Hate to admit it, but I miss Canada Post

[rolandpibb]

Why do you care about the strike then? If UPS is so great, and privatization is the answer, you already have it, use it.

Oh, but unless you want to send an overnight letter Toronto to Montreal and don't mind paying $90 they don't really want your business right? Sending a postcard to Grandma in Upper Rubber Boot isn't even an option, they just don't go there. They will however charge you 3 times Canada Post rate, then hand it off to Canada Post to deleiver for you.

This is what happens when company profit is held above all. You don't care about the workers, but how about when it affects you?

I am so torn on this issue. I like to lean pretty far to the Left, but this is an "essential service"

I think if the two sides cannot come together within a reasonable amount of time then an arbitrator should be appointed to "split the difference"

I appreciate the Govt. trying to end the dispute, but they cannot offer less than Canada Post was.

And what the hell is the NDP doing? I know that they're just trying to stall while the union and CP and try and work it out. But talks have broken off.

It does not look like we'll get a solution that anybody will like

 

[Kams Cats]

The one thing I don't like is the Conservatives forcing workers back to work with a WORSE package than what CP was offering. Feels very cheeky to me.

I don't like that either. I do like how you put it. Cheeky. Yep it feels cheeky to me too. Maybe because I work two part time jobs at crappy pay to make ends meet. Seeing tactics like that pulled on workers by some very overpaid MP's does get my back up a bit.

 

[dopeh]

With opinion like above, I hope you guys are company executives, or large enough share holders that it is your primary income.

Downward wage pressure and governments forcing working back to work, is a scary environment for all workers. Bitter the postal workers possibly make more than you, want to see them get knocked down a notch? Ok, but remember once the ball start rolling on this you can be certain downward wage pressure without any right to barging or strike is going to affect your wage, whatever it is, wherever you work. 48,000 workers are forced to take a 2%, lower than inflation raise, care to guess what yours will be on even your lower wage?

“I won’t be getting a raise at all next year, I haven’t got one for the past 5 years!!” Well my friend, sound like you work for a crappy company, as considering inflation you are getting paid less and less for your work each year, I wonder are you doing less work with less skill each progressive year? Why didn’t you just follow the advice “If you don’t like Ford go work for Toyota” where you would’ve got a raise. Guess that advice wasn’t as easy as it sounds was it?

At one time it was a source of pride for a company that they paid their workers well, and the workers would make a whole career out of working for one company. Now it’s, let’s find the cheapest labor we can and make the most money for shareholders. I’m a bit shocked that the people who it hurts the most, the workers, support it the most. Its shooting yourself in the foot.

The job should go to the person who will do it the cheapest, is what we are hearing here. Well my friends, if you think the postal workers are overpaid compared to you, it is nothing comparing YOUR wage to someone who will do your job in China. Going that route, there will be no jobs here.

I am surprised that a government that claims to support the free market would force workers to work, and set their wage. The government tells you to work and how much for, sounds a bit too much like some other countries we criticize and suggest are not free.

Why do you care about the strike then? If UPS is so great, and privatization is the answer, you already have it, use it.

Oh, but unless you want to send an overnight letter Toronto to Montreal and don't mind paying $90 they don't really want your business right? Sending a postcard to Grandma in Upper Rubber Boot isn't even an option, they just don't go there. They will however charge you 3 times Canada Post rate, then hand it off to Canada Post to deleiver for you.

This is what happens when company profit is held above all. You don't care about the workers, but how about when it affects you?

I like having a state owned mail service. What I don't like is a mailbox full of junk mail that only exists to pay exorbitant salaries as compared to identical positions in other companies. Who pays to haul all that crap away? I agree that government shouldn't meddle with wages etc except in the case of state owned services - the state owns the essential service it should be permitted some involvement.

I make a lot more than a postal worker, and feel that companies tend to pay the most they are able to remain profitable and competitive against the cheap Chinese goods you mention. This postal union is asking for money that isn't there, for workers that can't be fired, who already get loads of extra money over the competition - money that could be going to Canadians.

Have a great day everyone

 

[Switched]

"above" refers to all the posts above. If I was talking about yours only I would've quoted it. Sorry about the confusion.

Why do you care about the strike then? If UPS is so great, and privatization is the answer, you already have it, use it.

Oh, but unless you want to send an overnight letter Toronto to Montreal and don't mind paying $90 they don't really want your business right? Sending a postcard to Grandma in Upper Rubber Boot isn't even an option, they just don't go there. They will however charge you 3 times Canada Post rate, then hand it off to Canada Post to deleiver for you.

This is what happens when company profit is held above all. You don't care about the workers, but how about when it affects you?

You posted your opinion and folks have posted theirs. You do not have to accept their opinions but at the same time you need not brow beat anyone in accepting yours either. We have heard your verse, now please move on!

 

[Can_supplier]

I agree that government shouldn't meddle with wages etc except in the case of state owned services - the state owns the essential service it should be permitted some involvement.

First you are right, they should have some involvement they own it. They control it, which means they put in place its director and management. Why do they have to use legislation to get their workers back to work? Every other company out there doesn't have that option. GM can't just legislate their workers back to work. It is an abuse of power and a scary precedent.

Essential service? How so? You can still mail anything you want by other means. Inconvenient sure, but far from essential. IF the police for example strike there would be mayhem. That is an essential service. How about a steel mill? If they strike it could shut down the car assembly line, and long term create a shortage of cars and an increase in the cost of cars. Does that make steel workers an essential service also?

As a further thought, if I needed something and it was essential to get it, I most likely wouldn't use Canada Post.

 

[rolandpibb]

Essential service? How so? You can still mail anything you want by other means. Inconvenient sure, but far from essential.

You can't. Anything sent through the postal system is by definition; mail.

Businesses will not stay in business if shipping rates for bills climb from $0.59 to a courier rate of $9.00 or above

 

[Eileithia]

You can't. Anything sent through the postal system is by definition; mail.

Businesses will not stay in business if shipping rates for bills climb from $0.59 to a courier rate of $9.00 or above

Short term maybe. but if you're shipping a letter for $9.00 as a business you seriously need to work on your negotiation skills with your courier. We ship small packages across the country with couriers (UPS / Puro) for under $3.00. Letters are still more expensive than $0.59 but not by much.

Also, supply and demand will eventually give couriers the ability to bring pricing in line. The more "mail" they have in the system, the more they are delivering in each truck, and the hard cost for each delivery ends up being less.

Also there are very few "Paper" letters that need to be sent these days. Legal documents really being the only thing you need in hard copy, and really should be sent via Courier anyhow so you have tracking and signature requirements. Bills, letters, cards, invitations, pay cheques, CAN all be done electronically if physical delivery is cost prohibitive.

 

[Can_supplier]

You can't. Anything sent through the postal system is by definition; mail.

Businesses will not stay in business if shipping rates for bills climb from $0.59 to a courier rate of $9.00 or above

I don't see a single e-cig retailer offering a billing my mail option. We are all still around.

 

[Can_supplier]

Also, supply and demand will eventually give couriers the ability to bring pricing in line. The more "mail" they have in the system, the more they are delivering in each truck, and the hard cost for each delivery ends up being less..

Great point.

There is the free market. The right to strike is the free market. Strike to long the above happens.

Government and back to work legislation HAS NO PLACE in a country such as ours!!

 

[Eileithia]

I don't see a single e-cig retailer offering a billing my mail option. We are all still around.

Agreed, I work for a large distributor (Billion dollar company) and we haven't been sending paper invoices or cheques by mail for over 2 years. We use Post only when absolutely necessary, but the vast majority of our business is via courier. All of our vendors and most of our customers are on a direct deposit / wire transfer system. All employee pay is direct deposit. All pay stubs are electronic.

 

[rolandpibb]

Agreed, I work for a large distributor (Billion dollar company) and we haven't been sending paper invoices or cheques by mail for over 2 years. We use Post only when absolutely necessary, but the vast majority of our business is via courier. All of our vendors and most of our customers are on a direct deposit / wire transfer system. All employee pay is direct deposit. All pay stubs are electronic.

Not every home, small or medium sized business has that option. One of the companies I work for bills around $1.4 mil per year. Some of the clients don't even have email addresses.

They send out hundreds of invoices each month and every single one pays by cheque. Neither the company, nor the clients can afford solely courier options, never mind systems overhauls.

 

[Can_supplier]

Neither the company, nor the clients can afford solely courier options, never mind systems overhauls.

Don't worry. Government wage imposed, forced labor is on its way to help you out.

Much easier to force someone to work for an imposed wage, rather than figure out alternative and implement a current system. Just like the thinking in the South at the turn of the last century.

Our plantation can't afford machines and automation to pick that cotton!

 

[Eileithia]

Not every home, small or medium sized business has that option. One of the companies I work for bills around $1.4 mil per year. Some of the clients don't even have email addresses.

They send out hundreds of invoices each month and every single one pays by cheque. Neither the company, nor the clients can afford solely courier options, never mind systems overhauls.

I agree it would be much harder for a small /medium sized business owner, but by no means impossible. The options are out there should the postal system ever dissolve. As for invoices/bills being delivered at higher costs you can give your customers the option. Do what the lawyers do, bill them for the paperwork. Electronic invoices and direct deposits are free, otherwise there's a delivery charge. Be up front about it, and I'm sure the customers would be willing to go electronic to save the added expense, and in the long run I'm sure it would be cheaper than what you're paying now for postage

 

[rolandpibb]

I agree it would be much harder for a small /medium sized business owner, but by no means impossible. The options are out there should the postal system ever dissolve. As for invoices/bills being delivered at higher costs you can give your customers the option. Do what the lawyers do, bill them for the paperwork. Electronic invoices and direct deposits are free, otherwise there's a delivery charge. Be up front about it, and I'm sure the customers would be willing to go electronic to save the added expense, and in the long run I'm sure it would be cheaper than what you're paying now for postage

I live in a rural setting with lots of "old money". Some clients cannot be convinced of the benefits of electronica.

Passing higher costs on to customers when there is a razor thin margin already is not an option.

 

[rachelcoffe]

I've been watching the debate in the House, it's still occurring live right now...and what I've seen has confirmed my lack of faith in the Conservatives. They sound like a broken record: "Canadians need mail delivery, so support our bill."

The opposition keeps replying: "Um, if you will unlock the doors at Canada Post, which you locked..then we'll have mail delivery! This bill's passage is not required to resume mail service. That's something you could do right now. We'd have mail delivery, while the lawful negotiation process between workers and CP continues."

You see? The Cons position is indefensible. "We have to get mail delivery going again, and please don't take notice of the fact that we're the ones preventing that!"

---

The Conservatives say: "This back-to-work legislation is needed."

The opposition says: "No one is saying that back-to-work legislation is necessarily bad; but at this time, and in its present form...this would essentially tell employers such as CP that they have no reason to put any good faith or effort into collective bargaining. This would, practically speaking, release CP from that legal obligation. Therefore, this legislation undermines the validity of, and the exercise of, workers' rights."

Did you know that Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 2007 that collective bargaining is a right protected under the Charter? Yeah...that's Harper for you. He doesn't give a damn about Charter rights.

---

The Conservatives keep going on about the previous rolling strikes, and ignoring the lockout. The opposition keeps pointing out that it's the lockout to blame here...and the Conservatives ignore them.

---

For my part...I'm ready to have the whole process sent to a court for judicial review. I have no doubt that an honest judge would - upon review of the evidence - rule that CP has definitively failed to act in good faith. Employers are required by law to bargain in good faith during negotiations with their unionized employees. Especially when the employer is the Government of Canada. Since this good faith is a legal requirement, it should be subject to judicial review with an appropriate test to determine whether or not the requirement is being fulfilled.

Canada Post is failing to carry out its mandate, period. The workers have, at every turn, offered to make things work. They've offered countless offers over many months that received no serious consideration. Even after the limited, rolling strikes...the workers offered to resume 100% full work under the same contract that they'd had for the last 4 years. In response to this generous offer, CP decided to prevent mail service altogether.

Canada Post is the only one who has failed to actually do their duty here. Their upper management should be severely penalized, if not fired & replaced, for this whole brouhaha.

 

[Can_supplier]

Passing higher costs on to customers when there is a razor thin margin already is not an option.

How can you not pass on the cost of "the check is in the mail" excuse you have to follow up on 10 times? "Lost" invoices, bounced checks, checks not for the full amount, delinquent accounts.. Uggg.. Forget the cost of postage.

I wouldn't want to touch a mailed invoice, check payment system, the cost of doing business that way would make my margin razor thin also.

My customers do get mad at us sometimes because we can't offer credit cards, due to restrictions from the card processors against this industry. I'm sure every other online business would tell you that without credit cards you are dead. However when you don't have the option you find ways around it, and the customers do end up working with it. I know because of the e-cig retail in Canada there are many people using Interac e-transfers who would not have otherwise.

Switch your customers over. Rather than changing the a fee for the paper invoice service, give them a discount for using the electronic one. We offer a discount for interac payment because it save us money, we don’t have to spend on labor to track the COD’s.

If electronic means save you 15%, offer your customer 5%. You both end up winning.

 

[heXy]

I personally feel that we here are divided on our thoughts due to the way the CPC handled the situation. It non-the-less shows us that this service is something that's still offered, therefor used, therefor needed; like any other service.

If CPC handled this with any respect to the employees and us, the customers; the tone would have been different. But they didn't give notice, they just locked their doors. To be honest, the whole thing seems like it was staged lol

The union knew full well that stopping ad-mail was destructive, if not; the union reps are stupid. And the Corporation knew that locking the doors would do more damage.

But they also knew Big Brother would step in and make everything chaotic.

Edit: I wish it would have been solved in the time they already had, long before the strike and lockout. My item has been here in Mississauga since June 9th... So I'm a little mad that it was overlooked and not shipped in the two days prior to the GTA strike.

Their customer service needs an overhaul.

 

[Eileithia]

Passing higher costs on to customers when there is a razor thin margin already is not an option.

We work on razor thin margins. I have vendors that I manage that are literally working on basis point margins (Fractions of a percent). If you are in a low margin business and your customers want to maintain their current pricing they need to understand there are costs associated with doing business. If you're upfront with your customers regarding these costs, especially now with the lock-out, MOST customers are very understanding. For the ones who aren't (Which I find are usually the smaller accounts) you bury the costs in their price and move on. Ultimately if you lose a customer you can't afford to keep it's not worth keeping them. You shouldn't ever pay your customers to do business with them, that's just bad business.

I frequently have to agrue with US vendors who don't understand the geography of Canada and the "Cost of business" when working in this country. Shipping fees, import duities, brokerage all add to the cost of the products. We're not another state, no matter how much some of these huge manufcaturers treat us as such. They eventually realize they have to pay for these things or they have to increase their selling prices. Those are the only options.

Example: I had a vendor who was expecting us to go to market with 5% margins on a product that has a 7% import duity (not to mention any of the other factors). It literally took 2 months to get it through their heads that we were not going to sell their products for >2% under our landed cost, and they either had to reduce their price to us, or increase their MSRP at Retail. They eventually increased their MSRP and still sold a ton of product.

 

[Switched]

I've been watching the debate in the House, it's still occurring live right now...and what I've seen has confirmed my lack of faith in the Conservatives. They sound like a broken record: "Canadians need mail delivery, so support our bill."

The opposition keeps replying: "Um, if you will unlock the doors at Canada Post, which you locked..then we'll have mail delivery! This bill's passage is not required to resume mail service. That's something you could do right now. We'd have mail delivery, while the lawful negotiation process between workers and CP continues."

You see? The Cons position is indefensible. "We have to get mail delivery going again, and please don't take notice of the fact that we're the ones preventing that!"

---

The Conservatives say: "This back-to-work legislation is needed."

The opposition says: "No one is saying that back-to-work legislation is necessarily bad; but at this time, and in its present form...this would essentially tell employers such as CP that they have no reason to put any good faith or effort into collective bargaining. This would, practically speaking, release CP from that legal obligation. Therefore, this legislation undermines the validity of, and the exercise of, workers' rights."

Did you know that Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 2007 that collective bargaining is a right protected under the Charter? Yeah...that's Harper for you. He doesn't give a damn about Charter rights.

---

The Conservatives keep going on about the previous rolling strikes, and ignoring the lockout. The opposition keeps pointing out that it's the lockout to blame here...and the Conservatives ignore them.

---

For my part...I'm ready to have the whole process sent to a court for judicial review. I have no doubt that an honest judge would - upon review of the evidence - rule that CP has definitively failed to act in good faith. Employers are required by law to bargain in good faith during negotiations with their unionized employees. Especially when the employer is the Government of Canada. Since this good faith is a legal requirement, it should be subject to judicial review with an appropriate test to determine whether or not the requirement is being fulfilled.

Canada Post is failing to carry out its mandate, period. The workers have, at every turn, offered to make things work. They've offered countless offers over many months that received no serious consideration. Even after the limited, rolling strikes...the workers offered to resume 100% full work under the same contract that they'd had for the last 4 years. In response to this generous offer, CP decided to prevent mail service altogether.

Canada Post is the only one who has failed to actually do their duty here. Their upper management should be severely penalized, if not fired & replaced, for this whole brouhaha.

... and allow me to apply for the position. Yeah right

 

[kanadiankat]

On the debate at hand - some people are missing the major point of having a national post. Pretty much every country in the world has one. It's just not something that can be adequately privatized.

There is an issue of human rights that sits at the core of postal services. Right now Canada Post is obligated to ensure that every household has a box or home delivery address. Regardless of where they are located or how much money they have.

There is no such law on electronic communication - which requires someone to purchase a computer or device and then pay a private company to supply a connection service. Some of the poorest people in our nation can afford neither and likely never will. There are also people so immured in debt - they can't open a bank account (these people usually get paid in paper cheques that are cashed at money loan centers).

There is also no way to obligate a private company to deliver to every address - or any address for that matter - if they chose not to. There are a number of addresses in Canada that couriers will already not deliver to and I highly doubt any of them would have the cash to purchase all the mailboxes from Canada Post and still offer the same service at a similar or acceptable price.

I do miss Canada Post. Wish they would get their act together and just compromise a bit. ...not that I mind the entertainment going on in parliament....

....or the idea of hiring Switched to manage CP....