Hey, battery wrapping companies...

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DaveP

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:lol:…I know of Ron White but have never seen that. TBH, that was the handle I wanted to use, but being drunk at the time it came out as Punk In Drublic! :D

Ron's one of my favorite comedians. Google Jeff Foxworthy and Ron White and you'll find it all. That particular routine is a side splitter.
 

mimöschen

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I am well aware of that and do my best to be conscience with what I purchase. Buying into child labor is difficult to avoid with todays mass consumption society. But with a little effort we can do our part to reduce the amount of financial support that goes into child labor. Supporting a clone market, be it vape products, handbags or mobile phones is not what I consider as putting forth our best efforts. Not only are we supporting child labor, but we are also destroying the very markets in which we are passionate about. A clone market relies heavily on an authentic market in order to produce clones….it’s the nature of the game. Without supporting that authentic market we will have neither. And if we are willing to spend a little more for something that is authentic, local markets will take notice and start to emerge.

I support Mooch’s word 110% but fear it is falling onto deaf ears. These companies are not going to listen or change their ways if they are still generating a profit. So how do we put a stop to this? We can start by being more conscience about the products we buy.
Why do you think cloners and rewrappers rely more on child labour than manufacturers of authentic (vape)gear?
Btw they all buy their rawmaterials from the same sources. That's where the most atrocities are committed.;)
 

stols001

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Um back to the batteries... The fact that Chinese resellers are getting upset by this testing is a good thing they are feeling exposed, unfortunately taking that out on someone doing testing and giving realistic ratings is extremely counter productive, it's not like Mooch is going to stop and it's not like we are going to stop paying attention to Mooch.

If you can MAKE a battery, you can test a battery. You can also test a battery if you are rewrapping batteries in bulk. You have that capacity, you have the capacity to accurately state ratings, and doing that would be FAR more productive for you than what you are doing now.

Guess, what I'm a fairly low wattage vaper. There are batteries that were tested that I might be interested in BUYING except GUESS WHAT I am NOT going to buy from liars, thieves and people intent on destroying the vaping industry for a quick buck.

How about you stop lying? That is the real issue here. I'm not going to buy from KNOWN LIARS ever, so you should totally come on here. We could have a productive conversation with you about what we need, what we expect and what we MIGHT be able to do if you stop LYING ALL THE TIME oh, and also attacking Mooch, I have NO clue what you think that is going to solve. All it's going to do is make you dislike me MORE, as there is nothing worse than a liar who is caught out, and then retaliates inappropriately and rudely. You could have the BEST (hint you don't, but) the best battery on the market and the lowest price and I wouldn't buy it. I also tell all my friends not to buy from you lot.

You should come on here, I'd love to chat over tea and cookies, while vaping my SAMSUNG, LG, OR SONY battery. That's all I own (hint, I don't want to buy from liars and thugs).

So, welcome to ECF, I'll be waiting.

Anna
 

Punk In Drublic

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Why do you think cloners and rewrappers rely more on child labour than manufacturers of authentic (vape)gear?
Btw they all buy their rawmaterials from the same sources. That's where the most atrocities are committed.;)
I never said re-wrappers rely on child labor – that was brought up and criticized by someone else to which I just questioned. As for cloners, given the nature of their game which is to produce a product as cheap as possible, they will take all measures to cut cost. This includes exploited labor, poor working conditions and inferior materials. This is common knowledge throughout many industries to which the vape industry will not be any different.

It is not uncommon for a legit company to cut cost through the use of questionable manufacturing practices. However, being in the public eye there is a higher risk to which if they were ever exposed, the consequences could be quite vast. There is no name or brand attached to the clone market for they are trying to disguise themselves as something that is legit. With no name or brand we the consumer has no idea if they are ever exposed or not. Nor would we know if they use toxic materials. They don’t care if you get sick from their product – there is 0 repercussions!

Raw materials can come from many different sources and have a vast difference in quality. It is not uncommon to find toxins such as lead in alloys which can dictate its market price given the regulations of many countries. The higher the lead content the cheaper the alloy. How much lead is in that $10 clone RDA? Yes, a legit company could also cut cost and use a highly toxic material but as mentioned above, if they were ever exposed in doing so, we the consumer would know who to point our finger at and will most likely make a choice never to support that company again….assuming they survive.
 

Punk In Drublic

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Clone or OEM? World of difference. A clone purposely tries to take market share from legit companies by copying their products and undercutting the price with cost cutting manufacture practices. It is not uncommon for an OEM, who manufactures for other brands to release a similar product under the OEM name, which could also be at a reduced cost but not always. Foxconn is not an Apple, Dell, HP, Sony or Cisco clone, just to name a few. They are a OEM for these companies that does and will release almost identical products under the Foxconn brand.

None the less, the vape industry is not void of shady manufacture practices.
 

Punk In Drublic

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SXK - Shenzhen Shenxingkang Technology Co., Ltd
Business Type: Manufacture, Trading Company
Annual Revenue: $10 to $50 Million US
Employees: 200


Company Introduction
Shenzhen Shenxingkang Technology Co., Ltd.,which is a high technology grade enterprise, is specialized in R&D, manufacture, marketing and technological services.
The main products are electronic cigarette, e-cig atomizer ,vaporizer,e-sig battery. The products are not only passed the test by Quality Control Center, but also applied CE certificate for European market.
Meanwhile, the factory has gotten the Authentication Certificate of Quality Management System ISO9001:2000.
Since starting, we uphold concept of "To meet the customer's need as the point", to provide the service with OEM and ODM as well as self-develop the product. Through years of unremitting efforts, we have many outstanding technical talents, stable sales channel, and good reputation in the international market.
With the enterprise concept of "honesty, innovation and service", we will dedicate to provide the customers for excellent services with best quality, fashionable design, and competitive prices. Furthermore, relying on the tenet of faithful, professional and zealous service, we will broaden more sales channels, expand market share, and grasp potential business opportunities. We are expecting to co-develop with our customers for mutual prosperous future.




You do not make $50 mil a year by manufacturing clone RDA’s and tube mec mods. This is a OEM company that if I took an educated guess, probably manufactures the majority of vape products out of China.
 

stols001

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IDK I think this is the kind of thing you really can only know with confidence if you go to China. My mother has been to China, but it was to study Chinese Herbology one time, I don't think she was poking around factories and stuff. I think if you do go to China to expose shady business practices you might have a chance of getting locked up.

I have no desire to go and check it out (or time really) or to get locked up in a Chinese prison.

It's either worse than I think or better, probably, but I have no clue. I do see at least some pictures of Chinese children in schools, so there's that. The Chinese Gymnasts at the Olympics look like they've been laboring in coal mines to the point of bandages everywhere but all Olympic gymnasts look like that.

So glad my stay in "gymnastics" was short. Ironically many of the things my gymnastics coach wanted me to do, I can now do thanks to Yoga, but I actually enjoy that. It makes a bit of a difference.

Anna
 
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mimöschen

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SXK - Shenzhen Shenxingkang Technology Co., Ltd
Business Type: Manufacture, Trading Company
Annual Revenue: $10 to $50 Million US
Employees: 200


Company Introduction
Shenzhen Shenxingkang Technology Co., Ltd.,which is a high technology grade enterprise, is specialized in R&D, manufacture, marketing and technological services.
The main products are electronic cigarette, e-cig atomizer ,vaporizer,e-sig battery. The products are not only passed the test by Quality Control Center, but also applied CE certificate for European market.
Meanwhile, the factory has gotten the Authentication Certificate of Quality Management System ISO9001:2000.
Since starting, we uphold concept of "To meet the customer's need as the point", to provide the service with OEM and ODM as well as self-develop the product. Through years of unremitting efforts, we have many outstanding technical talents, stable sales channel, and good reputation in the international market.
With the enterprise concept of "honesty, innovation and service", we will dedicate to provide the customers for excellent services with best quality, fashionable design, and competitive prices. Furthermore, relying on the tenet of faithful, professional and zealous service, we will broaden more sales channels, expand market share, and grasp potential business opportunities. We are expecting to co-develop with our customers for mutual prosperous future.




You do not make $50 mil a year by manufacturing clone RDA’s and tube mec mods. This is a OEM company that if I took an educated guess, probably manufactures the majority of vape products out of China.

Nevertheless, they do sell clones to the endconsumer directly.
And that makes your claim of evil child abuse by clone companies as a whole more than implausible.
I'd rather say that clone companies as a whole, not just SXK, produce 99% of our vapegear anyway, and their "clones" are mere overproduction or grade b wares.
 

Punk In Drublic

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Nevertheless, they do sell clones to the endconsumer directly.
And that makes your claim of evil child abuse by clone companies as a whole more than implausible.
I'd rather say that clone companies as a whole, not just SXK, produce 99% of our vapegear anyway, and their "clones" are mere overproduction or grade b wares.

You’re right. The vape industry is above all others and void of any wrong doings involving poor manufacturing practices (hence the topic of this thread). Clones are nothing more than a over production run off’s or grade b wares. I will keep that in mind next time I’m on Canal St and come across a $50 Rolex. And I never knew clone companies, not OEM’s, manufacture 99% of our vape gear. Who makes the remaining 1%? Just curious. But do have a question: Does that mean a clone company makes Apple products or is it the vape industry, sorry… a vape clone industry created a unique way of manufacturing on a large scale?

Think it’s safe to say this conversation has run its course.
 

mimöschen

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No need to be pi**ed buddy.
Black sheeps are everywhere, but those aren't just the cloners.
Atties have a productionvalue in cents to start with and the overall techlevel isn't up to rocketscience either, so cutting down retailprices is quite easy for cloners.
It starts with not having someone else to do the manufacturing for them and ends with not having the need to flood the net with expensive ads.
Granted, some clones are garbage, but a lot of them belie the fact they're clones, because they are true 1:1 copies that look and perform exactly the same, plus there are some that perform even better than their authentic counterparts due to small upgrades done by the cloners.
An Iphone or Rolex is a much more advanced piece of tech though, so cutting down the retailprice for a qualitatively compareable clone isn't that easy.
 

Punk In Drublic

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No need to be pi**ed buddy.
Black sheeps are everywhere, but those aren't just the cloners.
Atties have a productionvalue in cents to start with and the overall techlevel isn't up to rocketscience either, so cutting down retailprices is quite easy for cloners.
It starts with not having someone else to do the manufacturing for them and ends with not having the need to flood the net with expensive ads.
Granted, some clones are garbage, but a lot of them belie the fact they're clones, because they are true 1:1 copies that look and perform exactly the same, plus there are some that perform even better than their authentic counterparts due to small upgrades done by the cloners.
An Iphone or Rolex is a much more advanced piece of tech though, so cutting down the retailprice for a qualitatively compareable clone isn't that easy.

Do not know what pi**ed means but if you are referring to me being upset, I am not. I did not bring up child labor, someone else did in reference to battery rewrapers. I just commented on it. It seems much of what is being said here is taken out of context. My comments within this thread is not to say the vape industry as a whole, exploits labor or uses inferior materials. It is not to say that every perceived clone that you have come across was manufactured in the same manor. It is common knowledge throughout all industries that cloning for the purpose of conning a consumer into thinking they are purchasing a brand name product at a significantly reduced cost can and will practice some very questionable manufacturing methods. These practices are not exclusive but are very common. That cannot be debated regardless of industry.

The production value and or simplicity of an RDA, or any vape component for that matter has no bearing on whether questionable practices were being used to manufacture them. We have seen similar items in comparison being manufactured with hazardous materials. Clones of toys being made out of lead or lead based paint is a prime example. All industries are not void of this, and the vape industry is no exception. Obviously SXK is not going to risk their reputation and certifications by releasing a product made out of hazardous materials or exploited labor. However, they are not the only factory within Asia with a lathe and access to raw materials.

Given my understanding and exposure to Chinese based OEM’s from within a different industry that I have been involved with, I do not view what SXK produces under their name as a clone. I could go into details on this but with the way this discussion has evolved, I fear I will be wasting my time. In closing I will say that if you are comfortable purchasing a $3 RDA that has no branding but the company it is trying to mimic, than I hope no harm comes to you. Regards.
 

Old Greybeard

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I'd like to quote from the famous economist here, John Kenneth Galbraith once said :

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite"

Politics completely aside, if we were to replace the political systems and consider the two business models in the same way (e.g. Genuine manufacturer V Clone), exactly the same rule of thumb applies. While this is pure generalisation, one will lean towards legal action, brand strength and being part of a cartel or a monopoly (via mergers and acquisitions or other means) to achieve market dominance, the other will undercut quality, ride on the shirt tails of previous R&D innovation and totally disregard any laws to make a profit. The free market is not as free as it appears as there will always be competition.

The key to this, as @stols001 correctly pointed out, is lying, or on a more philosophical basis, business ethics. There will always come a point when a business is under threat from their competitors. How do they respond under these circumstances? I agree that the clone companies etc are the lowest of the low, but they are an easy target in the ethics game. What about the likes of Volkswagen who have been caught out deliberately programming engine management systems to get around emissions standards? Or indeed the likes of Apple who tried to patent round corners in a legal attempt to secure intellectual property rights? Or food manufacturers packaging their products in such a way to mislead the consumer? The corporate buyouts and asset stripping to gain control? The list goes on. Neither side is pure as the driven snow.

What I find fascinating is in the UK major steps are being taken to run the counterfeiters out of town, with police, immigration and revenue raids on shops. They really are throwing the book at these guys, who quite often, are linked to organised crime. Yet the problem will continue, as there is too much demand and money to be made, mainly for faux designer clothes etc. that will hardly kill anyone. It is really interesting to note that we never used to have a big problem with fake cigarettes or alcohol in this country until the government raised the taxes on these products to ridiculous levels. Yet there have now been cases of people going blind, and some of the fake cigarettes have really nasty ingredients in them, but these guys don't get caught very often.

I can see the same problems happening with vaping in general if a harsh stance is taken and prohibition (which has been linked to the growth of the Mafia in the 1920's due to banning alcohol) becomes prevalent. The bad guys will just be driven underground, and the good guys just out of business.

So it is in everyone's interest that the market doesn't attract too much attention, especially considering the symbiotic relationship between the counterfeiters and genuine manufacturers, as the former are quite often responsible for market growth of the latter that wouldn't have occurred so rapidly. The humble PC is an example of this, the consumer market didn't take off until the major manufacturers were forced to compete on price.

Let's hope the market stabilises, the market leaders don't get greedy and strong action is taken against those who endanger others with poor quality product. As consumers, we are in a powerful position, and now more than ever we must heed the old phrase - Caveat Emptor, Buyer beware.
 

MikeyConti

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Make it easy on yourself ... Buy the ones that Mooch approves for the wattage and amperage you need for your vaping style. Get those from a respected battery dealer, not necessarily a vape shop. You'll save money and obtain genuine cells.
Amen.
Once I found ECF many years ago and followed Mooch’s testing I learned A LOT very quick and soon after I never worried about buying the wrong batteries.

I only use Sony, LG, and Samsungs which I buy from Reputable dealers, mainly RTD but Orbtronic, Liion, Illumn and IMRBatteries have gotton my business also.
By doing this I have never had a Counterfeit battery. (If I do, It must have very close specs to the genuine battery lol)

Yes, even those three brands have had Counterfeits slip through, believe this was mainly from Contractors who were hired and received equipment by either Sony, LG, Samsung to do final touches such as Enclosure and Wrapping.

I understand some people with 2x700 mods who had to buy other brands, especially early on. I don’t have the need for a mod that requires more power than what 18650’s can produce.
 

Evesevere

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I myself only use what Mooch suggests and I buy from a pretty reputable store. I know that it can happen to anyone but I have yet to have an issue in my four years of vaping and my 60th battery purchase.
I hope I never do but there are scammers and people who exploit others for profit. I try to be an educated consumer but sh$t can happen. Also, when I say ‘educated consumer’ I mean with everything I purchase. Not to say I am perfect by any means. Far from it. Love the forum and learn something new daily.
Peace
 
There is a guy in the UK making new generation batteries and ultracapacitors who you may be a able to work something out with, he is setting up a pilot plant to make batteries now and these vaping batteries would be a good thing I think. Check him out on YouTube. Google, Robert Murray Smith on YouTube. If you cant find his email address I have it here.
 
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