Has anyone tried using LiPol Batteries?

[Skuggi]

So I'm thinking of making my own 5v mod and realized I have a few of these laying around. Energizer to go xp1000's built in charging circuit via USB 1000mah @ 5v DC. I've noticed so far everything I've seen is LiIon is there a reason or just cause they're more readily available?

 

[quasimod]

I think the Li-Ions became popular because they have a high energy density to weight ratio. I use LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0 Volt batteries in my GGTS to vape at 6 Volts. The "high-drain" IMR batts are getting really popular due to the rise of "low resistance" atomizers.

 

[Skuggi]

Ok, makes sense thanks.

 

[johnny bobcat]

i think the other reason is that lipol packs are pretty unstable, ive had a few RC Helicopters that use these catch fire while charging

 

[Skuggi]

That's odd but a very good reason, I use them exclusively when working on remote sites to power my cell phones while tethering I know they're high drain but I've never even noticed one heating up.

 

[candre23]

LiPo chemistry is essentially the same as Li-Ion. The difference is that the electrolyte is embedded in a polymer film. This makes the cells themselves more stable than li-ion, but because li-ions are encased in a steel shell, the lipos are more susceptable to physical damage. Since your battery is encased in a mod body anyway, it's pretty much irrelevant either way.

The only other difference is that li-ion cells are available with built-in overvolt/undervolt/thermal protection circuits, while lipos are not. The mod itself will require protection circuits if you want to use lipo safely.

Not that any of this is really helpful to you, but I just wanted to make it clear that lipo is not inherently any less safe than li-ion. The same physical and electronic safety requirements apply to both, but li-ion cells just have them built-in from the factory. There is no reason that a properly constructed lipo mod wouldn't be every bit as safe (or unsafe, depending on how you want to look at it) as a li-ion mod. If you have the lipo cells on hand and don't mind doing the extra work, then go for it.

 

[whiskey]

I like the IMR bats...

 

[Skuggi]

hey candre thanks, no information is ever non-helpful.

I already have a few plans running around in my head and while I'm new to vaping I'm not that new to electronics but there are huge gaps in knowledge with me for using vaping and electronics together

 

[clyde2801]

I think the Li-Ions became popular because they have a high energy density to weight ratio. I use LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0 Volt batteries in my GGTS to vape at 6 Volts. The "high-drain" IMR batts are getting really popular due to the rise of "low resistance" atomizers.

Love the tenergys, charger not so much.

 

[WillyB]

So I'm thinking of making my own 5v mod and realized I have a few of these laying around. Energizer to go xp1000's built in charging circuit via USB 1000mah @ 5v DC. I've noticed so far everything I've seen is LiIon is there a reason or just cause they're more readily available?

Well the rated output of 5V@500mAh is basically useless for vaping.

I think the Li-Ions became popular because they have a high energy density to weight ratio. I use LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0 Volt batteries in my GGTS to vape at 6 Volts. The "high-drain" IMR batts are getting really popular due to the rise of "low resistance" atomizers.

For Joye 510 users the 3V Tenergy Li-POs are a nice choice. 6V vaping, not really. A freshly charged pair will operate a Joye 510 at 5.18V, and that's only for the first few minutes before settling into < 5V territory.

 

[clyde2801]

After having intermittent charging problems, I finally took my tenergy lifepo4s and charger to batteries unlimited in MWC, OK.

Turns out I had two dead batteries; I may have over discharged them. Heh-heh.

He was also trying to find the charging problem when he noticed a couple of divots in my batteries. Looks like I had overtightened them a bit when stacking them, and the positive ends pushed up the negative ends to create the divots.

His solution was to insert a bit of tinfoil in the divots when I inserted the batteries into the charger to create contact. Perfectly safe, and an effective, low cost way to ensure I get all the life out of these batteries that I can. Now, to just make sure I don't overtighten the remaining tenergys when I use them in my GGTS.

Gotta sing the praises of a good brick and mortar battery store that's staffed by knowledgable staff with a customer service ethic. It cost a little more to buy my stuff there, but if I bought my stuff online I would have probably got a whole new kit by now to avoid the frustration out of ignorance.

 

[ThePuck]

Well the rated output of 5V@500mAh is basically useless for vaping.

If you are using a 510 or other lower resistance atomizer then yes, it is pretty much useless but if you are using a higher resistance atomizer like the 901, then it works really well. I get over 24 hours with a 901 using 4 AAA 850mah rechargable batteries. Thats 4.8 volts at 850mah. You just won't get 24 hours, maybe 14 to 18 hours with a 901.

Now if you use two of the batteries in parallel, you will still have your 5 volts and 1000mah, enough to run the 901 atomizer for quite a long time (a day and a half or more).

Running a 510 or other lower resistance atty, the results would not be that good as WillyB stated.

 

[WillyB]

If you are using a 510 or other lower resistance atomizer then yes, it is pretty much useless but if you are using a higher resistance atomizer like the 901, then it works really well. I get over 24 hours with a 901 using 4 AAA 850mah rechargable batteries. Thats 4.8 volts at 850mah. You just won't get 24 hours, maybe 14 to 18 hours with a 901...

Oops I messed up. I should have said the USB port outputs 5V @ 500mA (not mAh). Which has nothing to do with the capacity of the battery in mAh (hours).

If someone tried to power an atty direct from the USB port there is not enough current available.

A Joye 510 (2.2Ω) @ 500mA would only yield 1.1V

A DSE 901 (3.7Ω) @ 500mA only 1.85V

 

[ThePuck]

Oops I messed up. I should have said the USB port outputs 5V @ 500mA (not mAh). Which has nothing to do with the capacity of the battery in mAh (hours).

If someone tried to power an atty direct from the USB port there is not enough current available.

A Joye 510 (2.2Ω) @ 500mA would only yield 1.1V

A DSE 901 (3.7Ω) @ 500mA only 1.85V

Now that makes sense I agree with you totally there on 500 mA. totally useless

I do have a 901 passthrough that I have not yet disected to see how it works but it uses no battery (from what I can tell, because it's almost too light to have a battery in it) but yet runs my 901 atty just fine. I run it off my laptop usb port. I haven't checked the current or anything. I didn't want to tear it apart yet since it works so well Who knows, maybe there is a very small battery in it but the thing has no weight at all, at least not like a regular 901 battery.

 

[WillyB]

Now that makes sense I agree with you totally there on 500 mA. totally useless

I do have a 901 passthrough that I have not yet disected to see how it works but it uses no battery (from what I can tell, because it's almost too light to have a battery in it) but yet runs my 901 atty just fine. I run it off my laptop usb port...

I would imagine you'd find that the center pins, D-/D+, are being used, not just the two end power pins/lines.

In Battery Charging Specification, new powering modes are added to the USB specification. A host or hub Charging Downstream Port can supply a maximum of 1.5 A when communicating at low-bandwidth or full-bandwidth, a maximum of 900 mA when communicating at high-bandwidth, and as much current as the connector will safely handle when no communication is taking place; USB 2.0 standard-A connectors are rated at 1500 mA by default. A Dedicated Charging Port can supply a maximum of 1.8 A of current at 5.25 V. A portable device can draw up to 1.8 A from a Dedicated Charging Port. The Dedicated Charging Port shorts the D+ and D- pins with a resistance of at most 200Ω. The short disables data transfer, but allows devices to detect the Dedicated Charging Port and allows very simple, high current chargers to be manufactured. The increased current (faster, 9 W charging) will occur once both the host/hub and devices support the new charging specification.

 

[ThePuck]

I would imagine you'd find that the center pins, D-/D+, are being used, not just the two end power pins/lines.

In Battery Charging Specification, new powering modes are added to the USB specification. A host or hub Charging Downstream Port can supply a maximum of 1.5 A when communicating at low-bandwidth or full-bandwidth, a maximum of 900 mA when communicating at high-bandwidth, and as much current as the connector will safely handle when no communication is taking place; USB 2.0 standard-A connectors are rated at 1500 mA by default. A Dedicated Charging Port can supply a maximum of 1.8 A of current at 5.25 V. A portable device can draw up to 1.8 A from a Dedicated Charging Port. The Dedicated Charging Port shorts the D+ and D- pins with a resistance of at most 200Ω. The short disables data transfer, but allows devices to detect the Dedicated Charging Port and allows very simple, high current chargers to be manufactured. The increased current (faster, 9 W charging) will occur once both the host/hub and devices support the new charging specification.

Ahhhh... now it all makes sense. That's how they are able to do it without a battery so I will spare my passthrough from the evils of cutters and disassembly. Depending on how old that information is, some people may not be able to use the USB directly unless that is really old info in which case anyone should be able to.

 

[Dave Rickey]

I've been happy with the performance of the flatpacks in my Lenmar PPUMINI's and DigiPowers, and I'm planning on some more experiments with flatpacks. LiPoly flatpacks can handle 10C discharge rates without breaking a sweat, where 2C from much larger cylindrical batteries is pushing it. Lenmar with the 500mAh flatpacks barely hit 4-5C on an eCig, which is nothing for a flatpack.

The risks are two-fold: Mechanical damage, and over-discharge. A cylindrical battery has a steel casing and is hard to mechanically damage, while a flatpacks have only a thin metal skin and are easy to dent. A dented cell is a dangerous cell, capable of bursting into flame even with no current being drawn. Over-discharge is easier to fall into with a flatpack than a cylindrical cell, because the flatpack will keep pushing high current even as voltage falls under the 2.7V danger level. So undervoltage protection is important.

--Dave

 

[quasimod]

I have read reports of odd mouse behavior from people using PTs on their laptops, and it reminds me of how my touchpad malfunctioned when I plugged it into a cheap DC to AC power inverter. I don't understand the connection between power source, USB power drain, and pointing devices, but it causes me to think that something is being pushed beyond it's design limits. I personally wouldn't plug a "direct" PT (the type with no in-line battery) into my computer's USB port, because a 510 atty can easily use more than 1.5 A. Now Admittedly, I don't know much about lekjuicity, but I don't like to push equipment to it's limits. That's when stuff really starts breaking.

As for new battery ideas: I'm FOR it. Now I'll remove my ill-informed self from this conversation and let the grown-ups talk.