Help Understanding Temp Control

[Mykracosm]

Doesn't the vape get hot going down to .075 ohms, and doesn't it kill your battery being that low? And I would assume it's not as safe either?

No, temperature control only works because as nickel and titanium get hotter, their resistances increase. So you're technically only firing at a super sub-ohm level for a brief fraction of a second--once your coil hits 400° it'll be more like a .6 ohm or something. I don't really remember exactly, but yeah, it's a lot higher.

I've found my batteries last longer with TC, but I think that's more of the device's limitations than anything. Before I used TC I'd run the thing at like 80 watts on a .15 ohm coil. The Yihi chip in my ipv4 is limited to 50 joules.

I see, it makes more sense now. With price not being an object, what would in your opinion be the best Temp control device I could get? I heard the chips in the snow wolf mods are US made and quite unknown. I want to buy a well built one that will last a long time.

I've heard good things about the Snow Wolf and it looks great, but I'd hold off for now. It's a little too new and problems may crop up in the near future. I'd avoid getting something right after it drops. I love my IPV4. It works great. But if you don't pull out the 9V charging board the thing is pretty much a time bomb.

That being said, Sigeleis are awesome and sturdy as hell. They're dropping a 150W TC mod soon. It should be great. If I didn't have a TC mod, I'd probably get that one or a Snow Wolf (after they've been out for at least a month)

And if Titanium is easier to work with and not as brittle, how come you will go with Ni200 for the temp control?

Titanium is more expensive and not as readily available. It's also rather a rather new thing so most devices don't really support it. You have to drop the temperature limit down a good bit.
I do plan on trying some out, but I still have about 40' of nickel I'd like to burn through first. Hopefully by then there'll be some nicer mods that support titanium.

So you would recommend nickel over Titanium I'm getting? And do you do a dual coil build or single coil? I'm more about vapor production than flavor, so I would assume you get more vapor out of a dual coil build.

Pick whichever you want. Nickel has more variety and you get far more for less. Titanium is better in pretty much all other aspects. Especially with how easy it is to clip off a lead when you screw down your posts using nickel.
Dual coil will absolutely give you better results. Just build two 0.12-0.16 ohm coils and be amazed at how much non-throat-scorching vapor you put out. Even with a single coil and 65% VG liquid I can blow better clouds than I ever did with kanthal. Dual coiling works better, of course, but it's warmer and you'll burn through juice like crazy.

Play around with it and see what you like.

 

[footbag]

Do you vape on a TC device, and if so, may I ask what your build is? And what you would recommend I start out on?

Lots of people are hitting around .12Ohms with 9 wraps of 28G wrapped around at 3mm.

My device , the SX mini, actually suggests going down to .06Ohms. For that, I would need 6 wraps of 26g.

Since you can boost the wattage, spaced coils are preferred to help wick and vaporize juice.

I never would've thought I'd be vaping at 50w, but with TC it's where I'm liking the vape.

 

[VapingBad]

Do you vape on a TC device, and if so, may I ask what your build is? And what you would recommend I start out on?

Yes DNA40s, buit my first in October and been my ADV ever since. I almost exclusively vape on Origin Genesis V2 clones, but have used Kayfun, Orchid & Kraken with temp limiting. Try and avoid atties with through hole connectors as these can cut thin nickel. Spaced coils will be less problematic than touching coils as they can short between loops, but so can kanthal if you clean it before you coil. Dual coils are harder because you need to use thin wire, I use twisted 34 AWG 0.16 mm on the Origenny. Twisted is a little easier to work with that single strand and it is really easy to twist wire, give it a wipe with alcohol first as some can have oil and dirt on. This is my usual build a sleeper coil on 3 mm stainless steal wicks, probably not much use to you.

The SteamEngine coil calc gives you a good starting point particularly for wire gauge.
Set inner diameter, leg length, wire type, single/dual/etc, ohms and watts.
Then look at the coloured icon for heat flux and try to get it green by adjusting the wire diameter and if that doesn't work you may need the change the ohms a bit, err on the cooler side for heat flux IE stay out of the red/orange as it is more likely trip temp limit.

 

[Karvin72]

Warning.... mini-hijack in progress.... if it is an algorithm that controls voltage based upon current resistance to the ni200 to control temperature.... what does watts have to do with it? Initial resistance I understand how that affects it, and I understand the Joules portion of it... but honestly the first time I have heard watts brought into the equation. Oh, and the above pic has my brain spinning thinking about gennystyles now... time to break out my Cobra.

 

[VapingBad]

Warning.... mini-hijack in progress.... if it is an algorithm that controls voltage based upon current resistance to the ni200 to control temperature.... what does watts have to do with it? Initial resistance I understand how that affects it, and I understand the Joules portion of it... but honestly the first time I have heard watts brought into the equation. Oh, and the above pic has my brain spinning thinking about gennystyles now... time to break out my Cobra.

Joule have nothing to do with temp limiting what so ever, they are a measurement suited to telling you how much power you got out of your battery and not how much heating power you are supplying a coil.

Only posted the genny as was asked what I used.

 

[Mykracosm]

Warning.... mini-hijack in progress.... if it is an algorithm that controls voltage based upon current resistance to the ni200 to control temperature.... what does watts have to do with it? Initial resistance I understand how that affects it, and I understand the Joules portion of it... but honestly the first time I have heard watts brought into the equation. Oh, and the above pic has my brain spinning thinking about gennystyles now... time to break out my Cobra.

If memory serves, the wattage you input is a soft limit. I believe the boards allow the power to briefly go above your set number to heat up rapidly, but it'll typically hover a little below it to sustain something near your set temperature.

 

[VapingBad]

If memory serves, the wattage you input is a soft limit. I believe the boards allow the power to briefly go above your set number to heat up rapidly, but it'll typically hover a little below it to sustain something near your set temperature.

The watts just get throttled back enough to hold at the temperature, how much depends on all the variables like airflow, wicking, the temp set and you may not even hit the temp limit. The pre heat boost on DNAs is for upto a second or to 100 F below your temp limit.

 

[footbag]

A higher wattage (or Joules) will allow the coil to heat up quicker. Since the temp control is constantly cutting out the power, having a high wattage is good to quickly hit that coil temp. It should produce a more consistent vape.

With my device, you do feel the temp limiting kick on. It gives a little rattlesnake as it cuts on and off. It's like a PWM, but technically it isn't. It's a temp cutoff.

Wattage is like horsepower, TC is like the speed limit. Just because a speed limit exists, doesn't mean that you wouldn't want to approach it quickly.

 

[Araneae]

Lots of people are hitting around .12Ohms with 9 wraps of 28G wrapped around at 3mm.

My device , the SX mini, actually suggests going down to .06Ohms. For that, I would need 6 wraps of 26g.

Since you can boost the wattage, spaced coils are preferred to help wick and vaporize juice.

I never would've thought I'd be vaping at 50w, but with TC it's where I'm liking the vape.

Is that on nickel or Titanium wire?

 

[footbag]

Is that on nickel or Titanium wire?

My bad. That's Nickel.

 

[Araneae]

My bad. That's Nickel.

Hmm I think I'll hold out on one then until its featured as made with Titanium wire in mind. I know one of the current ones will work, but I'll wait until Ti becomes a bit more popular.

 

[JoeDyer]

I use an SX350 Mini with temp control paired with the Smok Gimlet Ni200
The vape is very nice and plentiful, I can rest assured that I am not vaping over 600 C
Above this there is an increasing risk of molecular breakdown in e-Liqui

 

[mcclintock]

Dual 22 gauge .2 ohm is a lot of wire. Dual 22 gauge .05 ohm would only have 1/4 as much and would tend to be a much cooler vape at its appropriate 1/4 as much power, on a VW mod. Your concern about resistance is based on a simple number, not the whole picture.

TC is about making the build work better all the time. The build still determines the result, or its range.

 

[Completely Average]

I've heard good things about the Snow Wolf and it looks great, but I'd hold off for now. It's a little too new and problems may crop up in the near future. I'd avoid getting something right after it drops. I love my IPV4. It works great. But if you don't pull out the 9V charging board the thing is pretty much a time bomb.

There's a bit of irony in your comments there.

You would avoid getting something right after it drops, but you have an IPV4 which just dropped.
You believe the Snow Wolf is too new and problems may crop up in the future, but the IPV4 thread is packed full of people having problems and complaints with the IPV4 which you have.

There is also a Snow Wolf thread in the Temperature control section, and not one single person who owns one has made a complaint about it. The IPV4 thread though... all kinds of problems. Batteries that don't discharge at the same rate, the mod heating up around the USB port and failing, resistance metering being off, chip failures, and the dreaded overheat/pipebomb problem that several have had.

Seems strange to warn people off the Snow Wolf when there are no reported problems here, while you use that IPV4. If you go to the IPV4 threads you'll see I was following them closely since late March and was very interested in buying one. The operative word there is WAS. I've read about WAY too many problems with the IPV4 to feel comfortable spending my own money on one.

I've been following the Snow Wolf since it released in May. The only problems I've seen reported with it are user error, not waiting for the mod to properly detect the coil and resistance and trying to fire the mod immediately after installing a new coil. It takes around 30-45 seconds for the mod to go through the full process of detection and getting it's internal settings adjusted. (Unlike other TC mods you don't have to wait until everything is at room temperature to detect and lock the settings, the downside of that is it has to take multiple samples over around 20 seconds before it sets up the temperature control properly). I haven't read about a single complete failure on any website and they've been out more than a month now.

I'm not a fan or follower of any manufacturer, I simply want the easiest to use, most accurate, and most reliable mod for my money. Ultimately it's come down to the SX Mini M Class or the Snow Wolf 200W, and the dual battery, FAR easier to use interface, temp control accuracy, and higher wattage in temp control mode has me buying the Snow Wolf.

 

[Completely Average]

I make my juices with only about 10% PG from the flavoring, so I'm not too big on flavor being overpowering. This post you made makes me sad. I was really curious about trying a TC device, but now I'm wondering if I should stay with my resistance build on my VW device for the clouds.

Don't get thrown off by one person's comments. You can cloud chase with temperature control just like you can with any other mod.

It all comes down to the same basic principles. Heat, airflow, surface area of the coil, and wicking. The only thing really different about temperature control is it limits the MAXIMUM temperature the coil hits. But you set what that maximum limit is.

I will say this though. For cloud chasing in temperature control, that Snow Wolf is going to beat pretty much everything else out there. It's capable of delivering up to 70W in temperature control mode and has the highest maximum temperature setting (600F) of any mod out there. Most of the people complaining about the lack of clouds are ones vaping on a temp control device that limits them to 50W or less and are vaping around 400-450F.

 

[EuroBeat]

Hi,

I started out with 30AWG Ni200 with 10 wraps on a 2.5mm rod. And i'm still doing it now i just can't seem to get it right on 28 AWG.

 

[Mykracosm]

There's a bit of irony in your comments there.

You would avoid getting something right after it drops, but you have an IPV4 which just dropped.
You believe the Snow Wolf is too new and problems may crop up in the future, but the IPV4 thread is packed full of people having problems and complaints with the IPV4 which you have.

There is also a Snow Wolf thread in the Temperature control section, and not one single person who owns one has made a complaint about it. The IPV4 thread though... all kinds of problems. Batteries that don't discharge at the same rate, the mod heating up around the USB port and failing, resistance metering being off, chip failures, and the dreaded overheat/pipebomb problem that several have had.

Seems strange to warn people off the Snow Wolf when there are no reported problems here, while you use that IPV4. If you go to the IPV4 threads you'll see I was following them closely since late March and was very interested in buying one. The operative word there is WAS. I've read about WAY too many problems with the IPV4 to feel comfortable spending my own money on one.

I've been following the Snow Wolf since it released in May. The only problems I've seen reported with it are user error, not waiting for the mod to properly detect the coil and resistance and trying to fire the mod immediately after installing a new coil. It takes around 30-45 seconds for the mod to go through the full process of detection and getting it's internal settings adjusted. (Unlike other TC mods you don't have to wait until everything is at room temperature to detect and lock the settings, the downside of that is it has to take multiple samples over around 20 seconds before it sets up the temperature control properly). I haven't read about a single complete failure on any website and they've been out more than a month now.

I'm not a fan or follower of any manufacturer, I simply want the easiest to use, most accurate, and most reliable mod for my money. Ultimately it's come down to the SX Mini M Class or the Snow Wolf 200W, and the dual battery, FAR easier to use interface, temp control accuracy, and higher wattage in temp control mode has me buying the Snow Wolf.

Yeah, that's why I'm saying it would be wise to wait and mentioned the balance board issue. I bought the IPV4 when it dropped and had problems with it before all these venting IPV4 threads started cropping up. Then I bought another one to replace it (I took off the mirror finish so my warranty was voided) and that's when every other IPV4 thread is about the faulty balance board.

This is the only reason I'm telling him it'd be wise to wait. The IPV4s weren't having many issues at first, but over a month later it started happening frequently as the little strips of insulation tape were coming loose in droves. I've experienced what happens when you don't give the devices some time.

I'd never had any trouble with a P4Y device before and I was too trusting. Just want OP to maybe learn from my mistakes.

Probably should have been more clear. It's just a hassle to type on my phone.