Harvard Eliquid Study Today

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beckdg

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How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes
GUY BENTLEY
11:14 AM 12/09/2015

A Harvard study claiming most e-cigarette brands expose users to harmful chemicals omits critical information and exaggerates the risks of flavored e-cigarettes, according to tobacco control experts.

The study, published in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives, analyzes a host of e-liquid flavors to discover levels of potentially dangerous chemicals diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and acetoin.

The researchers found one or more of the three chemicals in 92 percent of the 51 unique flavors of e-liquid. Diacetyl is identified in 39 of 51 flavors – 75 percent of the total.

Following the study, an array of media outlets focused on the presence of diacetyl, a chemical used for food flavoring that if inhaled in large amounts can lead to a severe respiratory disease – bronchiolitis obliterans.

Bronchiolitis obliterans is commonly known as “popcorn lung,” because it was identified in workers who inhaled the artificial butter flavor used to make microwavable popcorn. A number of cases of popcorn lung have been found to be so severe in some patients that they have required a full-blown lung transplant.

The Harvard study whipped up a storm of hyperbolic headlines including “Harvard study finds that E-cigarette flavors cause lung disease” and “Chemicals in Flavored E-Cigarettes Tied To ‘Popcorn Lung’ Disease.”

But the headlines may be shielding the truth about the potential risk of popcorn lung from using e-cigarettes.Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos, an expert on e-cigarette research and an opponent of putting diacetyl in e-liquids, writes, “tobacco cigarette smoke contains high levels of diacetyl and acetyl propionyl, on average 100 and 10 times higher,” compared to average e-cigarette exposure.

Farsalinos draws the disparity between tobacco and e-cigarettes from research conducted by himself and colleagues published in the journalNicotine and Tobacco Researchin 2014.

Not only are levels of diacetyl far higher in tobacco smoke than e-cig vapor, but the levels of dangerous compounds found in many of the products studied“are absolutely minimal, and it is not expected to raise any concerns about human health effects,” according to Farsalinos.

Farsalinos adds that the researchers fail to mention the presence of these compounds in tobacco cigarette smoke. “This omission creates the impression that e-cigarettes are exposing users to a new chemical hazard while in reality their exposure will be much lower compared to smoking.”

He concludes that the study is guilty of “creating false impressions and exaggerates the potential risk from diacetyl and acetyl propionyl exposure through e-cigarettes.”

But even more concerning for those who may want to exaggerate the risks of using e-cigarettes, is that even tobacco smoke has no identifiable link with any cases of popcorn lung.

According toCritical Reviews in Toxicology, “smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis (popcorn lung).

Since tobacco smoke contains far higher levels of diacetyl than flavored e-cigarettes and there has not been a single confirmed case of a smoker contracting popcorn lung, the likelihood that vapers will contract this particular lung disease is minimal, to say the least.

Bill Godshall, executive director of Smokefree Pennsylvania and a long-time anti-smoking activist, is even more damning in his criticism of the Harvard study.

“This is yet another Department of Health and Human Services-funded study that is intended to deceive and scare the public about vaping to lobby for Food and Drug Administration’s deeming ban.

“While finding zero evidence of ‘Popcorn Lung,’ the authors are trying to create a public panic,” Godshall tells The Daily Caller News Foundation. Pro-vaping groups are also quick to point out that few people have claimed e-cigarettes are completely free of any health risk.

Greg Conley, president of the American Vaping Association tells TheDCNF, “in the debate over vaping, the concept of relative risk should not be ignored. Vapor products are a far safer alternative to smoking, but it has long been recognized that they are not 100 percent safe.

“Earlier this year, a dozen public health groups endorsed Public Health England’s briefing estimating vaping to be approximately 95 percent less hazardous than smoking. Their assessment left room for some unknown risk from ingredients like flavorings.”

Read more:How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes

Am I the first to quote this?

Hope not.

Hope it gets repeated until it sinks in.

Tapatyped
 
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beckdg

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My argument is aerosols versus combustion creates a huge temperature difference and a totally separate chemical process. It's apples to oranges really.

Then you have absolutely ZERO BASIS on anything what so ever.

NO CASES of popcorn lung were related TO EITHER.

Simple cases of SUSTAINED INDUSTRIAL over exposure.

You're going to need repeatable outcomes to legitimize your assumptions.

You're taking a shot in the dark...
Without an actual target...
At best.

I hope you the best.

But I fear you're reaching pretty far.

Tapatyped
 
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tj99959

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    Ah yes, because it's impossible to hold an nremt-p along side any other licensure.

    My "team of physicians" is based out of a level 1 trauma center in a large metropolitan area.

    Ah - WHAT!!!!

    My daughter is a card carrying IDMT, and like many IDMT/IDC's is a EMT-P. Do you even know what an IDMT or IDC is?!? (military medical provider with the same rules of engagement as a PA)
    note:
    The navy (IDC) doesn't require NREMT certification, but many do it so that they are not in violation of civil law if they help someone.

    My niece is a critical care nurse (RN) and has to be emt certified. (-B I think) Every state has their very own set of rules.
     
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    Aspired4Fire

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    .....and all the conspiracy nuts come out of the wood works.....This industry is a multi billion $$ business. Of course we are going to see campaigns and articles claiming unproven yet HIGHLY opinionated and financially motivated gibberish..what do ya know, it's election season! My point exactly as I stated above. Let's not get our panties in a wad over a few debatable articles. WAIT FOR THE FACTS PEOPLE!!!!! If your scared your in danger. QUIT SMOKING/VAPING/CLOUD CHASING....or whatever you prefer to call it. Remember. We shall only blame ourselves for choosing to smoke in the first place
     
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    DeAnna2112

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    Dr. F has stated that diketones do not belong in eliquids and should be avoided. Kurt has posted some pretty lengthy responses on this forum stating the same. Dr. F has also stated that his testing showed a reduction in lung function in association with the use of diketones. Now someone comes on here stating they vaped a decent amount on a daily basis, i believe it was 10ml a day, and just so happened to be vaping the liquids that turned out to rank the highest on the market for levels of diketones in testing, and this person now states they are experiencing a reduction in lung function and what happens? he is met with attacks and accusations for feeling there is a connection to his problem. Wow! he is experiencing exactly what we are being warned about when it comes to the potential risk of vaping diketones. I know... La La La fingers in ears again!!!

    If we are going to making vaping as safe as possible and a healthy alternative to smoking, then we need to stop this kind of behavior and show some desire to do just that and not deny every single thing just to play politics with those who oppose vaping. I could care less about those people, i care about my own health and the health of others who are trying to better there health first and foremost. Anyone switching from smoking to vaping wants that, not a new way to destroy their lungs all in the name of playing politics which hinders the advancement of making vaping safer.

    If we don't acknowledge there is going to be some problems that will arise with vaping and allow room for improvement along the way, then it's not the gov or ANTZ that is destroying vaping..it's vapers themselves because they refuse to put the advancement of safer vaping first over politics and their need to be right on everything just to show resistance to the opposition. The opposition is going to score a few points along the way folks and the issues raised with diketones is clearly one of them whether we like it or not.
     

    Aspired4Fire

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    :spammers::rickroll:
    Dr. F has stated that diketones do not belong in eliquids and should be avoided. Kurt has posted some pretty lengthy responses on this forum stating the same. Dr. F has also stated that his testing showed a reduction in lung function in association with the use of diketones. Now someone comes on here stating they vaped a decent amount on a daily basis, i believe it was 10ml a day, and just so happened to be vaping the liquids that turned out to rank the highest on the market for levels of diketones in testing, and this person now states they are experiencing a reduction in lung function and what happens? he is met with attacks and accusations for feeling there is a connection to his problem. Wow! he is experiencing exactly what we are being warned about when it comes to the potential risk of vaping diketones. I know... La La La fingers in ears again!!!

    If we are going to making vaping as safe as possible and a healthy alternative to smoking, then we need to stop this kind of behavior and show some desire to do just that and not deny every single thing just to play politics with those who oppose vaping. I could care less about those people, i care about my own health and the health of others who are trying to better there health first and foremost. Anyone switching from smoking to vaping wants that, not a new way to destroy their lungs all in the name of playing politics which hinders the advancement of making vaping safer.

    If we don't acknowledge there is going to be some problems that will arise with vaping and allow room for improvement along the way, then it's not the gov or ANTZ that is destroying vaping..it's vapers themselves because they refuse to put the advancement of safer vaping first over politics and their need to be right on everything just to show resistance to the opposition. The opposition is going to score a few points along the way folks and the issues raised with diketones is clearly one of them whether we like itor not.



    :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
    Best post on this thread yet......:rickroll:
    Just angry people don't want to believe that there precious new hobby isn't flawless. Your inhaling something in your lungs other than that of whats in the air and your body is used to. Of course it has flaws
     
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    Douggro

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    It's been said here many times and I'm going to echo it one time for my gratification: vaping is not 100% safe and I'm not trying to say that it is in any way, shape or form. Are there things that can be done to eliminate as many risks from it as possible, like having diacetyl removed from e-juice? Certainly.

    We just won't get much of a chance to see that happen if misinformation keeps getting sound-bites in the media.

    Need to go start on my daily dose of 600 cans of TAB… :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     

    skoony

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    Dr. F has also stated that his testing showed a reduction in lung function in association with the use of diketones.
    Could you provide a link to this study by the good Dr. F. I am aware he has found diketones
    in the juice when he tested them for their chemical make up. I am unaware he did any studies
    concerning any harm they might be causing. He has done studies on nicotine that found minor
    but not lasting negative effects on tissue.
    Regards
    Mike
     

    skoony

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    he is met with attacks and accusations for feeling there is a connection to his problem. Wow! he is experiencing exactly what we are being warned about when it comes to the potential risk of vaping diketones. I know... La La La fingers in ears again!!!
    No one is attacking him nor making accusations. Being skeptical is not some sort of heinous behavior.
    I wish you would not put other peoples opinions in such an unpleasant light. It's dehumanizing.
    What's that la,la fingers in the ears supposed to mean? We are not children.
    OK,rant over.
    Group hug.
    :2c:
    Regards
    Mike
     
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    tj99959

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    Could you provide a link to this study by the good Dr. F. I am aware he has found diketones
    in the juice when he tested them for their chemical make up. I am unaware he did any studies

    concerning any harm they might be causing. He has done studies on nicotine that found minor
    but not lasting negative effects on tissue.
    Regards
    Mike

    Now you now why some of us have been laughing at this so much.
    HARVARD didn't do any "studies" on it either!!!!!!
    Detecting it's presence is nothing more than a "lab test".
     
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    crxess

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    Honestly........Seems to many overlook or have decided Vaping is a Replacement.

    I have read for my short 3+yrs many goals posted of switching to Vaping as a means to Stop Smoking, with the goal of eventually being done with the habit all together.
    Many have, even before panic set in, moved to DIY and even went to Unflavored as a Preference.

    Seems even more so that Everyone involved, unfortunately including some un-thoughtful Vapers, is trying to Portray Vaping as {...............Diacetyl.............} when it is NOT.

    Pay attention to the Propaganda. Do not beat up other Vapers for having another view. If anything ask why and maybe add to your bank of understanding. Not necessarily agreeing, but understanding.

    Attack the Fear Mongering outsiders and challenge any unscrupulous Business defrauding their clientele.
    ______________________________________________________

    A study says - We picked 70 (X-flavors) and Found, .....Bla....Bla.....Bla. The Very first question needs to be - From Where?
    Were These a Random MARKET Representation?
    Were they Specifically targeted as likely to Meet a chosen criteria?
    Were they from a Known limited group of unscrupulous E-liquid suppliers?
    What percentage of the overall market do they represent? 80% - 1%?

    Questions like these and more need to be asked and truthfully answered for any study, good or bad.
    Only a balance study will ever reveal true results that effect real world usage.
    Only a Balanced study will project true risk exposure.
    ________________________________________________________

    We have seen University Class Projects reveal real world results on amazing applications From mechanics to Medicines in just a few semesters.
    Project application Could produce valuable information on True Dangers(or not) of Diketones within a respectable time line.
    Is it a Valuable, Fund-able study? No, not in the eyes of companies with an agenda. (BP) The very groups that fund these type of projects.
    ____________________________________________________________

    Anyone wishing to Directly address Diketones as an issue:
    Do as many other Vapers have done - Contact the Flavoring Manufacturers with concerns and Ask for Alternative Flavoring with NO Diketones. Ask Manufacturers for Disclosure.
    Demand your Vendor at minimum - Disclose Flavor suppliers used.
    Breaking the Chain(availability) at the Flavoring Manufacturer level eliminates the Risk.
    ____________________________________________________________

    I DIY so it is a bit more difficult for me to understand the complexity in SMART Shopping. I have always compared and questioned everything I get involved with. Just my nature I suppose.
     

    officer196

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    Dr. F has stated that diketones do not belong in eliquids and should be avoided. Kurt has posted some pretty lengthy responses on this forum stating the same. Dr. F has also stated that his testing showed a reduction in lung function in association with the use of diketones. Now someone comes on here stating they vaped a decent amount on a daily basis, i believe it was 10ml a day, and just so happened to be vaping the liquids that turned out to rank the highest on the market for levels of diketones in testing, and this person now states they are experiencing a reduction in lung function and what happens? he is met with attacks and accusations for feeling there is a connection to his problem. Wow! he is experiencing exactly what we are being warned about when it comes to the potential risk of vaping diketones. I know... La La La fingers in ears again!!!

    If we are going to making vaping as safe as possible and a healthy alternative to smoking, then we need to stop this kind of behavior and show some desire to do just that and not deny every single thing just to play politics with those who oppose vaping. I could care less about those people, i care about my own health and the health of others who are trying to better there health first and foremost. Anyone switching from smoking to vaping wants that, not a new way to destroy their lungs all in the name of playing politics which hinders the advancement of making vaping safer.

    If we don't acknowledge there is going to be some problems that will arise with vaping and allow room for improvement along the way, then it's not the gov or ANTZ that is destroying vaping..it's vapers themselves because they refuse to put the advancement of safer vaping first over politics and their need to be right on everything just to show resistance to the opposition. The opposition is going to score a few points along the way folks and the issues raised with diketones is clearly one of them whether we like it or not.
    The subject of his posts were not what drew criticism, it was the manner he explained it and the manner in which he responded to requests for clarification.

    I'll repeat the same thing I posted earlier. When you use clarifiers, redirect, mislead, contradict and omit certain information it is indicative of something else completely. My current license may not be in EMS anymore as his is, but my current field can make that assessment very reasonably. Simply stated, that individual is attempting to create credibility where he has none which presents a different motive.

    As far as fingers in our ears. Don't think anyone has their fingers in their ears either. I think everyone in this forum is very aware of the dangers in vaping. I think most people issue, mine included, is how the NY Times wrote the article which specifically lacked certain information which would put any results in context.

    Some of the issues I noticed in the NY Times article are as follows:
    -When was the study completed vs peer review
    -what were the levels
    - what are the levels in air and cigarettes
    -what were the circumstances and working conditions of those who have contracted popcorn lung so that a valid comparison can be made.
    -what e juice was tested and what is its country of manufacture.

    Now I don't know if the Harvard study itself covers those points, but the fact that they are not in the article means it lacks context.
     

    Aspired4Fire

    Full Member
    Dec 6, 2015
    62
    38
    38
    Honestly........Seems to many overlook or have decided Vaping is a Replacement.

    I have read for my short 3+yrs many goals posted of switching to Vaping as a means to Stop Smoking, with the goal of eventually being done with the habit all together.
    Many have, even before panic set in, moved to DIY and even went to Unflavored as a Preference.

    Seems even more so that Everyone involved, unfortunately including some un-thoughtful Vapers, is trying to Portray Vaping as {...............Diacetyl.............} when it is NOT.

    Pay attention to the Propaganda. Do not beat up other Vapers for having another view. If anything ask why and maybe add to your bank of understanding. Not necessarily agreeing, but understanding.

    Attack the Fear Mongering outsiders and challenge any unscrupulous Business defrauding their clientele.
    ______________________________________________________

    A study says - We picked 70 (X-flavors) and Found, .....Bla....Bla.....Bla. The Very first question needs to be - From Where?
    Were These a Random MARKET Representation?
    Were they Specifically targeted as likely to Meet a chosen criteria?
    Were they from a Known limited group of unscrupulous E-liquid suppliers?
    What percentage of the overall market do they represent? 80% - 1%?

    Questions like these and more need to be asked and truthfully answered for any study, good or bad.
    Only a balance study will ever reveal true results that effect real world usage.
    Only a Balanced study will project true risk exposure.
    ________________________________________________________

    We have seen University Class Projects reveal real world results on amazing applications From mechanics to Medicines in just a few semesters.
    Project application Could produce valuable information on True Dangers(or not) of Diketones within a respectable time line.
    Is it a Valuable, Fund-able study? No, not in the eyes of companies with an agenda. (BP) The very groups that fund these type of projects.
    ____________________________________________________________

    Anyone wishing to Directly address Diketones as an issue:
    Do as many other Vapers have done - Contact the Flavoring Manufacturers with concerns and Ask for Alternative Flavoring with NO Diketones. Ask Manufacturers for Disclosure.
    Demand your Vendor at minimum - Disclose Flavor suppliers used.
    Breaking the Chain(availability) at the Flavoring Manufacturer level eliminates the Risk.
    ____________________________________________________________

    I DIY so it is a bit more difficult for me to understand the complexity in SMART Shopping. I have always compared and questioned everything I get involved with. Just my nature I suppose.

    I agree with you and it should be a stepping block to quitting. But if people are sooooooo worried about what's in the vapor. STOP VAPING! Period. Don't let these stupid reports saying that it's good/bad and the government is out for vapers all that BS change your thinking. I do what I learned to do a long time ago. With everything in life. GO WITH MY GUT FEELING. Done me pretty well so far! Regardless what some faceless name on the Internet might think. That's how it should be
     

    Aspired4Fire

    Full Member
    Dec 6, 2015
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    The subject of his posts were not what drew criticism, it was the manner he explained it and the manner in which he responded to requests for clarification.

    I'll repeat the same thing I posted earlier. When you use clarifiers, redirect, mislead, contradict and omit certain information it is indicative of something else completely. My current license may not be in EMS anymore as his is, but my current field can make that assessment very reasonably. Simply stated, that individual is attempting to create credibility where he has none which presents a different motive.

    As far as fingers in our ears. Don't think anyone has their fingers in their ears either. I think everyone in this forum is very aware of the dangers in vaping. I think most people issue, mine included, is how the NY Times wrote the article which specifically lacked certain information which would put any results in context.

    Some of the issues I noticed in the NY Times article are as follows:
    -When was the study completed vs peer review
    -what were the levels
    - what are the levels in air and cigarettes
    -what were the circumstances and working conditions of those who have contracted popcorn lung so that a valid comparison can be made.
    -what e juice was tested and what is its country of manufacture.

    Now I don't know if the Harvard study itself covers those points, but the fact that they are not in the article means it lacks context.

    Exactly!!! To hell with the NY times and USA today and CNN and all the other media outlets. For your own opinions until there is factual evidence otherwise
     

    officer196

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    Exactly!!! To hell with the NY times and USA today and CNN and all the other media outlets. For your own opinions until there is factual evidence otherwise

    Factual information without context is worthless. I'm sure what Harvard located and what NY times reported are still factual, but without context it means nothing.

    I could tell you drinking water leads to water intoxication, but context tells you it takes a ridiculous amount.
     

    Aspired4Fire

    Full Member
    Dec 6, 2015
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    Factual information without context is worthless. I'm sure what Harvard located and what NY times reported are still factual, but without context it means nothing.

    I could tell you drinking water leads to water intoxication, but context tells you it takes a ridiculous amount.

    But I don't listen to you! I would def listen to Harvard! But that's just me.

    It's funny everyone wants to blame the media and government and the info they put out. We have the right to choose what to believe. If you ask me I believe the company's out there creating more nicotine based products Vape/gum/etc. to take advantage of people's hope to stop smoking are more corrupt than any. Selling their products based on people's hope to free themselves from an addiction they may have had for 10/20/30 years. That's who's opinions I'm not buying into. It's funny you believe that Vaping is so safe when there is no "context" to tell you that besides it may seem "safer". But AGAIN no proof........
     

    Alien Traveler

    Vaping Master
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    Jul 3, 2014
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    But I don't listen to you! I would def listen to Harvard! But that's just me.

    It's funny everyone wants to blame the media and government and the info they put out. We have the right to choose what to believe. If you ask me I believe the company's out there creating more nicotine based products Vape/gum/etc. to take advantage of people's hope to stop smoking are more corrupt than any. Selling their products based on people's hope to free themselves from an addiction they may have had for 10/20/30 years. That's who's opinions I'm not buying into. It's funny you believe that Vaping is so safe when there is no "context" to tell you that besides it may seem "safer". But AGAIN no proof........
    Do you vape?
    What mods/toppers do you use?
     
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