Harvard Eliquid Study Today

[Coldrake]

"In the full text of the manuscript, the authors explain that the main problem caused by diacetyl exposure is a decline in respiratory function characterized by a decline in a spirometry parameter (FEV1)."
A new study verifies the lower risk-potential of e-cigarettes but identifies an avoidable risk

to continue:
"Bronchiolitis obliterans (“popcorn lung disease”) is a rare condition, even in cases of exposure to high levels of diacetyl. The cut-off level of risk calculated by NIOSH for the safety limit is for 1 in 1000 chance of suffering reduced lung function associated with lifelong diacetyl exposure, which is a very conservative estimation. However, many samples contained levels much higher than safety limits. Moreover, unlike tobacco cigarettes where these chemicals are produced during the combustion process, in e-cigarettes they are used as ingredients. Thus, this represents an avoidable risk, which should be removed."

Evaluation of electronic cigarette liquids and aerosol for the presence of selected inhalation toxins

DeAnna2112 is correct that Dr. F. and Kurt Kistler both believe that diketone inhalation is a problem. You all can certainly do a search on Kurt's posts here on ECF, going back quite a number of years, during which he had inkling of suspicions, and I suspect that is why this study was undertaken, as Dr. F. probably also had his suspicions.

When you do those searches you will find that the inhalation of diketones has been a subject of concern by many, all the way back to the beginning of this forum's birth. It just was only being talked about by a rare few back then, and the topics always turned out badly and resulted in closures, etc.

Nothing new in other words.

Been there, read that, a long time ago. You are correct, nothing you posted is anything new.

Dr. F has also stated that his testing showed a reduction in lung function in association with the use of diketones.

What I'm looking for is where Dr. Farsalinos said his testing showed a reduction in lung function in association with the use of diketones. THAT would be something new.

 

[Racehorse]

deleted posted in wrong topic

 

[WillyZee]

I respect you very much for this. If you hear of anyone with persistent respiratory symptoms in the vaping community, please send them my way. I want to compare symptoms and test results. I guess I'll do the legwork to make vaping safer if everyone else wants to be in la la land.

Sad part is, with a couple revisions, we could nearly eliminate smoking related deaths thanks to Vaping (my opinion). Currently, I firmly believe you can do irreversible damage in under a year with the wrong flavors/wattage/consumption rate.

Well it was bad enough for me to spend thousands of dollars on testing. Bad enough to where I can't participate in sports anymore. Bad enough to where I had to switch jobs.

I have test results. It's not like I'm pulling it al out of my ....

And in terms of being smoking related, it would be quite an accomplishment to have a smoking related illness after 7 pack years. And it certainly wouldn't display the same patterns...

I've heard there's money in vaping ... you paid thousands for testing?

doubt you'll even get that back

you in on the 5Pawns action too?

 

[Coldrake]

Well it's certainly difficult to point to tests like that, since there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of studies going on from w/in the vaping industry.

That's why I was curious where DeAnna2112 saw the study she said Dr. Farsalinos had done. As far as I know, no one, including Dr. Farsalinos, have done any studies on lung function in association with the use of diketones in e-liquid. It seems that it would be a pretty far fetched thing to do at this point.

 

[DeAnna2112]

That's why I was curious where DeAnna2112 saw the study she said Dr. Farsalinos had done. As far as I know, no one, including Dr. Farsalinos, have done any studies on lung function in association with the use of diketones in e-liquid. It seems that it would be a pretty far fetched thing to do at this point.

Hmm...maybe i misspoke and misunderstood that Dr. F did these test himself when he was siting test that had been performed elsewhere...my apologies if i mixed that up. Nonetheless, if Dr.F did not feel these were reliable test i doubt he would have mentioned them or gave them any credit. He certainly must have felt they were legit from a legit source to have used it's findings in his research. So aside from misunderstanding that he himself did not perform these test, the facts stand the same in my previous post but should have been worded this way...."according to Dr. F test have shown that diketones reduce lung function."

Nothing has changed because he clearly backs up these test and their findings given he referenced them and used them in his research paper. When Dr. F does not trust a source or it's findings he does not do that and if he does, it's to only point out why he discredits it.

 

[skoony]

Hmm...maybe i misspoke and misunderstood that Dr. F did these test himself when he was siting test that had been performed elsewhere...my apologies if i mixed that up. Nonetheless, if Dr.F did not feel these were reliable test i doubt he would have mentioned them or gave them any credit. He certainly must have felt they were legit from a legit source to have used it's findings in his research. So aside from misunderstanding that he himself did not perform these test, the facts stand the same in my previous post but should have been worded this way...."according to Dr. F test have shown that diketones reduce lung function."

Nothing has changed because he clearly backs up these test and their findings given he referenced them and used them in his research paper. When Dr. F does not trust a source or it's findings he does not do that and if he does, it's to only point out why he discredits it.

Dr. F never elaborated on what his conclusions were based on other than referring to established safety limits.
These limits were set arbitrarily low.
There are no tests I know of where diketones suspended and dispersed in PG and or Vg were tested for toxicity.
Regards
mike

 

[sparkky1]

Regardless whether or not that is the case I still would like to believe that we live in a world where we care about our fellow citizen. It can't be good everybody going around thinking that the government is out to get them. I'm not saying I believe they have my best interest at heart however, I live happily everyday believing that I'm working for something and somebody is fighting for me. I dk about other countries but it's so sad to see America losing its core principles. And the government is not the only ones to blame. Many citizens are the ones to blame for living their lives as if they are the only ones who matter. We ALL matter. No one more or less than another. It's no wonder this world is turning into the way it is. Everything is questioned and therefore nothing can be established. I will still go on believing there is more good in this world than evil. I don't want you feeling sorry for me. If more people believed that that maybe there wouldn't be soooooo many selfish people in this world.

I still watch little house on the prairie .................

 

[classwife]

Has this been posted in here yet ?


See Bill Godshall's thread :

How the media totally exaggerated study on risk of ‘Popcorn Lung’ from e-cigarettes


Dr.Farselinos :

A new study finds diacetyl in e-cigarettes but exaggerates risks and fails to discuss about smoking

and...
Michael Siegal
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: New Study Finds that Average Diacetyl Exposure from Vaping is 750 Times Lower than from Smoking



...the more you know

 

[Alien Traveler]

Has this been posted in here yet ?


See Bill Godshall's thread :

How the media totally exaggerated study on risk of ‘Popcorn Lung’ from e-cigarettes

Are your really reading it?
It says: "Obama DHHS financed..."
You see, for Godshall's point of view is all evil in vaping comes for Obama and only from Obama.
Does it worth reading?
The worst "defender" of vaping you can imagine. Makes laughing stock of vapers.

 

[Douggro]

Are your really reading it?
It says: "Obama DHHS financed..."
You see, for Godshall's point of view all evil in vaping comes for Obama and only from Obama.
Does it worth reading?
The worst "defender" of vaping you can imagine. Makes laughing stock of vapers.

I'm glad I did a double-read of your post, as I first thought you were dragging the Red vs Blue argument in again.

Siegal's response is refreshing, backed with the contextual comparisons that I mentioned early on were lacking from the Harvard 'study'.

Godshall's injection of partisanship into the equation is unfortunate and for fairness doesn't belong in the equation, and he got who funded the study wrong as well. I like to think that vaping shouldn't become a politicized issue on party lines. We're a very diverse demographic on both sides of the aisle (or ISLE, depending ).

 

[David Wolf]

Has this been posted in here yet ?


See Bill Godshall's thread :

How the media totally exaggerated study on risk of ‘Popcorn Lung’ from e-cigarettes


Dr.Farselinos :

A new study finds diacetyl in e-cigarettes but exaggerates risks and fails to discuss about smoking

and...
Michael Siegal
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: New Study Finds that Average Diacetyl Exposure from Vaping is 750 Times Lower than from Smoking



...the more you know

I just read Michael Siegal's blog, very good. Unfortunately most people here on ECF or the world will see how biased the way the Harvard study results were described. I looked at the actual tables in the study, and they paint a picture of far better news than the write up!

 

[Alien Traveler]

I just read Michael Siegal's blog, very good. Unfortunately most people here on ECF or the world will see how biased the way the Harvard study results were described. I looked at the actual tables in the study, and they paint a picture of far better news than the write up!

Unfortunately Siegal blog is biased. He conveniently missed info that some juices are as bad as cigarettes in terms of diacetyl.
We learn we unfortunately cannot really believe not only anti-vaping researchers, but and pro-vaping bloggers also.

 

[David Wolf]

Unfortunately Siegal blog is biased. He conveniently missed info that some juices are as bad as cigarettes in terms of diacetyl.
We learn we unfortunately cannot really believe not only anti-vaping researchers, but and pro-vaping bloggers also.

You will have to show me a study showing "some ejuices" with diactyl levels greater than say, around 6718 micrograms for a ml or two before I believe that... it's not true my friend.
And the only bias Dr. Siegal has is to make it clear that vaping is healthier than smoking, and the data supports that. And so do I.

 

[David Wolf]

Hey. Double post courtesy of iPhone touch screen.

 

[herb]

Most of those test's are not even applicable to how people vape these days , why would they test cigalikes with cartridges anyway , they are the furthest thing from what a typical vapor uses these days .

Juice consumption has gone through the roof especially with these high powered devices and sub ohm tanks . These tests also make it sound like it's a given that every e juice from every e liquid manufacturer (which there is thousands) contains essentially the same amount which is always lower than real cigs lol.

Just the Five Pawns initial test results alone blows that myth out of the water , just a single vendor out of thousands out there clearly revealed sky high levels of these substances that exceeded actual cigarettes so pleaseeeee spare me the levels are always lower BS.

If anyone is interested in looking into it , it is there to be found and was posted awhile back , i myself am not an article and test fetcher.

 

[David Wolf]

Most of those test's are not even applicable to how people vape these days , why would they test cigalikes with cartridges anyway , they are the furthest thing from what a typical vapor uses these days .

Juice consumption has gone through the roof especially with these high powered devices and sub ohm tanks . These tests also make it sound like it's a given that every e juice from every e liquid manufacturer (which there is thousands) contains essentially the same amount which is always lower than real cigs lol.

Just the Five Pawns initial test results alone blows that myth out of the water , just a single vendor out of thousands out there clearly revealed sky high levels of these substances that exceeded actual cigarettes so pleaseeeee spare me the levels are always lower BS.

If anyone is interested in looking into it , it is there to be found and was posted awhile back , i myself am not an article and test fetcher.

Dr. Siegel didn't say every ejuice was safer, nor did I. He addressed the juices in the Harvard study and compared Diacetyl levels to smoking cigarettes. If you want to demonstrate that some juices outside the study are higher in Diacetyl than cigarettes then do so. Post a link or cite your references. Show me the money, claiming "BS" ain't the money. Lol

 

[Coldrake]

Nonetheless, if Dr.F did not feel these were reliable test i doubt he would have mentioned them or gave them any credit. He certainly must have felt they were legit from a legit source to have used it's findings in his research. So aside from misunderstanding that he himself did not perform these test, the facts stand the same in my previous post but should have been worded this way...."according to Dr. F test have shown that diketones reduce lung function."

Nothing has changed because he clearly backs up these test and their findings given he referenced them and used them in his research paper. When Dr. F does not trust a source or it's findings he does not do that and if he does, it's to only point out why he discredits it.

Just for clarification, those tests you are referring to had nothing to do with diacetyl in e-liquid.

 

[Rossum]

You will have to show me a study showing "some ejuices" with diactyl levels greater than say, around 6718 micrograms for a ml or two before I believe that... it's not true my friend.
And the only bias Dr. Siegal has is to make it clear that vaping is healthier than smoking, and the data supports that. And so do I.

Who only vapes one or two ml these days? Pick a juice that tests at 1000µg or higher. There are several of them that are quite popular. Vape 6 or 7 ml a day, which is by no means an extreme amount, and you're there. DL 20 or 30 ml of that same juice a day and you're far exceeding it.

 

[DeAnna2112]

Just for clarification, those tests you are referring to had nothing to do with diacetyl in e-liquid.

Sigh, those test were based on the effects of inhaling diketones and likewise, WE ARE INHALING THEM when we vape...i rest my case.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I read CBS's post this morning. Actually, it was a video and there was no place for comments. I comment on something about once a week or so and this was definitely one to clarify with a comment.