then smoking. So I guess it doesn't matter to much, especially seeing that I have a cigar from time to time lol


    Thank you for all your replies. I do appreciate such a large response.

    I did post in another section wanting advice on an RDA set up if anyone would like to jump over and see it.
     
  12. AndriaD

    AndriaD Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2014
    LawrencevilleGA
    I'm completely with you about the diketones -- the risk might be minuscule, but for someone with asthma, the idea of lung damage isn't theoretical at all, we live with it everyday. But from what I was able to search out, while the diketones may have a risk of "lung destruction", with butyric acid it's more on the order of irritation than destruction -- and perhaps a greater risk of irritation, than diketones' risk of destruction, but it does seem quite a big difference between destruction and irritation -- if you notice irritation, you stop using it, whereas with diketones, by the time you notice any symptoms (breathlessness), irreversible damage has already been done.

    Andria
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Buckeyes14

    Buckeyes14 Unregistered Supplier

    Jan 27, 2015
    Buckeye State
    What about colored E-Liquids? Got some samples that were green and red, looked like they used food coloring or something. What would those be made from and are they safe to vape?
     
  14. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I would shy away from Any e-Liquid that was made with Added Colorants.

    They don't do Anything to the Flavor. And inhaling them is an Unknown.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. KattMamma

    KattMamma Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2015
    DFW Area, Texas
    I can't comprehend why they would add food coloring. It's not needed - the juices look fine at whatever color they are naturally. I would refuse to buy anything I suspected had food coloring.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. AndriaD

    AndriaD Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2014
    LawrencevilleGA
    Same here, especially since I judge its oxidation by how dark it is, compared to how it started. Do not need or want any artificial coloring, and it really irks me that TFA puts sulfites in the DblChoc-Dark -- sulfites serve NO useful purpose except to keep foods from turning brown, and that flavor is already dark brown, so what's the point? :grr:

    Andria
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. skoony

    skoony Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 31, 2013
    saint paul,mn,usa
    the FDA has approved gums and patches as safe for life time use for healthy persons over the age of twelve.
    i have never heard of them being linked to any form of cancer.
    current studies indicate the use of snuff causes no statistical increase in oral cancers.
    regular chewing tobacco slightly elevates the risk.
    mike
     
  18. KattMamma

    KattMamma Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2015
    DFW Area, Texas
    approved for over the age of 12? I did not know that. Interesting.
     
  19. ellejewell

    ellejewell Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2015
    Fl.
    When I first started the DIY journey I did TONS of research and still do every day. The truth is, is that one one really knows what is "safe" to vape and what is not. They might find out 5 years from now that other chemicals in flavorings will be potentially harmful as well.

    With that said, I think the risk of dike tones is minute and honestly diacetyl is in cigarettes as well. But the way vaping molecules work I do not think it is nearly as harmful as cigarettes plus I am vaping far less chemicals than I ever did when i smoked. I have chosen to vape diketones because i enjoy those flavor, but it all comes down to personal prefrences.
     
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