Hawaii public hearing Tuesday 2/11/14 9:30 AM on SB2222 to ban the sale of all flavored tobacco products including vapor products

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dr g

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This is a particularly disgusting one. Typical anti-tobacco rhetoric is cited and "electronic smoking devices" are just grafted on with no regard.

Measure Status

SB2222

Report Title: Flavored tobacco Products; Tobacco Products; Electronic Smoking Devices; Menthol; Penalties
Description: Prohibits the sale, offering for sale, or distribution of any flavored tobacco product, including menthol products and electronic smoking devices, within the State beginning on January 1, 2015.
 

Hulamoon

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Cross posting from Volcano vendor thread:

SB 2222

I am writing to express my deepest concern with SB 2222 concerning the ban of e-cigarette flavorings.

Vaping is a harm reduction program. The flavors are for us ex-smokers who are afraid that sticking with "tobacco flavorings" will just encourage our reversion to smoking cigarettes.

As adults we have the right to choose the flavors. Alcohol is being sold in many flavors and cocktail blends nowadays. It is designed, marketed and, in my opinion, much more attractive to a teenager than a boring old bottle of vodka or gin on a shelf used to be.

If you look at the chemicals in a legally approved tobacco product, you will find arsenic, MOAI's, (anti depressants), nail polish remover, ammonia, formaldehyde and on and on. These add-ins are designed to make quitting nearly impossible. They are available to anyone over the age of 18. Sure, there are those who have quit but the majority have found it a huge challenge and have failed time after time.

Why on earth would us have-been smokers want to go back that?

We are an industry leader of vaping products right here in Hawaii. The integrity and purity of the products offered for sale here set a very high bar. By banning the flavorings, you are not only shutting down jobs here in Hawaii but actively encouraging a black market. This sounds very much like a ploy by big tobacco companies to shut down jobs here in Hawaii and then produce their own "e-cigarettes" elsewhere, with ALL the chemicals and health dangers of regular cigarettes.

Please show Hawaii that it is your citizens health that you care about, and not the health of self-serving tobacco and pharmaceutical corporations and thank you for reading this.
 

Hulamoon

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Another cross post - will work on the others later. Come on guys! We have GOT to get real, and real soon. Hearings are on Tuesday morning so today's the time to get your testimony in if you can or cannot attend the hearing.

SB 2495


I am writing to express my deepest concern with the recent bills pertaining to vaping devices. I would like to offer some facts in regards to "e-cigarettes".

Is it smoking?

Calling an e-cigarette a smoking device is erroneous. There is no burning, and there isn't any secondhand smoke concern. To call the water vapor from a vaping device "smoke" and banning it accordingly, is akin to telling a warm eskimo on a very cold day to quit breathing or you'll take him to jail - because he's obviously "smoking".

Banning vaping devices wherever smoking is banned is impossible to enforce. There is no smoke, no odour, no residue on walls, nothing.

Is it dangerous?

"E-cigarettes" have been around for years. I guarantee you that if there was even one single meaningful scientific study that indicated that vaping is dangerous to either the user or anyone around him/her, then Pfizer, the Heart Association the Lung Association and all the others would have been all over it like fleas on a dog.

In fact all these companies/"organizations" in spite of their major funding sources from pharmaceutical and tobacco funding have already been rejected at federal level.

Why does vaping exist?

If you look at the chemicals in a legally approved tobacco product, you will find arsenic, MOAI's, (anti depressants), nail polish remover, ammonia, formaldehyde and on and on. These add-ins are designed to make quitting nearly impossible. They are available to anyone over the age of 18. Sure, there are those who have quit but the majority have found it a huge challenge and have failed time after time.

I can personally attest to the uselessness and ineffectiveness of pharma smoking cessation products. I hear often of 3-pack-a day, 50 year smokers finally being able to quit with vaping when all the other products have failed.

Vaping has allowed many of us ex-smokers to be just that. Yes, there may - or may not - be nicotine in vaping products. But there is also nicotine in over the counter smoking cessation products that have had years to prove themselves and failed dismally. In fact there are prescription inhalers that have MORE chemicals in them than vaping liquid, - and are approved for children over the age of 12! Yes! 12!

Aren't flavors designed to encourage children to try this?

No. Vaping is a harm reduction program. The flavors are for us ex-smokers who are afraid that sticking with "tobacco flavorings" will just encourage our reversion to smoking cigarettes.

As adults we have the right to choose the flavors. Alcohol is being sold in many flavors and cocktail blends nowadays. It is designed, marketed and, in my opinion, much more attractive to a teenager than a boring old bottle of vodka or gin on a shelf used to be.

Let's not forget that vaping itself can be quite an expensive endeavor. Sadly, the cost of trying [edit:] illegal things [end edit] is cheaper.

In summary, while the usual suspects can point at dwindling number of smokers, it isn't through anything they have personally accomplished. It's because more exciting possibilities have presented themselves to the younger generation. Sadly these options are just as, or more deadly even than cigarettes.

Vaping has proved itself time and time again to be the very best harm reduction product on the market and one which has proved life saving for those of us who used to smoke and may well be why the folks of Pfizer and the "smoking cessation sponsorships" of big tobacco companies are so desperate to see it go away.

I sincerely request that you consider the health benefits to us older folk who have finally found a way out from life threatening cigarettes and thank you so much for reading.
 

dr g

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Pfizer, Astrazeneca, et. al. are contributors to the campaigns of the introducers of this bill. I'm trying to figure out how best to use that information.

Meantime, here's another one that needs testimony that CASAA caught:

Measure Status

SB 651 SD1

Report Title: Public Housing; Smoking Prohibited
Description: Prohibits smoking in and around public housing projects under the jurisdiction of the Hawaii public housing authority.

This would ban smoking in all public housing areas, including individual residences. SD1 rather odiously adds vaping to that ban.
 

Hulamoon

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How about something along the lines of Lives of smokers, Hawaii jobs and current tax revenues are worth a lot more than the paltry sums Pfizer gives https://data.hawaii.gov/Community/Pfizer/2xxy-fibd

Pfizer and other pharma has already lobbied FDA for these same bills and was told to sod off. Why do they think they can get away with it here? They think State legislators are too dumb to know that?


Chantix has killed people. E-cig deaths: None.

Nicotrol/gums/lozenges et al = 90% failure rate

gums and lozenges at al are not only flavored but recommended for children over 12

Nicotine inhalers have more chemicals in them than e-cigarettes do.

Nicotine is used for a variety of pharmaceutical products, so why is nicotine made the mortal enemy and the big bad wolf here?

I'll shut up as I could go on and on and …..zzzzzzz :)
 

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dr g

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Sorry folks, that's one small thing and even that could come back to bite us. Banning menthol is bad news, it means that this issue actually trumps race concerns, which is truly scary (menthol and flavored tobacco are disproportionately preferred by minorities). Though I suppose no one has really brought that case to the front. Still it plays into the BS argument that flavors target kids.

We have lost the first round on just about everything else, though there is at least some lip service being paid to case for ecigs. We will need to stay on this as the bills move on, and regroup, because we are not in good shape right now. At least the way I look at it. The only democratic ally I see is Chun-Oakland. That's generally not good news.

EDIT: As far as I know ecigs are not banned to minors by state law.
 

Hulamoon

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Here's a cross quote from what Joe reported

"The room was filled with Hawaii residents and officials who wanted to testify in regards to the flavor ban of eliquid. After a long debate between senators and compelling testimony, the verbiage of the bill was altered to remove the term "electronic smoking device" which in effect removes the proposed ban on flavored eliquid, a sure win for Hawaii electronic cigarette users. The bill was passed shortly after modifying the verbage."

The other bills were all scheduled and expected to be slam dunked to be moved to the House, so yes, we've got a ways to go. Stay strong!
 

dr g

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No, it did not pass last year, it was deferred until this session. So they clearly feel they should do something, the huge problem is they are shooting past 18 and going to 21.

Pfizer, Astrazeneca, et. al. are contributors to the campaigns of the introducers of this bill. I'm trying to figure out how best to use that information.

Meantime, here's another one that needs testimony that CASAA caught:

Measure Status

SB 651 SD1

Report Title: Public Housing; Smoking Prohibited
Description: Prohibits smoking in and around public housing projects under the jurisdiction of the Hawaii public housing authority.

This would ban smoking in all public housing areas, including individual residences. SD1 rather odiously adds vaping to that ban.

On review, it appears that there actually was a real victory on this one, SB651 as heard by Human Services, which is chaired by the aforementioned Sen. Chun Oakland. HMS amended the bill to remove the reference to vaping and actually added a potential carve-out for designated smoking areas in public housing, rather than mandating full bans.

Here's a cross quote from what Joe reported

"The room was filled with Hawaii residents and officials who wanted to testify in regards to the flavor ban of eliquid. After a long debate between senators and compelling testimony, the verbiage of the bill was altered to remove the term "electronic smoking device" which in effect removes the proposed ban on flavored eliquid, a sure win for Hawaii electronic cigarette users. The bill was passed shortly after modifying the verbage."

The other bills were all scheduled and expected to be slam dunked to be moved to the House, so yes, we've got a ways to go. Stay strong!

It was removed but Sen Hee mentioned something about regulating e-cigarettes separately. The remaining regulations are terrible, and failing on the flavor issue might have made the pro senators motivated to try to get the most damage out of the other bills. http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/24698753/e-cigarettes-exempt-from-bill-ban I swear there was a kind of bomb-throwing comment from Pfizer's Sen. Baker, something along the lines of, ecigarette people shouldn't think they won because we're still going to regulate. But I can't find it anymore.

Edit: Here it is (premium) http://www.staradvertiser.com/newspremium/20140212__Measure_sparks_e-cigarette_debate.html

"I don't want the e-cigarette folks to think that this is necessarily a win for you," Baker told the crowd. "I just think that in terms of how this measure is constructed that this may not be the best vehicle to get at some of the concerns that people have."

She's horrible.
 
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dr g

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HB 2321
Measure Status

Passed out of health committee, no opposition. Health committee amended by increasing enaction date to 2050, which is how they move bills along that could be controversial and need further discussion. see the committee report, in fact be sure to review the committee reports of all of these. Going to consumer protection committee. Hearing not scheduled yet.

HB2133
Measure Status

Passed out of health committee, no significant opposition. Committee amended enaction date to 2050 and made some technical changes to the definition of electronic smoking device. going to consumer protection/judiciary. Hearing on 2/19.

HB 2077
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=2077&year=2014

Passed out of higher education committee. No opposition. Committee report not posted yet. This one goes to the full house for vote.

SB 2029
Measure Status

Passed out of health and consumer protection committees. Possibly significant opposition by Sen. Chun-Oakland who appears to be an ally. Amendments were not substantial. Going to judiciary comm. No hearing scheduled yet.

SB 2495
Measure Status

Passed out of health and consumer protection comms. Only significant opposition Sen. Chun-Oakland. Significant amendments to the bill to include vaping under tobacco products, increase in tobacco wholesaling and retailing fees, adding an excise tax (replacing excise tax bill, see below), changes to the effective dates to make them effective immedately and fees kick in in 2015. Going to ways and means, no hearing scheduled yet.

This one generated probably the most public attention, got lots of testimony and in person attendance to the hearing, got news coverage.
Lawmakers consider new restrictions on e-cigarettes | KHON2
Comparison to tobacco not valid, e-cigarette proponents say Hawaii News, Honolulu, Honolulu News, Sports, Editorial, Features, Travel and Business - Honolulu Star-Advertiser - Hawaii Newspaper
E-Cigarette Legislation Moves Forward | Big Island Now
plus others

SB 2222
Measure Status

Passed out of consumer protection and judicial committees. No significant opposition. Committees amended the bill to remove electronic smoking devices, a technical win. Moves to ways and means, scheduled for 2/19.

This one generated significant testimony and media interest as well. Measure sparks e-cigarette debate Hawaii News, Honolulu, Honolulu News, Sports, Editorial, Features, Travel and Business - Honolulu Star-Advertiser - Hawaii Newspaper
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/#!/newsDetail/24698753

People found the diabetes anecdote compelling

SB2572
Measure Status

Died in committee. Rolled into SB2495

SB651
Measure Status

This one flew under the radar because mention of ecigs did not appear until SD1. Passed out of human services committee, no opposition. committee amended bill to remove ecig reference and add possibility of smoking areas. Seems like a clear win. Sen chun-oakland is chair of human services committee. Moves to judiciary committee, scheduled hearing 2/20. May want to keep an eye to make sure ecig provision doesn't get added back.

---

I think that's it. it should be noted that big pharma contributes to many if not most of the chairpeople of these committees and the primaries on these bills, especially the outspoken ones like baker.

List of bills containing "electronic smoking" terminology:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/advre...&title=Search+Results+for:+Electronic+Smoking

I saw a really good comment on one of the articles that pointed out that the language in the law directs licensing fees to "tobacco cessation programs" .... which purchase big pharma products. It's really right under our noses.
 
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dr g

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hb 2133, raising age to 21, was recommended to be deferred by the latest committees. from what i can tell that is a big win, if it does indeed get deferred. it would be dead, and there does not appear to be any movement on the senate bill on the same topic

the main vehicle, sb2495, was supposed to get voted on by the ways and means committee yesterday but it has been deferred until 2/25. I hope that indicates that there is too much controversy to make easy votes on it and they will opt not to regulate.
 

Placebo Effect

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Unfortunately, while HB 2133 appears to be dead, I suspect SB 2495 will be passed along.

The delay may be to allow for the drafting of amendments recommended by Hawaii Department of Taxation that would make explicitly clear that SB 2495 intends to tax all components of an electronic cigarette, regardless of nicotine content or whether it is a commonly available battery. http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Session2014/Testimony/SB2495_SD1_TESTIMONY_WAM_02-20-14.PDF
 
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