Hi voltage without (hopefully) the meltdown

[Paradiso]

I'm obsessed with making a higher voltage (5 Volts?) mod. I was all set to make a "MagnumBox" mod until I saw EskimoRoll's nuclear meltdown post.
CR2s are out since there don't seem to be any protected versions but cr123As (16340) do have protected versions (I spend WAY too much time on DE's web site), but, of course, 2 of them freshly charged will be putting out nearly 8.5 volts.
So I'm thinking 2 protected cells with a TI voltage regulator to keep the output at 5 volts.
Any insights, please? Anybody done something similar. Any direct experience with the regulator (exactly which model number is required)?

aTdHvAaNnKcSe (a little geek humor)
John

 

[kinabaloo]

I'm obsessed with making a higher voltage (5 Volts?) mod. I was all set to make a "MagnumBox" mod until I saw EskimoRoll's nuclear meltdown post.
CR2s are out since there don't seem to be any protected versions but cr123As (16340) do have protected versions (I spend WAY too much time on DE's web site), but, of course, 2 of them freshly charged will be putting out nearly 8.5 volts.
So I'm thinking 2 protected cells with a TI voltage regulator to keep the output at 5 volts.
Any insights, please? Anybody done something similar. Any direct experience with the regulator (exactly which model number is required)?

aTdHvAaNnKcSe (a little geek humor)
John

You could consider this one: +5V Fixed-Voltage Regulator 7805 - RadioShack.com
5V Fixed-Voltage Regulator 7805

Says rated up to 1A so might not be quite enough. Should be ok, though you might need to heatsink it. These only cost about $1.50 so worth a try.

You could also consider using one that can provide a voltage range - adjustable with a potentiometer.
Such as: http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html
LM317

 

[caesar]

7805 and LM117-317 will get so hot that they can melt the plastic box you use them in.
Sadly a sink won't help much in such a tiny plastic box.

You must look into PWM controlled MOSFET or step-down converters for this mission.

 

[kinabaloo]

7805 and LM117-317 will get so hot that they can melt the plastic box you use them in.
Sadly a sink won't help much in such a tiny plastic box.

You must look into PWM controlled MOSFET or step-down converters for this mission.

I thought about PWM, but will also get a bit hot (not as much); but most importantly, during the on periods the full 8v+ will be applied across the coil; ok it's fr a brief period, but the coil might still get too hot if the duty cycle is high; so one would need care with the duty cycle range.

I doubt the reg chips would get so hot with only intermittent use, but it's cheap enough to try.

More to the point is that it's probably not worthwhile going above the usual 3.7/4.2v

 

[Paradiso]

Thank you for the replies. I'm looking into Tenergy protected 3 volt CR123A batteries. Probably under 7 volts fully charged and might be workable with just an IN4001 diode.
I really have no clue about anything beyond simple circuits so I don't have much faith in my decisions about diodes/mosfets/regulators/resistors, etc

 

[Shreck]

I have been using two different mods and they both work quite well. Im gonna tell ya all up front I am using 2 cr2 batts that are unprotected, I DO know of the dangers and I DO NOT need a lecture, thank you.

1 Mod is an AAA box mod which fits two cr2s and runs through a 5 volt regulator from TI ( Actually runs a consistent 5.05 volts) no matter the battery level) when the batteries get below about 5.5 volts I get nothing at all. I have ordered them 5 at a time for free from TI and they send them to you with free shipping and no hassle. Part Number is:UCC383TDKTTT-5G3 . Make sure to run these after your switch otherwise you WILL overheat the regulator, as it needs to be grounded and will use the Batts juice and overheat really fast.

The other Mod Is a Magnum type using the same style cr2s. But I made a washer type of insert that goes in before the batteries that has 1 of the 1N4001 and 1of the 1N4004 resistors in it, run in series.
This runs a little hotter and drops in voltage whe the batteriees do, but works rather nicely as well. I have treid to use up to 4 of the resistors and that just doesnt give good results. 3 worked ok but when the batts drop in voltage you starting to get nothing from the atty real quick.

I also use the 6 volts straight up in another that I like sometimes as well. Just for that real Kick In The ... when I need it. With 36 MG that will satisfy my craving every time. Just make sure you keep er juiced up real good and dont let it dry out or you'll burn it up right quick.

Guess I better state: just cause I dont use protected batteries all the time you all really probably should.
there hows that?

 

[kinabaloo]

Good to get some confirmation that in normal use a 5v 1A+ regulator does not get too hot.

 

[Shreck]

Good to get some confirmation that in normal use a 5v 1A+ regulator does not get too hot.

It can get a little too warm if you are sucking on it non stop for too long , but with 5 volts I usually find that the 901 atomizer starts to get hot as well and just let it cool for a few minutes and its ready to go again. I guess I kinda use the atty as my temp gauge as the regulator is inside the casing. but it is against the outside wall of the casing and I have never noticed it getting too hot under what I consider normal use.
I will be using these in all my future mods as well.
Note that the higher voltage batteries you use, the more heat dissipation you will get from the regulator trying to hold the voltage at 5 volts output. You actually are losing any voltage over the 5 volt output, in the form of heat from the regulator.

 

[kinabaloo]

It can get a little too warm if you are sucking on it non stop for too long , but with 5 volts I usually find that the 901 atomizer starts to get hot as well and just let it cool for a few minutes and its ready to go again. I guess I kinda use the atty as my temp gauge as the regulator is inside the casing. but it is against the outside wall of the casing and I have never noticed it getting too hot under what I consider normal use.
I will be using these in all my future mods as well.
Note that the higher voltage batteries you use, the more heat dissipation you will get from the regulator trying to hold the voltage at 5 volts output. You actually are losing any voltage over the 5 volt output, in the form of heat from the regulator.

Indeed, consistent performance for longer, but at the expense of wasted power/more batteries.

I am not condoning use of unprotected batteries; I;m just interested in the regulator, although I find the usual 3.7/4.2 batteries more than sufficient.

The regulator provides a modicum of protection while they are in the case, from over-draining/shorting post regulator. But out of the case is another matter.

 

[Shreck]

Agreed Kinabaloo
I also do not condone the use of unprotected batteries. I use a protected charger for charging .
I realize I am taking a risk. though I feel a very small one. I know others feel differently (Some very strongly, and quite boisterously) , but there have been more than enough posts and comments regarding this already.
This was meant to help the OP in his decisions to make his mod his way, in the assumption that he is a responsible adult and can make his own decisions, without being told what to do.

Oh, yeah: Dont use unprotected batteries.
(Just coverin my Behind)

 

[Paradiso]

Thanks everyone for the input.
I'm like you Shreck, I'm pretty much a "F**k it" kinda guy. I just can't get the images of those melted down batteries outta my head. Not for nothing but I think I'll pass on having hot battery acid pored over my hands and face.

I just ordered the Voltage regulators from TI's site. Now I'm gonna get the batteries and figure out the enclosure. I'm thinking I'd like to do something more creative with the form factor this time around.

Kinabaloo, I too felt that 3.7 volts was plenty until I wired up a passthrough using a 510 atty that delivered the full 5 volts. HOLY CRAP! The vapor has texture, you feel like you can chew on it. Its this thick, velvety, voluptuous vapor. It is really quite pleasant.

 

[kinabaloo]

Thanks everyone for the input.
I'm like you Shreck, I'm pretty much a "F**k it" kinda guy. I just can't get the images of those melted down batteries outta my head. Not for nothing but I think I'll pass on having hot battery acid pored over my hands and face.

I just ordered the Voltage regulators from TI's site. Now I'm gonna get the batteries and figure out the enclosure. I'm thinking I'd like to do something more creative with the form factor this time around.

Kinabaloo, I too felt that 3.7 volts was plenty until I wired up a passthrough using a 510 atty that delivered the full 5 volts. HOLY CRAP! The vapor has texture, you feel like you can chew on it. Its this thick, velvety, voluptuous vapor. It is really quite pleasant.

I guess I'll just have to try it

 

[caesar]

I've tried both the fixed voltage regulators (7805) and variable (LM317) rated at 1.5A and they got hot by just a single 6-7 seconds puff.
I wish you good luck, but don't neglect the regulator as it will overheat the batteries.

 

[Shreck]

I haven't found that I need 6 or 7 second hits with 5 or more volts.(Talk about Aqualung! Wow) 2 to 3 is more than enuff and like I said, I haven't had overheat problems with the TI regulators I had.

 

[kinabaloo]

Yes, wise to locate the regulator away from the battery.

 

[dedmonwakin]

Thanks everyone for the input.
Kinabaloo, I too felt that 3.7 volts was plenty until I wired up a passthrough using a 510 atty that delivered the full 5 volts. HOLY CRAP! The vapor has texture, you feel like you can chew on it. Its this thick, velvety, voluptuous vapor. It is really quite pleasant.

I have to agree with you. To me, vaping at a high voltage imitates real smoking the best. Not only do you have immense vapor, but the heat is equal to that of a cigarette.

Also, I have been vaping with 5 to 5.2 volts for about 3 months which is how long I've been vaping. I switched from the standard ecig to battery pack/usb pass thru a week after starting. For both my rn4081 and 901, I am currently still on the same atty. I purchased a total of 8-10 attys for each e-cig and haven't had the originals go out yet.

I personally believe vaping at a higher voltage benefits the atty and the user experience. Of course the key is to never let the atty go dry. I don't clean, flush them, or use some cleaning concoction either.

I believe being able to totally flood the atty with fluid and having enough voltage running to burn through the flood helps with the longevity. When I say flood, I mean, I flood them. You can see the fluid kissing the nichrome. Of course, this is just my opinion, and it may be mere coincidence that both my 4081 atty and 901 attys can take extreme usage and what would appear to be to some, extreme abuse...but it works.

And if your wondering, "Yes, I Vape like Vick's Vapor Rub!" Meaning, these attys go through heavy usage.

 

[kinabaloo]

I have to agree with you. To me, vaping at a high voltage imitates real smoking the best. Not only do you have immense vapor, but the heat is equal to that of a cigarette.

Also, I have been vaping with 5 to 5.2 volts for about 3 months which is how long I've been vaping. I switched from the standard ecig to battery pack/usb pass thru a week after starting. For both my rn4081 and 901, I am currently still on the same atty. I purchased a total of 8-10 attys for each e-cig and haven't had the originals go out yet.

I personally believe vaping at a higher voltage benefits the atty and the user experience. Of course the key is to never let the atty go dry. I don't clean, flush them, or use some cleaning concoction either.

I believe being able to totally flood the atty with fluid and having enough voltage running to burn through the flood helps with the longevity. When I say flood, I mean, I flood them. You can see the fluid kissing the nichrome. Of course, this is just my opinion, and it may be mere coincidence that both my 4081 atty and 901 attys can take extreme usage and what would appear to be to some, extreme abuse...but it works.

And if your wondering, "Yes, I Vape like Vick's Vapor Rub!" Meaning, these attys go through heavy usage.

Disagree a bit with the higher voltage angle, but agree with the 'flooding=good' angle.

You have come a long way man

 

[dedmonwakin]

Disagree a bit with the higher voltage angle, but agree with the 'flooding=good' angle.

You have come a long way man

You maybe right. It may indeed not be the voltage, but the amperage that dictates the performance.

I have several battery packs that are 5.2v that range in different amp outs,(0.5amp, 0.6amp, and 1amp.) Needless to say, the 1A batt gets the most usage. The others that have half an amp output create no different TH or vapor than that of the original e-cig batt.

 

[EldarKinSlayer]

You maybe right. It may indeed not be the voltage, but the amperage that dictates the performance.

I have several battery packs that are 5.2v that range in different amp outs,(0.5amp, 0.6amp, and 1amp.) Needless to say, the 1A batt gets the most usage. The others that have half an amp output create no different TH or vapor than that of the original e-cig batt.

This is a point I have been worrying at around the edges. As I remember it, from my long ago days in High School Electronics, it is THE CURRENT which does the work, heating, burning out and killing, fuses are rated in amps not volts the difference between the heater coil and a fuse seems to me to be one of degree not type.

What I am driving at is should we be looking for higher amperage stock voltage power supplies?

 

[kinabaloo]

This is a point I have been worrying at around the edges. As I remember it, from my long ago days in High School Electronics, it is THE CURRENT which does the work, heating, burning out and killing, fuses are rated in amps not volts the difference between the heater coil and a fuse seems to me to be one of degree not type.

What I am driving at is should we be looking for higher amperage stock voltage power supplies?

Actually it is the power (volts times amps). So a more powerful atty will have a lower resistance; the resistance determines how much current will flow for a given voltage.

Of course, there is still a limitation. Half the length of a standard coil will have half the resistance and twice the current will flow; but it will get too hot and burn out.

A thicker nichrome wire would handle more power ok but it would have both a greater heat capacity in itself and a greater surface area for heat transfer (loss); hence more power would be required to reach the same temperature than a simple scaling of resistance would suggest (it is not a linear relationship). But using a slightly bigger diameter wire with a slightly lower resistance could be a good idea; so long as the battery can put out sufficient current.

A better battery is better because it has a low internal resistance - can give more current; in other words the voltage is less divided between the atty and itself (less voltage drop).

Fuses are rated in amps because mains voltage is a constant.