Headaches, dual carto nic levels? PG?

[Matt-Tucson]

Hey everyone, need some help here:

I have been vaping pretty heavy for about a month I am guessing, and have been noticing that I have been getting alot of headaches. At first it wasn't a big deal, but for whatever reason I seem to be getting them more frequently (or at least it seems that way.) I'm tempted to take excederin daily, which does help for a bit. I'll just give you the info I am concerned about and if you have anything helpful I appreciate your help.

I'm currently vaping between 12-18 mg nic with a Smoktech Dual Cartomizer at 5v 80 PG / 20 VG with DIY FlavourArt flavors. Anything over 20 is too much nic for me, I think that dual carto's definately increase the delivered nicotine (PLEASE SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCE HERE) I do not think it is double since I drag less and 36 mg with an atty made me sick before I switched to dual cartos.

I am somewhat skeptical about it being the nicotine content because I do not feel any definate nicotine buzz and I don't feel the heart\sick symptoms or anything else besides a headache.

Perhaps it is PG? I have read conflicting info on whether or not it does. But people on other threads seem to think it does. I'm currently using a 80/20 ratio, before I was using 50/50 but I can't remember when the headaches started. (PLEASE SHARE IF YOU KNOW WHAT AMOUNT OF PG BECOMES A PROBLEM WITH HEADACHES) The thing that sucks with this is I have my 100mg/ml nic juice in PG and have about 75 ml of 60/40 base already mixed that I've been using and alot of juices at 80/20 or 60/40.

I'm not sure if I was getting the headaches or not when I was vaping 50/50 juices, about the time I switched to dual cartos I changed to 80/20 at 12-18 mg instead of the previous 24 mg w/ attys. (the change to dc's with a different nic level and the increase in PG was about the same time)

Any ideas here? The obvious things to try are lower nic and more VG, but like I said, I don't really have the other symptoms of nic overdose and I LIKE NICOTINE. All my nic juices are pg based (let alone all the crap I already have mixed, maybe I'll try to use them infrequently) If I go for making new juices with no water and guessing 7% flavor that means I have a min PG of 23%. I WONDER IF REDUCING PG HELPS TO FEND OFF HEADACHES IN SENSATIVE PEOPLE OR IF ITS AN ALL OR NOTHING DEAL.

I read someone in another thread saying that sucking too hard can stress your pharyngeal constrictor and cause headaches. (don't think that's my issue but will be mindful.) Also, some people report certain flavors give them headaches. I have been using flavourart, seems like more people would have said something if it was a real problem. I can't discern any pattern of headaches from certain flavors in any case. I have been going crazy with trying new recipes so who knows.

I suppose I could be tolerant to the nicotine and not really feel the effects as much and it could be building up in my system over time without the spikes\buzzes you get from analogs. This is complex lol.

Well, thanks for reading this ridiculously long post, I appreciate it!

Oh, and I don't know what your headaches were like, but these are generalized and not too specific location wise.

 

[CES]

Hi Matt,

there can be a number of reasons for headaches. You could have a response to specific flavorings, or to PG, or to not getting enough water. I get headaches with changes in barometric pressure, or if i'm sitting at the computer too long and not paying attention to my posture. It's really hard to tell, and everyone is different.

I use 90-100% PG, with DC cartos, and LR cartos. LRs and DCCs can increase the amount of juice that you go through, but I'm not sure that they actually increase the amount of nicotine delivered- except perhaps by vaporizing more juice.

Are you using the same amount or more of the 12-18 mg nic? When i first drop a level in nicotine i use more juice at first and end up with the same amount of nic through the day, but without the spikes that make me feel a little queasy. I don't get a nicotine "buzz" at any level that i can tolerate- so can't respond about whether it's a good indicator of nicotine levels.

you've changed a number of things with your vaping habit at once. The best way to test is to vary one thing at a time. The easiest are to drink more water and make sure you're not doing other things differently too. have you decreased the amount of caffeine you drink? Check the amount of juice you go through, and whether the headaches correlate with one flavor more than others.

If you want to vary PG, nic and VG levels, just get unflavored PG and/or VG and you can begin to work your way through the list and see what affects you. unflavored PG, unflavored VG. Use the unflavored to dilute the nic etc.

everyone is different, but if the headaches keep increasing think about checking with a doc to make sure it's not something else.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Matt-Tucson]

CES,

Thanks for your thoughts. I am not sure about how much nic I'm consuming now that I dropped nic levels with the switch to DC's except to say that I know I go through alot more juice with them. It's also hard to say because I have friends/roommates that I share with (I don't mind with DIY prices,) we pass it around like a e-hookah . I think on my days off it is more of a problem because I definately vape more then. Caffeine levels... well I think it can vary pretty significantly from day to day, ranging from high use to none, so it may be a factor. Most likely a contributing factor at most. I don't really get caffeine withdrawl headaches in general.

What nic are you vaping with on your dual carto's? I have no idea what is typical for them. All I know is when I used my old 24 mg juice in a dc it made me uncomfortable very quickly when I was fine with 24 mg on attys.

I think your methodology for testing things one by one is a good one, time consuming but if I have to do that I will. First, for the next 24 hours I will use some of the 50/50 12 mg I have laying around. I'm going to pay attention to how fast it comes on (right away or later), how much I was vaping, caffeine or lack of etc. If I do ok with the 50/50 12 mg I'll see how I do returning to higher pg or higher nic. If I still get headaches I will probably have to test thing one at a time. (although I have no pure vg with nicotine, I can try vaping pg by itself or vg by itself without nicotine like you said. I'm not thinking that whatever it is, causes it right away, I think it accumulates over the day. Not 100% on that though, I'll have to be a good observer. Unfortunately, having to have it accumulate would mean I can't just vape one then wait 15 min then try another. We'll see though, I haven't paid enough attention yet.

 

[Tersur]

Id Say its Definately your Nic level sir. There were 2 Clues there that match my experiance. First off you have Vaped That Nic Level for a Bit before the headaches started. Here is what happened. When you first Started Vapeing that nic level was fine for 2 reasons. First there was alot of stuff clogging up the cilica in your lungs. Second you were dragging on it more like a Cigarette. As time went on your lungs cleared out and you started absorbing more of the Nic. As well as learning to "vape" instead of "smoke" as you took better hits you started retaining more of the nic from the juice. I vaped 24mg for 3 months before headaches started. When i droped down to 12mg they went away. I went from an Ego battery with Boge 2.0 Cartos To a Provari at High volts and they returned. Droped down to 6mg They went away.

 

[CES]

Matt,

I vape 12 mg currently (I started at 24), but there really is no 'typical'. Some are happy at 0mg. some at 6mg, some at 36 mg. Nicotine only stays in your system for an hour or so (I don't remember the half life offhand) so it building up in your system for longer than that isn't really going to be an issue. but if you can compare the amount of x mg juice you used in a given time period with the amount of y mg juice in a comparable time period (with the same type of carto) you can get a sense of the total amount of nicotine (likely it'll be pretty close).

One other possibility, as you're paying attention to how hard you draw (though it may be lighter on the DCC), notice whether you clench your jaw- that can cause headaches too.

Good luck with the testing. Hopefully it'll be something that you can figure out easily. Also , check here Health, Safety and E-Smoking for possibilities.

I'm off to work now, but will check back in and see how it goes.

(ETA: most of the nicotine from vaping is absorbed in the mouth and mucosa rather than deep in the lungs- but the need to decrease nic over time is, i think, fairly common)

 

[Matt-Tucson]

Tersur,

I think that makes sense, especially that part about learning to vape more effectively. The cilia thing sounds very possible, I have no way of knowing how significant it would be but it sounds reasonable.

CES,

It will be hard to say exactly about how much I use in comparison because like I said I have been sharing and will continue to, but I will do my best to get an idea. I kind of chuckled about the jaw clenching because in the past I had a habit of that and noticed it right after I read it (not bad but enough to laugh.) I don't think I'm doing it bad but I'll be mindful of it and while watching how hard I draw. (so automatic, I will pay attention to what I do naturally first and then try and reduce if it looks like an issue.)


I think it will take awhile to figure this out, easy solution or not. Perhaps I will notice something right away by staying at 12 mg juice for the day.

 

[Running Wolf]

Knowing what type of headache they are would also help... I have been getting headaches and migraines for at least the past years.

Also knowing if the headaches come with any other symptoms. I was in my 30's before I started getting allergies (hay fever). Not sure about NM but seasonal pollen, mold, or dust might have started the headaches as well.

Nicotine, Caffeine, & aspirin all change the blood flow.

Aside from allergy symptoms if you have dizzy spells, blurred vision, feeling "out of body" symptoms go see a neurologist. Might be good to see one any way just for the headaches. Headaches can be a symptom of a more serious problem.

Stress is another contributing factor to headaches, if the headaches tend to start at the back of the head. You get into tension headaches and a cluster headaches.

Figuring out what type of headaches you get help narrow down some of the triggers that may cause them.

 

[Matt-Tucson]

Running Wolf,

Well, I think it's kind of a generalized headache usually. Just all around really. Been hours now, been vaping very lightly since it got significant. I'm gonna take a break for awhile (hours not days!) hopefully it will be gone and I can see how it goes from there at 12 mg 50/50.

I can say this is definately not a migraine, and it doesn't have any other symptoms like you mentioned. I am nearly certain it is just from some aspect of my vaping (how much, pg/vg. nic etc) and not anything serious. I wouldn't really know what a blood flow issue feels like but my intuition about it is that yes, it feels like that may be it.

 

[Matt-Tucson]

Had a slight headache all day, vaped alot less and used the lower nic. Going to be early and we'll see how it goes.

 

[mynameisrob]

The way your describing it, it really just sounds like your dehydrated. Vaping definetely dehydrates you and you need to make sure you keep drinking water all day. I know some days if im busy with work or something and am vaping but havent drank a lot of water Ill get a slight headache all day just like you described. I wont necessarily feel dehydrated, but I know now that I def am. Its not a migrane, but it doesnt really go away either. At that point you need to drink a LOT and catch back up. If your at that point and only drink some water and continue to vape, youll normally still be dehydrated slightly and the headache will linger. Try drinking a lot of water, take a few tylenol/advil and continue to drink. The headache will normally subside then. If you get to that point where you have a lingering headache, try not vaping for alittle and drink water continuously for at least an hour. That should help

 

[Running Wolf]

Keep drinking a lot of water. Thankfully not a migraine, I've gotten dental work that hurt less than a migraine.

Hopefully find the source of it. PG & VG mixes, a flavor, nic level. Amount of coffee or caffeine you drink.

Hate to sound all hippy on you. Might try some taking some gingko bilovia for a few days. Once the headache hits you might try some chamomile tea (the tea bags are OK but seeping the dry herb is better).

 

[CES]

My vote is for drinking lots of water too.

 

[jagstang]

Dehydration

 

[Vapeterry]

Good luck with your vaping & mindfulness in finding the clues to your headaches, i too have had problems with trying to get my vaping experince better.

 

[Matt-Tucson]

Thanks everyone. The headaches were better today but I don't want to say non existant, I was careful not to chain vape and drank enough water w/ a reasonable amount of caffeine. I think it will take time to figure out what it is. Maybe it is unrelated to vaping or maybe I just need to slow down a bit. The fact that I had it today with very mild vaping with the lower nic content at 50/50, makes me think it's not nicotine. I don't know right now but after a week or so I should have an idea. I have a bunch of diy mixes at 15 mg and switched to that a few hours ago and increased my vaping to see if I got a headache and I don't have one yet, just the same feeling like one might be coming on that I had on and off throughout the day. I'm wondering if I was just drinking too many caffeine products and thereby losing water since it's a diuretic. Who knows, I think it will take a bit to figure out, or maybe it will just go away with watching my water, caffeine, and all that.

EDIT: Now I actually am having a headache after the increased vaping. I think it may be a matter of not overdoing it. I may try making a pure pg mix to vape for a day to see how that goes.

 

[CES]

it probably doesn't help much that you can get headaches form both too much AND not not enough nic but it doesn't sound like the nicotine. You're going about it the right way, staying hydrated and varying things one by one (or as close to it as you can get)

 

[Matt-Tucson]

Hey all,

Just thought I'd let you know the headaches are not totally gone but they are better just by not chain vaping. I just have to be sure to vape about as often as I had a cigarette. I try and have 45 min to an hour breaks, that doesn't always happen but I keep it in mind at least. I wish I had more insight into the issue but that's all I've got. I have made sure to drink adequate water and watch my caffiene intake. Also I think getting enough sleep has been important.

 

[CES]

It sounds like you're on the right track then Matt. I'm glad the headaches are better. Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[dave_101]

Hey Matt,

Just a thought for you mate. I have had the same thing since moving to the Dual Coil carto's a month ago, was using iAtty and CE2's before without any problems. Have not changed anything except moving to the Dual Coils. Maybe try something that does not have that polly filler in it and see how you go.

That filler in cartos does burn from photos I have seen of them taken apart, there maybe something in the filler burning off that does not agree with you.

At least another thing for you to try anyway.