Help!!! TPA red hots flavor (PG)

[Doug_xx2]

OK that will teach me to make assumptions. I was wrong it was not the nicotine but it was in the nicotine bottle. The results when I tried to repeat the experiment were not the same because I was not careful about keeping everything the same but I did stumble across what happened the first time by accident trying to figure out why it didn't work the second time.

My nicotine comes in 100% PG and because I used less it changed the pg vg ratio and I believe that is what went wrong the second time around. I took the milky white juice and added .4 ml of straight pg to it and it went clear and since I took the pics it has gotten clearer causing it to be just as clear as the first batch. So I believe that the difference in the amount of nic juice I used caused there to be a difference in the vg pg ratio. It must not play well with the VG I am guessing. I will have to try to reproduce the results with just pg and vg now to make sure but I think I am getting closer anyway.

anyone got any ideas?

here are the pics I took right after adding the pg





and here it is now 10 minutes later...

 

[AndriaD]

Ok, I'm not really one of these "DIY"ers; I'm mixing some store-bought flavors because one of them is much too strong, 18mg, and I need to bring it down to somewhere around 6mg-8mg; hence mixing in some plain PG; I also am doing this mixing because right now I don't have a PV with a glass or pyrex tank, so the only good I can get out of the cinnamon redhot is if I mix it with other flavors. As it happens, the one that's too strong is Oak Barrel Cider, distinctly apple-ish, so I thought mixing in cinnamon redhot would make a good flavor. It had seemed to me that if the redhot was mixed in with other e-juices, so that the redhot only comprises about 1/4 of the total volume, that it would not be damaging to plastic, but maybe I'm wrong about that? If the redhot is a sort of "oil" then perhaps no matter the concentration, it would still damage plastic, if present at all? I just don't get how it can be an oil, since the other components are all water-soluble, and it would seem to me that oil would really F'up atomizers and whatnot.

I did see something very similar, that sort of layer of it (the redhot e-juice), floating atop the rest of the liquid, which does suggest some type of oil. I checked it just now, however, and it still appears to be *slightly* cloudy, not as opaque as it was directly after shaking, but not as clear as I'm accustomed to seeing e-juice. Now, although I did pour the whole volume of liquid into a glass bottle before shaking it up, I did *mix* it in a polypropylene graduated cylinder, as it has the measurement markings -- could the cloudiness be from the polypropylene, even though the redhot was only about 1/4 of the volume? If that's the case, then I guess I gotta spend a few more dollars to get a glass cylinder. I do have a glass (pyrex) measuring cup in the kitchen, with mL markings, so I guess I can use that until I get a more specialized cylinder for the e-juice stuff.

Thx!
Andria

 

[Doug_xx2]

well my cylinder and beakers are glass and you can see from the pics what it is doing. and the one in the ldpe bottle is still clear and the one exposed to air right now looks like this



yellow and cloudy

and it ate the heck out of my tank to

now this is it in my freshly rinsed protank 2 after 2 vapes (does heat have something to do with it to maybe?)



This batch has not touched plastic other than my pipettes and syringes for measuring but that was for a few seconds no more. None as long as 30 seconds.

 

[AndriaD]

I had put my mixture into the tank of my eRoll right after mixing; I looked at it earlier, and it doesn't seem to have harmed the tank in any way; it still looks just as it did before I put the mix in it. So I think I'm going to just assume that the cloudiness is a peculiarity of the cinnamon e-juice when you mix it with other e-juices, unless/until someone who knows tells me different.


Andria

 

[DVap]

There's honestly too much going on for me to get my mind around. If you were able to make a definite determination that the cloudiness does not occur in PG but does occur in VG, then that's progress. I suppose the next thing to figure out might be what is the highest percentage of VG versus PG that can be present before cloudiness becomes a problem and then back off the VG maybe 10% from there.

 

[Doug_xx2]

There's honestly too much going on for me to get my mind around. If you were able to make a definite determination that the cloudiness does not occur in PG but does occur in VG, then that's progress. I suppose the next thing to figure out might be what is the highest percentage of VG versus PG that can be present before cloudiness becomes a problem and then back off the VG maybe 10% from there.

Yeah I was thinking something like that. It was weird I was/am tired (2hrs sleep in 2 days then a 140 mile trip to take a friends daughter to chuck e cheese and back for birthday) and I already made 2 30 ml batches in 2 days so I am going to wait till tomorrow maybe to try to figure it out. That is the track I was heading in though.

my mistake introduced too many variables into the equation at once.

new pg and vg source

new flavoring source

new batch of nic from familiar supplier

completely new flavor

brand new glass equipment

should have changed things more gradually but you know not thinking I would have a problem.

Thought I had it figured it out.

 

[AndriaD]

Yeah I was thinking something like that. It was weird I was/am tired (2hrs sleep in 2 days then a 140 mile trip to take a friends daughter to chuck e cheese and back for birthday) and I already made 2 30 ml batches in 2 days so I am going to wait till tomorrow maybe to try to figure it out. That is the track I was heading in though.

my mistake introduced too many variables into the equation at once.

new pg and vg source

new flavoring source

new batch of nic from familiar supplier

completely new flavor

brand new glass equipment

should have changed things more gradually but you know not thinking I would have a problem.

Thought I had it figured it out.

With mine, although *I* added plain PG, and one of the e-juices I added was 100% PG base, I honestly could not tell you about the oak barrel cider or the redhot itself, since they were premade, and gave no info about the proportions.

However I believe I *have* noticed the tiniest bit of damage to the tank I put this in; the tank itself looked fine, but when I looked at the opening which you fill, which fits down on the atomizer, it looked the *slightest* bit larger to me, as if the redhot had had a very slightly caustic effect on it. So I think I'll mostly leave that redhot alone till I get the itaste and the pyrex tank... although I might add *one drop* to this virginia e-juice, which already has just the *slightest* tinge of cinnamon.... one of my needle-top bottles is EXTREMELY fine guage, so dispenses one drop with perfect slowness.

I can sympathize with that adding too many variables at once, purely from a web-geek perspective; when I'm trying to figure out why some script isn't behaving properly, it's absolutely maddening to realize I changed more than one thing, and so have to COMPLETELY backtrack to figure it out...


Andria

 

[Crunktanium]

At 15% (way overkill) you are basically cooking your taste buds and within no time you wont be able to taste anything other then Cinnamon or heavy Menthol. I have used this flavor in both PG and PGA along with the standard Cinnamon and every other TFA Cinnamon. First time mixing with this flavor I nearly melted an iClear30 tank. So my suggestion would be to avoid this flavor or cut it way back and or stick to the non-Red Hot Cinnamon which tastes better anyway imho.

 

[Doug_xx2]

At 15% (way overkill) you are basically cooking your taste buds and within no time you wont be able to taste anything other then Cinnamon or heavy Menthol. I have used this flavor in both PG and PGA along with the standard Cinnamon and every other TFA Cinnamon. First time mixing with this flavor I nearly melted an iClear30 tank. So my suggestion would be to avoid this flavor or cut it way back and or stick to the non-Red Hot Cinnamon which tastes better anyway imho.

I went that high because I love red hots and fireballs and I have had a hard time tasting flavors since the begining....

 

[AndriaD]

heh... everytime I eat redhots, I sit there wondering why they call 'em redhots, I don't really taste anything hot about 'em... just delicious.

Andria

 

[Doug_xx2]

heh... everytime I eat redhots, I sit there wondering why they call 'em redhots, I don't really taste anything hot about 'em... just delicious.

Andria

I also like hot wings hot salsa I buy the mexican hot sauce I like hot peppers and hot sausage etc... but you know maybe that's why I can't taste much anymore when I combine it with 30 years of smoking

 

[AndriaD]

Could be. I'm not that big a fan of "hot" food, though I like some foods hot enough to be "spicy". The only super-hot food I really love is chinese mustard -- which isn't really all that hot IN your mouth, but on the OUTSIDE of your mouth... god it's like you just put acid on your face! And it sure will clear your sinuses!!!

I just never have found cinnamon redhot to be all that hot; it tingles, but so does sodapop... beer... cigarettes...

Andria

 

[Doug_xx2]

Could be. I'm not that big a fan of "hot" food, though I like some foods hot enough to be "spicy". The only super-hot food I really love is chinese mustard -- which isn't really all that hot IN your mouth, but on the OUTSIDE of your mouth... god it's like you just put acid on your face! And it sure will clear your sinuses!!!

I just never have found cinnamon redhot to be all that hot; it tingles, but so does sodapop... beer... cigarettes...

Andria

true. that first chug off an icy cold pepsi you just opened when it is hot as the blazes outside sure does take your breath away. LOL

 

[Doug_xx2]

Well I have repeated the experiment and came up with what I think is a solution to the problem. there are several pics so it will require multiple posts. I hope it helps.

This is my repeat of the process using a more controlled situation and more documentation.

No nicotine

1) This is the pg and the flavoring mixed together after agitation



2) This is immediately after adding vg to the solution



3) This is after agitating it



4) This is after agitating the solution in a hot water bath (around 120 deg.)



5) This is after letting it set for about 15 min.

 

[Doug_xx2]

6) This is after adding 1.5 ml pg, agitating again in the hot water bath and letting set



With nicotine

7) Repeating w/ nicotine (pg and flavor after agitating)



8) Solution w/ vg after agitation in hot bath and adding nic in pg base (nic is sitting on top)



9) After agitation of solution w/ nic. In hot bath



10) Solution after sitting for 15 minutes

 

[Doug_xx2]

11) Solution next to the one I posted pics of two days ago



12) The two together after adding .5 ml pg to the older one



13) Both solutions after 10 minutes in fridge



14) Solutions after agitating fresh solution in hot bath



15) Solutions after agitating older one on table

 

[Doug_xx2]

16) Both solutions after agitating older one in hot bath



17) Solutions after sitting for 15 minutes



18) Both solutions after adding .75ml to older one and agitating in hot bath with syringe of nic solution to show nicotine used was fresh not yellowed before mixing.



19) Both solutions after 1 hour being allowed to come to room temperature without agitation. Spatula and pipette added to help show clarity.



20) Both batches added together and agitated after sitting for one hour.




My conclusion is that the tfa red hots flavoring does not mix well with vg causing the milky color. I am assuming this is because it contains cinnamon oil that is not soluble in water. I find that this problem can be overcome with agitation, heat and an elevation of the pg level. I am curious why the nicotine turns instantly yellow when it comes in contact with the solution containing the flavoring. If you can answer this question I would appreciate it.

Also for informational purposes my nicotine is in a 100% pg base

Thank you all for your time and comments

Vape on

 

[DVap]

I don't have an answer for the color, but it's pretty clear that you've run the cloudiness down to the VG.

 

[AndriaD]

So, maybe that's what is causing the cloudiness in the mixture of e-juices I put together; as i said, maybe half the volume was 100% PG, but 2 of the e-juices, I have no idea what the proportions were of PG/VG, but I'm sure there was SOME VG, because they just don't seem to make them 100% PG unless you ask for it that way.

However, it did cloud up the eRoll's plastic tanks, so I think it's probably best if I just hold off on using the redhot until I get the iTaste and ARO Pyrex. Too bad, because just one drop of the redhot really gave a nice zing to this Virginia e-juice. (one drop mixed in the .4mL of the eRoll's tank is what caused the tank to cloud -- and the Virginia e-juice I have is 100% PG).

*sigh*
Andria

 

[Jimi D.]

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