Hello from India - noob vaper needing help :)

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HazyShades

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I believe the tesla invader is a vv protected and not regulated. Read the description carefully. I would again encourage you to watch some videos before ordering any device.
Tesla Invader III 240W Box mod Features:

  • Dual 18650 High Drain batteries - Not Included
  • Maximum Wattage Output: 240W
  • Maximum Output Current: 45A
  • Output Voltage Range: 3.7~6.6V
  • Minimum Atomizer Resistance: 0.1ohm
  • High-Quality Zinc Alloy Construction
  • Stainless - Advanced Drawbench & UV Process
  • Black and Blue - Premium Baked Exterior
  • High-Tech Composite Finish
  • Potentiometer Voltage Adjustment Knob
  • LED Blue Light Warning System
  • Oversized One-Button Operation
  • Low Voltage Warning
  • Over Current Protection
  • Short-Circuit Protection
  • Silver-Plated Brass 510 Connection
 

HazyShades

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Potentiometer Voltage Adjustment Knob
That potentiometer voltage adjustment is so old school it reminds me of that old B&W 19" Zenith TV
upload_2018-8-25_11-35-49.jpeg
 
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K Ananthakrishnan

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@stols001
:D Totally understand. If I were to research and refine further, I'd much rather give up. So yes, I will decide on a 2-3 items, see YT videos on them and make a decision. I also run the risk of exhausting the patience of the helpful people out here. So I will keep that in mind :)

@HazyShades
Yup, I see the lure of making your own coils, at least that way I dont have to debate so much on getting the Uwell ignoring the stocking of coils. Next agenda item I suppose

@Letitia
Thanks for the heads up, will definitely watch some YT stuff to make sure I understand the device before I make a decision. Appreciate all your inputs :)

@tailland
More choice, yippee !!
Will definitely keep the DIY coils as my next step. I guess it makes a lot of sense. If I have all the other hardware for vaping other than coils, then I guess I can be more independent of the vendor stocks. Will look up resources on that.
 

Letitia

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Baditude

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HazyShades

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I like them for simplicity but would not recommend to a new vaper that is already overwhelmed with info.
Agreed...But it's so much fun to dish out homework...
Very clunky but cute..I like it in blue
tesla_invader_iii_240w_box_mod_blue_2.jpg

Here's a question..How do you know what wattage you're using? (Surely you know I'm being facetious..)
 
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untar

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You don't choose your "batteries according to the power level you use", you choose the power you use according to the resistance of the coil you use.
I completely and utterly disagree. We even have a formula to choose the right batteries according to your preferred power levels and it's mainly based on the number of batteries and the low voltage cutoff of the mod. I wouldn't suggest anyone stray too far from that, especially not new vapers, no need to confuse them.
Remember this thread's title has "noob vaper needing help" in it and this is the "New Vapers Forum"...

What matters in a regulated device is that the power that goes to the coil(s) can be provided by the batteries (plus losses in the electronics) and the resistance simply isn't in that equation at all. When you include different materials it becomes very obvious that resistance is utterly meaningless, the mass of the coil has a much stronger relationship with the rough ballpark power you select than the resistance value.

Yes, devices fail. How does the resistance come into that? Exactly what resistance range should be used to stay safe in case of an unspecified failure mode?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, you'd need to explain how you use Ohm's law to calculate the recommended power for a coil with e.g. 0.5Ω, at the moment I don't see how that would help a newbie set up their device and vape away.
The people I've converted didn't seem to have the slightest problem in starting with the lowest power written on their coil head, adjusting from there and somehow none of them has ended up in a smoky crater yet.
why batteries vent when a coil
has too much resistance for the power used
What are you even talking about? Batteries vent when the coil has "too much" resistance for the power used? :confused:
Since you're an engineer and like to smugly dish out homework, here's some homework for you:
1)how does a 2 battery mod with a maximum voltage output of 8.2V and a maximum power of 200W behave when you have a 2.0Ω coil in your atty and select 200W?
A tip: the answer isn't "the batteries vent" :lol:
And since you love Ohm's law:
2)what is the maximum power said mod will fire the 2.0Ω resistance? How much current will be drawn from the batteries? Why won't the batteries vent?
3)what is the maximum resistance said mod could theoretically fire at 200W?
4)summarize in one sentence why your above claim is comically wrong and why a chip failure still won't make the batteries vent based solely on the 2.0Ω resistance.

Yes, VV devices exist. They're a very small minority and generally not recommended for newbies. If you choose that as an example of why newbies should know Ohm's law to use a regulated device then I have a hard time taking you seriously...
 

Baditude

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You don't choose your "batteries according to the power level you use", you choose the power you use according to the resistance of the coil you use.
If you're not familiar with ohm's law you might use too much power for your coil
and blow your face off in the event a chip fails( and I have had chips fail).
Just stop. Coil resistance is important only for mechanical mods. Ohm's law applies.

With regulated mods, coil resistance is irrelevant. The power to the coil is coming from the regulator chip, not the battery. Watt's Law applies here. I suggest that you watch Mooch's video below.

When choosing a battery for a regulated or variable wattage mod, you consider the amp rating of the battery and the power (wattage) setting you use. Coil resistance doesn't even factor in.

Mooch had a cheat sheet for choosing batteries based on their amp rating and the wattage setting used in the regulated mod. (See video below.) I've expanded that cheat sheet to include additional batteries, below:

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
(Wattage doubles using 2 batteries; triples using 3 batteries)

Up to 45W:
Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR
363984-e565e32efab1e4227719866a9a8b957c.jpg

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR
413691-6d99870bef0f9d8bd4cfb656baac2f7b.jpg

Up to 60W:
LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR
346357-b4b716723a22088fab0a5bf10f1b49ad.jpg

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR
373819-b889be4c74fcdafa3f81b77387c1039f.jpg

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR
480893-f9aa259b6278bd14930b251db599258b.jpg

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR
378261-aaf8c523bf96f24707f538807755e5d3.jpg

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR
376248-b8539a19e3674529dd18c0d4a7b45fbd.jpg

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR
375725-e80826e842f37ec825e3c9d326022214.jpg

AW 18650 3000 mah 20 amp CDR
325518-b1cded3a91492daa95e632f2c614f271.jpg

Up to 75W:
LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR
385835-3a8df09a46862337422b3b76a151fcf0.jpg

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR
376922-73545b66ab0955890ea3cc74c9adb39f.jpg

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR
567779-1876260dcd39b9dcc8127176faccf541.jpg

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR
397493-cc91892a31586c163dc419ce4bd3e8dd.jpg

Up to 90W:
LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR
380919-214d0ffa29b60f062ba7640627ad5605.jpg

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR
377182-6c570506e6ae8e85f30ce64b386a8f13.jpg

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR
380403-c8fa9e7b310e40c393b6edff15726a5f.jpg

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR
567575-254dcc9f3000323cb489ab10e8b02d13.jpg

 
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Baditude

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"resistance doesn't factor in" that's what I thought when I thought I knew Jack, then I became an engineer.

Resistance is the how and why coils get hot and the why batteries vent when a coil
has too much resistance for the power used
.
For an engineer, you seem to be getting things backward. Low resistance coils draw more power than do high resistance coils.

The more resistance you have with the coil, the higher the ohms will be and the less amps from the battery are needed. The lower the resistance of the coil, the lower the ohm will be and higher amps will be required to fire the coil. Note below, the lower the ohm, the higher the amp draw.

1.0 ohm = 4.2 amp draw
0.9 ohm = 4.6 amp draw
0.8 ohm = 5.2 amp draw
0.7 ohms = 6 amp draw
0.6 ohms = 7 amp draw
0.5 ohms = 8.4 amp draw
0.4 ohms = 10.5 amp draw
0.3 ohms = 14.0 amp draw
0.2 ohms = 21.0 amp draw
0.15 ohms = 28 amp draw
0.1 ohms = 42.0 amp draw
0.0 ohms = dead short = battery goes into thermal runaway
 
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HazyShades

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I completely and utterly disagree. We even have a formula to choose the right batteries according to your preferred power levels and it's mainly based on the number of batteries and the low voltage cutoff of the mod. I wouldn't suggest anyone stray too far from that, especially not new vapers, no need to confuse them.
Remember this thread's title has "noob vaper needing help" in it and this is the "New Vapers Forum"...

What matters in a regulated device is that the power that goes to the coil(s) can be provided by the batteries (plus losses in the electronics) and the resistance simply isn't in that equation at all. When you include different materials it becomes very obvious that resistance is utterly meaningless, the mass of the coil has a much stronger relationship with the rough ballpark power you select than the resistance value.

Yes, devices fail. How does the resistance come into that? Exactly what resistance range should be used to stay safe in case of an unspecified failure mode?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, you'd need to explain how you use Ohm's law to calculate the recommended power for a coil with e.g. 0.5Ω, at the moment I don't see how that would help a newbie set up their device and vape away.
The people I've converted didn't seem to have the slightest problem in starting with the lowest power written on their coil head, adjusting from there and somehow none of them has ended up in a smoky crater yet.

What are you even talking about? Batteries vent when the coil has "too much" resistance for the power used? :confused:
Since you're an engineer and like to smugly dish out homework, here's some homework for you:
1)how does a 2 battery mod with a maximum voltage output of 8.2V and a maximum power of 200W behave when you have a 2.0Ω coil in your atty and select 200W?
A tip: the answer isn't "the batteries vent" :lol:
And since you love Ohm's law:
2)what is the maximum power said mod will fire the 2.0Ω resistance? How much current will be drawn from the batteries? Why won't the batteries vent?
3)what is the maximum resistance said mod could theoretically fire at 200W?
4)summarize in one sentence why your above claim is comically wrong and why a chip failure still won't make the batteries vent based solely on the 2.0Ω resistance.

Yes, VV devices exist. They're a very small minority and generally not recommended for newbies. If you choose that as an example of why newbies should know Ohm's law to use a regulated device then I have a hard time taking you seriously...

Smugly?
Hard time taking me seriously? Comical?
Otay. You win...but read my lips
Some people have a NEED to be right...I have no such needs, nor do I need to do homework I did too many years ago.
I don't argue with people who think they know Jack.
Suffice it to say it seems that some folks have no clue how to work the formula
upload_2018-8-25_13-42-2.jpeg

or how the formula works.

Perhaps if you go back to the beginning of this forum and read up
you'll understand just why being familiar with ohm's law is important, even in this age of regulated mods;
and that rather than being a point of confusion for a newb it is a recommended learning experience.

Rather than continue in the helpful spirit of this thread you wanna argue?
LOL...
 

HazyShades

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For an engineer, you seem to be getting things backward. Low resistance coils draw more power than do high resistance coils.

The more resistance you have with the coil, the higher the ohms will be and the less amps from the battery are needed. The lower the resistance of the coil, the lower the ohm will be and higher amps will be required to fire the coil. Note below, the lower the ohm, the higher the amp draw.

1.0 ohm = 4.2 amp draw
0.9 ohm = 4.6 amp draw
0.8 ohm = 5.2 amp draw
0.7 ohms = 6 amp draw
0.6 ohms = 7 amp draw
0.5 ohms = 8.4 amp draw
0.4 ohms = 10.5 amp draw
0.3 ohms = 14.0 amp draw
0.2 ohms = 21.0 amp draw
0.15 ohms = 28 amp draw
0.1 ohms = 42.0 amp draw
0.0 ohms = dead short = battery goes into thermal runaway

No, I don't have anything backwards. While a low resistance will draw more amperage, pushing more wattage at a higher resistance (the key word being RESISTANCE) will overheat a battery
which will vent your battery.
Do not confuse apples with oranges.
----------------------
Otay, this a note to you boyz who seem to have your undies in a wad due to my stating "then I became an engineer"..While perhaps the seriously insecure might attribute my statement as a claim of authority it is actually the opposite.
I'll complete the thought for your edification:
I used to think I knew Jack..that is I thought resistance would not matter in a regulated device
until I studied and learned I do not know Jack at all. An engineer would understand what I mean..

Since I seem to be conversing with brilliant savants... I'll translate that.
I diplomatically implied that the suggestion that resistance does not matter in a device is sophomoric and
a dangerous thing to tell a newb.

With that I bid you all Adieu and get heck out of here with my tail between my legs.
I was here to help Ananth... NOT to argue with you.
Go experiment. Experience is the best teacher
 
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HazyShades

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Again, not gonna argue. Go try it.
Roll a 2.4 ohm coil and push 100 watts into it using a regulated mod.
Hopefully the chip will cut off the current but if it doesn't (and we all know "it" happens)
I have seen chips fail to do some of their assigned jobs while continuing to push a coil.
I prefer to be safe..and to teach a newb to be safe.
 

Baditude

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Roll a 2.4 ohm coil and push 100 watts into it using a regulated mod.
Hopefully the chip will cut off the current but if it doesn't (and we all know "it" happens)
If anything, pushing too much current to a high ohm coil would burn out the coil before the battery would get a chance to get hot and vent.

But again, in a regulated mod the coil draws current from the chip, not the battery. In all likelihood if the coil resistance is too high for the wattage setting the chip would display an error (ohms too high) and refuse to fire. And even if the chip still fired the coil, the coil would still burn out first. The battery is still providing the same wattage that the regulator asks for, so for that reason we choose the right batteries based on the wattage setting and the amp rating of the battery. Coil resistance is irrelevant.

I'll again suggest that you watch Mooch's video. You might just learn something new. ;)
 
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untar

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Feb 7, 2018
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Roll a 2.4 ohm coil and push 100 watts into it
using a regulated mod. Hopefully the chip will cut off the current
That's a whopping 15.5V and 6.45A (both coil side). I don't know of a mod that does 15V (I don't know any common mod from the big names that does) and the 6.45A (coil side) would be laughed at by the batteries. Most likely the mod will stop at 8.4V (coil side) because it simply can't push any more, malfunction or not. It won't suddenly be able to push out more than the hardware (or the direct batteries) is able to do.
That leaves us at a dangerous 3.36A (coil side) and 28.2W... which even an almost empty single 18650 can do
4Head.png

I don't see where an 18650 battery goes up in flames yet, let alone 2.
Suffice it to say it seems that some folks have no clue how to work the formula or how the formula works.
Couldn't have said it any better, kudos.
 

Baditude

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HazyShades said:
Suffice it to say it seems that some folks have no clue how to work the formula or how the formula works.
Couldn't have said it any better, kudos.
HazyShades is still stuck on using Ohm's Law for a regulated device, when he should be using Watts Law. I guess he missed that day in engineering class. :blink:
One must use the right formula to get the right answer.

I tried to get him to watch Mooch's video twice. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it if he don't wanna.

517d02351db81709547eff66c795a74b.jpg
 
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tailland

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It's been a long time since I did these things in school, but I like writing up stuff, so here I go. Correct me wherever you see fit.

OHM`S LAW FOR VAPERS & WHY RESISTANCE MATTERS

Once an electric circuitry is closed, a battery will deliver a certain "amount" (ampere) of electricity with a certain "speed" (voltage). While the battery's output voltage is determined by its internal charging status, it's ampere output is determined by the electric resistance of the closed circuitry (ohm).

This resistance is the ratio of voltage to ampere, R=U/I, meaning the amount of current that can flow with a certain voltage at any given time, and it is determined by the properties the material which electricity travels through. The higher the resistance, the less amperes flow, and the lower the resistance, the more amperes will flow, I=U/R.

If a circuit consists of elements with different resistances, for example wires (which have their own resistance) leading to a consumer element (e.g. a light bulb, which also has its own resistance), the element with the highest resistance acts as a bottleneck and determines the resistance of the entire chain.

The lower the resistance of the circuitry gets, the closer it gets to becoming a "short circuit", which is simply an expression for a circuitry with (virtually) no resistance. When that zero ohm circuitry is closed, amperes flow with no (only the battery's internal) restrictions. If this flow exceeds what the battery can deliver (meaning that it can take the heat the voltage × ampere output produces), it will least vent, quickly and heftily, or simply explode. Discharge accomplished.

When a regulated mod works correcty, it does the following:
It sees your desired watt output, meaning [voltage × ampere]. It then looks at the coil's resistance (e.g. 0.5ohms), meaning its given ratio of U/R, and with that, by the rule of three, calculates which voltage would draw what ampere current, in order to produce your desired Watts, W=I×U. It then uses its in-built electronics to convert the battery's given voltage to the voltage it has calculated to be the right one, and therefor draw the right amount of amperage.

What happens with a mechanical mod or a mod whose electronics are broken?
If a coil's resistance isnot/cannot be determined, no calculation takes place to reach a desired Watts number. The battery's voltage is used as it comes, and depending on the defacto-resistance of the coil, a certain amperage will be drawn from the battery.

Example1: Your battery is fully charged to 4.2V, the coil's resistance is 1.0Ω, then the ampere flow will be I=U/R, 4.2V/1.0Ω = 4.2A. The wattage output will then be I×U=4.2V×4.2A=17,64W. Easy sailing.

Example2: Your battery is fully charged to 4.2V, the coil's resistance is 0.25Ω, then the ampere flow will be 4.2V/0.25Ω=16.8A. The wattage output is 4.2V×16.8A=70.56W. That's already something.

Example3: Your battery is fully charged to 4.2V, the coil's resistance is 0.15Ω, then 4.2/0.15Ω=28A. That already exceeds what most vaping batteries can take even for only a short while. Theoretical final power output = 4.2V*28A = 117.6W. Cloud chaser territory.

Example4: Your battery is fully loaded to 4.2V, your DIY coil is shorted, therefor the circuitry has only a resistance of the wire it travels through, respectively the inner resistance of the battery, which is MUCH MUCH lower than what a coil's resistance would be.

A Sony VTC6 for example, has an internal resistance of 20 mΩ, which is 0,02Ω. Now let's calculate I=U/R. 4.2V/0,02Ω = 210AMPS, or in other words: The battery will open its flood gates and try to discharge itself with all the might it can muster. In a fraction of a second, it will get extremely hot, and it will go on to vent heavily, if not outright explode, depending only on the battery's internal protection mechanisms. If you're a vaper, and you use "unprotected" batteries, you don't want to press the fire button on this configuration.

The calculations in the examples are idealised/simplified, leaving other minor factors out of the equation, but basically, that's what happens if you don't pay attention to Ohm's law.

Generally, I trust my mod to work as advertised, and protect me from, for example, a too low resistance/short circuit, but I freely admit that I always look at the resistance reading on the screen after I change coils, just to be on the safe side. DIY/mech mod users should pay even more attention to this than I do. They haven't got any protection mechanisms between them and an accidental over-discharge of their batteries.
 
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HazyShades

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Again, not gonna argue. Go try it.
Roll a 2.4 ohm coil and push 100 watts into it using a regulated mod.
Hopefully the chip will cut off the current but if it doesn't (and we all know "it" happens)
I have seen chips fail to do some of their assigned jobs while continuing to push a coil.
I prefer to be safe..and to teach a newb to be safe.

LOL...I see y'all are still arguing among yourselves..
Opposites matter..Too little resistance and the battery will drain faster, overheat.
Too much resistance the battery will work harder to overcome said resistance, overheat.

Watts are units of power, the rate of transfer of a potential
Amperes are units of current or potential
Volts are units of electromotive force.

The amp rating of a battery is a measure of it's potential to push x watts but has little to do with
the resistance of the circuit it powers other than that less resistance requires more power.
More resistance OTOH requires less power/amperage
but if one raises the power going to the resistance one also raises the voltage= quick drain, overheating.

So...@Baditude is correct about batteries' amperage rating but I am also correct.
The other dude is disrespectful and no longer exists..."Poof".
For a concise primer on why ohm's law is STILL important to vapers
see the above post by @tailland with whom my only disagreement is that unlike him I am not willing to
put my trust in my mod to function as advertised.
Perhaps I am a cynic but I've seen too many products not live up to their advertisement to trust anything.

@K Ananthakrishnan , Break a leg, Bro. I'm sure you'll get the right stuff...and as you've noticed there are many people here who want to help you decide what you want... :D
Namaste,
Hazy
 
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