Harvard Eliquid Study Today

[Aspired4Fire]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 17045052" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Do you vape?
What mods/toppers do you use?

Yes
I have an aspire cf sub ohm with Atlantis take. Perfect for my needs. 6mg nicotine and about to go to 3mg. About 3-5 ml a day

 

[Alien Traveler]

Yes
I have an aspire cf sub ohm with Atlantis take. Perfect for my needs. 6mg nicotine and about to go to 3mg. About 3-5 ml a day

So, you are taking huge risk (according to you)! Why?

 

[officer196]

It's funny you believe that Vaping is so safe when there is no "context" to tell you that besides it may seem "safer". But AGAIN no proof........

Well, you'll never hear me utter the words "safe" when it comes to vaping. Safer, yes. Harm reduction, yes. But never safe.

As far as context. There are some very limited studies out there which create some contrast by comparing vaping with analogs. Couple that with how a person feels after analog and it creates context. Now does that create any certainty.....absolutely not! An individual needs to conduct their own risk management.

At the same token if you create a study that says we found xyz in this, you need some context to understand what dangers it presents.

Years ago the big thing was "did you know that same chemical in e liquid is also in antifreeze". While there is some truth to that statement, there are several things in antifreeze, including water. That statement needs context to be relevant.

 

[Aspired4Fire]

So, you are taking huge risk (according to you)! Why?

I am taking a risk by Vaping. I'm simply using it as a stepping block to quitting. I started at 18mg and I'm now down to 6mg. The most factual thing out there about how safe/dangerous Vaping is about that it's not been out long enough to tell. That's the most accurate statement as to whether it's safe or not. The reason why I do it. Because it's an ADDICTION. That I'm working to get through as many other people. This is not a "hobby" for me. I'm not "chasing the massive clouds bro" I'm simply using it as a tool to quit. I have seen progress. But I'm not nieve enough to tell myself that Vaping is harmless. I smoked for 12 years. I never spit up blood once. I started Vaping for 4 months and happened to spit up blood twice. Both in the morning after Vaping a decent amount the night before. I'm not saying that Vaping was the cause. I have heard that Vaping can be drying. I've noticed a little more wheezing. And a lot dryer cough. Not a wet cough like from smoking. Who knows what's better. Hell none of us do for sure. It's all SPECULATION AND PERSONAL OPINION. whatever works best for each individual I'm all for. One day we could find out that it's actually worse for us. Moisture in the lungs is pneumonia. Keep inhaling water in our lungs and we could all have pneumonia someday for all we know.

 

[mattiem]

I truly do feel sorry for those that think that our government has our best interest in mind and actually do care for our health. We are taking more money out of their pockets than what it is costing them to spread all these half truths. University's are partially funded by our government and by taking such funding they are obliged to tow the line.

On top of that, The bread and butter for the 24/7 news outlets is doom and gloom. We now have something that has the potential to end smoking and all we hear from the talking heads is something in the flavoring MAY, I can't stress the word MAY enough, cause problems. Each time this subject comes up there are those that think just because they read it or some news outlet said it, it has to be true.

Please do your own research. It is all right there at your fingertips. It is right here in the testimonies of folks that have been vaping for years. Some since these first became available. Read about how much better they feel. Read about how their Doctors are amazed at how well they are doing now, even after 20, 30, 40 years of smoking before they started this life saving journey.

I know those that believe every article put out by those with an agenda will not read this and see that they have been deceived but I hope they will at least consider that our government, big tobacco and big pharmacy are losing money by the truck load and they are not the least bit happy about it.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I am taking a risk by Vaping. I'm simply using it as a stepping block to quitting. I started at 18mg and I'm now down to 6mg. The most factual thing out there about how safe/dangerous Vaping is about that it's not been out long enough to tell. That's the most accurate statement as to whether it's safe or not. The reason why I do it. Because it's an ADDICTION. That I'm working to get through as many other people. This is not a "hobby" for me. I'm not "chasing the massive clouds bro" I'm simply using it as a tool to quit. I have seen progress. But I'm not nieve enough to tell myself that Vaping is harmless. I smoked for 12 years. I never spit up blood once. I started Vaping for 4 months and happened to spit up blood twice. Both in the morning after Vaping a decent amount the night before. I'm not saying that Vaping was the cause. I have heard that Vaping can be drying. I've noticed a little more wheezing. And a lot dryer cough. Not a wet cough like from smoking. Who knows what's better. Hell none of us do for sure. It's all SPECULATION AND PERSONAL OPINION. whatever works best for each individual I'm all for. One day we could find out that it's actually worse for us. Moisture in the lungs is pneumonia. Keep inhaling water in our lungs and we could all have pneumonia someday for all we know.

OK. I also do not believe vaping is absolutely safe, as I do not believe Big Vape is my friend.
But why are you trying to scare people from vaping?
Buy the way we do not inhale water when vaping, we inhale VG/PG/flavorings aerosol. I'd better inhale water... But I do not want inhale smoke any more.

 

[YoursTruli]

You can also find just as many articles that say Vaping is a 100% safe alternative to smoking. And of course those are driven by the people making the real money off of us vapers. As with TONS of phamasutical Drugs. They hit the market as the next big thing that will save your life. So thousands of people put there trust in it and a doctor prescribes it. A few years later it's PROVEN that this so called drug was the cause of the death or severe medical problem that the person obtained after taking it.It ends up causing the person more problems than if they wouldn't have done anything at all to begin with. Lawsuits ensued. I'm not saying that Vaping is either good or bad and my hope is that it's a great alternative!!!! I myself just refuse to jump on either bandwagon until I know the facts. I'm still Vaping. But let's all just remember that when cigarettes first hit the "market" they were marketed to curve hunger so you could lose weight. We know that they curve hunger be we now know that they can and will kill you in the long term. Same as Vaping. Marketed as a safer alternative to smoking but we just haven't had the time to test them for sure to say what issues they cause the human body if any at all. Time will tell!!! Let's all just pray we like what we here and we don't end up being the "lab rats" in the end.

.....and all the conspiracy nuts come out of the wood works.....This industry is a multi billion $$ business. Of course we are going to see campaigns and articles claiming unproven yet HIGHLY opinionated and financially motivated gibberish..what do ya know, it's election season! My point exactly as I stated above. Let's not get our panties in a wad over a few debatable articles. WAIT FOR THE FACTS PEOPLE!!!!! If your scared your in danger. QUIT SMOKING/VAPING/CLOUD CHASING....or whatever you prefer to call it. Remember. We shall only blame ourselves for choosing to smoke in the first place

But I don't listen to you! I would def listen to Harvard! But that's just me.

It's funny everyone wants to blame the media and government and the info they put out. We have the right to choose what to believe. If you ask me I believe the company's out there creating more nicotine based products Vape/gum/etc. to take advantage of people's hope to stop smoking are more corrupt than any. Selling their products based on people's hope to free themselves from an addiction they may have had for 10/20/30 years. That's who's opinions I'm not buying into. It's funny you believe that Vaping is so safe when there is no "context" to tell you that besides it may seem "safer". But AGAIN no proof........

I am taking a risk by Vaping. I'm simply using it as a stepping block to quitting. I started at 18mg and I'm now down to 6mg. The most factual thing out there about how safe/dangerous Vaping is about that it's not been out long enough to tell. That's the most accurate statement as to whether it's safe or not. The reason why I do it. Because it's an ADDICTION. That I'm working to get through as many other people. This is not a "hobby" for me. I'm not "chasing the massive clouds bro" I'm simply using it as a tool to quit. I have seen progress. But I'm not nieve enough to tell myself that Vaping is harmless. I smoked for 12 years. I never spit up blood once. I started Vaping for 4 months and happened to spit up blood twice. Both in the morning after Vaping a decent amount the night before. I'm not saying that Vaping was the cause. I have heard that Vaping can be drying. I've noticed a little more wheezing. And a lot dryer cough. Not a wet cough like from smoking. Who knows what's better. Hell none of us do for sure. It's all SPECULATION AND PERSONAL OPINION. whatever works best for each individual I'm all for. One day we could find out that it's actually worse for us. Moisture in the lungs is pneumonia. Keep inhaling water in our lungs and we could all have pneumonia someday for all we know.

E-cigarettes around 95% less harmful than tobacco estimates landmark review - Press releases - GOV.UK

 

[ManiacMedic]

Ah - WHAT!!!!

My daughter is a card carrying IDMT, and like many IDMT/IDC's is a EMT-P. Do you even know what an IDMT or IDC is?!? (military medical provider with the same rules of engagement as a PA)
note:
The navy (IDC) doesn't require NREMT certification, but many do it so that they are not in violation of civil law if they help someone.

My niece is a critical care nurse (RN) and has to be emt certified. (-B I think) Every state has their very own set of rules.

Was being sarcastic

 

[jensy]

Glad to see you back Medic. This will be the third time I have asked for this info of yours so perhaps you could answer .

How long did you smoke for?
How much did you smoke?

How long did you vape for?
What device?
What ohm?
What mg?
How many ml a day?

 

[crxess]

I am taking a risk by Vaping. I'm simply using it as a stepping block to quitting. I started at 18mg and I'm now down to 6mg. The most factual thing out there about how safe/dangerous Vaping is about that it's not been out long enough to tell. That's the most accurate statement as to whether it's safe or not. The reason why I do it. Because it's an ADDICTION. That I'm working to get through as many other people. This is not a "hobby" for me. I'm not "chasing the massive clouds bro" I'm simply using it as a tool to quit. I have seen progress. But I'm not nieve enough to tell myself that Vaping is harmless. I smoked for 12 years. I never spit up blood once. I started Vaping for 4 months and happened to spit up blood twice. Both in the morning after Vaping a decent amount the night before. I'm not saying that Vaping was the cause. I have heard that Vaping can be drying. I've noticed a little more wheezing. And a lot dryer cough. Not a wet cough like from smoking. Who knows what's better. Hell none of us do for sure. It's all SPECULATION AND PERSONAL OPINION. whatever works best for each individual I'm all for. One day we could find out that it's actually worse for us. Moisture in the lungs is pneumonia. Keep inhaling water in our lungs and we could all have pneumonia someday for all we know.

You are aware, DNA dependent, you may have - in 12 years of smoking - already done irreversible damage to your body..........or not.
If you have been spitting up Blood - No matter the speculated reason - You should have a Dr. investigate. There are many reasons for spewing Blood, most of which are NOT good and need to be addressed.
Vaping related, highly doubtful, but again that darn DNA thing.......

Do not make assumptions about anything. Smoking, Vaping, foods, health. Know or find out.

 

[Aspired4Fire]

I truly do feel sorry for those that think that our government has our best interest in mind and actually do care for our health. We are taking more money out of their pockets than what it is costing them to spread all these half truths. University's are partially funded by our government and by taking such funding they are obliged to tow the line.

On top of that, The bread and butter for the 24/7 news outlets is doom and gloom. We now have something that has the potential to end smoking and all we hear from the talking heads is something in the flavoring MAY, I can't stress the word MAY enough, cause problems. Each time this subject comes up there are those that think just because they read it or some news outlet said it, it has to be true.

Please do your own research. It is all right there at your fingertips. It is right here in the testimonies of folks that have been vaping for years. Some since these first became available. Read about how much better they feel. Read about how their Doctors are amazed at how well they are doing now, even after 20, 30, 40 years of smoking before they started this life saving journey.

I know those that believe every article put out by those with an agenda will not read this and see that they have been deceived but I hope they will at least consider that our government, big tobacco and big pharmacy are losing money by the truck load and they are not the least bit happy about it.

Regardless whether or not that is the case I still would like to believe that we live in a world where we care about our fellow citizen. It can't be good everybody going around thinking that the government is out to get them. I'm not saying I believe they have my best interest at heart however, I live happily everyday believing that I'm working for something and somebody is fighting for me. I dk about other countries but it's so sad to see America losing its core principles. And the government is not the only ones to blame. Many citizens are the ones to blame for living their lives as if they are the only ones who matter. We ALL matter. No one more or less than another. It's no wonder this world is turning into the way it is. Everything is questioned and therefore nothing can be established. I will still go on believing there is more good in this world than evil. I don't want you feeling sorry for me. If more people believed that that maybe there wouldn't be soooooo many selfish people in this world.

 

[Aspired4Fire]

OK. I also do not believe vaping is absolutely safe, as I do not believe Big Vape is my friend.
But why are you trying to scare people from vaping?
Buy the way we do not inhale water when vaping, we inhale VG/PG/flavorings aerosol. I'd better inhale water... But I do not want inhale smoke any more.

I'm not trying to scare anybody away. If they read what I of all people have to say and put much validity into it than that just re establishes my point again. I'm saying that no one person on this forum should believe all the crap they hear about Vaping until there is tangible evidence. It's no different that all the jargon you heard about all the other "harmful things" they claimed would kill you but now they claim it will cure cancer (hypotheticals). I'm saying don't believe either side of it until there is actual proof. I will say tho that I don't reccomend people to listen what other people on an Internet thread have to say to form an opinion. Like I said 3 times now. If your afraid of what you may be inhaling. Don't Vape. Most people who Vape were obviously afraid of what they were inhaling when they smoked and they are looking for a safer alternative. But it's nieve to believe that someone on here on this forum(unless they are a dr who has researched it extensively) is gonna give them the answer they need. Reassurance is false reassurance unless given to by someone credible. We can all post some internet article we read that says its "around 95% estimated to be better".

 

[Alien Traveler]

We can all post some internet article we read that says its "around 95% estimated to be better".

You should read more carefully. Is site of UK government is equal to "some internet article"?
E-cigarettes around 95% less harmful than tobacco estimates landmark review - Press releases - GOV.UK

 

[Mazinny]

Glad to see you back Medic. This will be the third time I have asked for this info of yours so perhaps you could answer .

How long did you smoke for?
How much did you smoke?

How long did you vape for?
What device?
What ohm?
What mg?
How many ml a day?

Not sure why he isn't responding to your questions. Maybe he doesn't like you !

In any case, he has answered all these questions at some point here on ECF. Check his back posts. He only has a 100 odd posts here. A bunch in late March, early April. A few more in late June, early July and the majority since November.
It's only recently that he is talking about suing. Perhaps he has been motivated by the 5Pawns suit, i don't know. Read his posts in order, perhaps you will read into his motivation and/or progression/regression of his symptoms.

 

[tj99959]

Was being sarcastic

nice back track

 

[Coldrake]

Dr. F has also stated that his testing showed a reduction in lung function in association with the use of diketones.

Could you provide a link to this study by the good Dr. F. I am aware he has found diketones
in the juice when he tested them for their chemical make up. I am unaware he did any studies
concerning any harm they might be causing. He has done studies on nicotine that found minor
but not lasting negative effects on tissue.
Regards
Mike

I'd like to see a link to that study as well.

But I don't listen to you! I would def listen to Harvard! But that's just me.

Yeah, Harvard can certainly be counted on to be unbiased....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/business/03medschool.html?_r=2

 

[skoony]

Not sure why he isn't responding to your questions. Maybe he doesn't like you !

In any case, he has answered all these questions at some point here on ECF. Check his back posts. He only has a 100 odd posts here. A bunch in late March, early April. A few more in late June, early July and the majority since November.
It's only recently that he is talking about suing. Perhaps he has been motivated by the 5Pawns suit, i don't know. Read his posts in order, perhaps you will read into his motivation and/or progression/regression of his symptoms.

@Mazinny . Its very odd but it seems to me he is tailoring his assumptions about what his lung issues
are to correspond to what he thinks the factory workers experienced. This of course is impossible
as no one is really sure what caused what.
If he and his team have figured out something no one else knows about I'm all ears.
Regards
Mike

 

[Mazinny]

@Mazinny . Its very odd but it seems to me he is tailoring his assumptions about what his lung issues
are to correspond to what he thinks the factory workers experienced. This of course is impossible
as no one is really sure what caused what.
If he and his team have figured out something no one else knows about I'm all ears.
Regards
Mike

I honestly don't know what his motivation is and whether the health difficulties he is experiencing are real ( i have no reason to believe they are fabricated ). But i am not going to automatically accept what he is saying either. An anonymous internet poster ( i don't have too much problem if he wants to remain private actually ) , who won't identify the medical facility he is being treated in, is just that and nothing more, as of yet.

 

[Racehorse]

Dr. F has stated that diketones do not belong in eliquids and should be avoided. Kurt has posted some pretty lengthy responses on this forum stating the same. Dr. F has also stated that his testing showed a reduction in lung function in association with the use of diketones.

I'd like to see a link to that study

"In the full text of the manuscript, the authors explain that the main problem caused by diacetyl exposure is a decline in respiratory function characterized by a decline in a spirometry parameter (FEV1)."
A new study verifies the lower risk-potential of e-cigarettes but identifies an avoidable risk

to continue:
"Bronchiolitis obliterans (“popcorn lung disease”) is a rare condition, even in cases of exposure to high levels of diacetyl. The cut-off level of risk calculated by NIOSH for the safety limit is for 1 in 1000 chance of suffering reduced lung function associated with lifelong diacetyl exposure, which is a very conservative estimation. However, many samples contained levels much higher than safety limits. Moreover, unlike tobacco cigarettes where these chemicals are produced during the combustion process, in e-cigarettes they are used as ingredients. Thus, this represents an avoidable risk, which should be removed."

Evaluation of electronic cigarette liquids and aerosol for the presence of selected inhalation toxins

DeAnna2112 is correct that Dr. F. and Kurt Kistler both believe that diketone inhalation is a problem. You all can certainly do a search on Kurt's posts here on ECF, going back quite a number of years, during which he had inkling of suspicions, and I suspect that is why this study was undertaken, as Dr. F. probably also had his suspicions.

When you do those searches you will find that the inhalation of diketones has been a subject of concern by many, all the way back to the beginning of this forum's birth. It just was only being talked about by a rare few back then, and the topics always turned out badly and resulted in closures, etc.

Nothing new in other words.

 

[WharfRat1976]

The misinformation is working and everywhere. I was playing golf with a buddy today who knows nothing about vaping and I was blowing Aromamizer clouds all day. He said to me.....so what's the deal with vaping....they have this thing it causes called........ummmmmm, what's it callef........oh yea........popcorn lung.

I looked at him and said..........right and hit my next shot[emoji17]