"high voltage" atty's?????

[sixofusernames]

i own a silver bullet, and vape at the standart 3.7 volts. i have seen somewhere "high voltage" attys, and "high voltage" e-juice. has anyone tried these products on the silver bullet? do you think they are better than the standard 501 atty's and regular juice? do you need to be vaping at higher than 3.7v to be considered "high voltage?" any comments on these products would be appreciated>thanks! leila

 

[Quick1]

The high voltage attys are generally if you stack 2 3.7v batteries. That's going to deliver 7.4v which will pretty much burn out something like a 510 almost immediately. 2 3v batteries delivering 6v shortens 510 atty life significantly.

The measuring factor for vaping at different voltages should be watts which pretty much correlates to the heat produced. You're vaporizing liquid with heat so it's the temperature at the coil that counts. Too cool and there isn't much vaporization and too hot and it's burnt.

Watts is determined by voltage and resistance (assuming the power supply can supply infinite current -- a device "draws" current, it's not that a power supply "pushes" current). A normal Joye 510 atty presents a resistance right at 2.2ohms. When you apply 3.7v it generates about 6watts of heat. Most people find that the sweet spot for a 510 atty is right about 10.8watts. Max vapor without much burnt.

If all you happen to have is 2 3.7 batteries (and they work in your PV) and you want more than a single 3.7 vape you're going to need a 510 HV atty. The one that presents 5.2ohms of resistance instead of the regular one that presents 2.2ohms. If you applied 7.4v to a regular 510 (assuming it didn't instantly melt, which it probably would) you'd be generating about 23.8watts of heat. Instantly burnt juice. Apply 7.4v to a 510 HV atty (5.2ohms) and you'll be generating 10.5watts. Right there at the sweet spot same as 5v with a regular 510 atty. Another thing to note in this case is that 1 3.7v battery with a regular 510 atty produces about the same watts as 2 3.7v batteries with a 510 HV atty (5.2ohms). Same watts but twice the battery... the batteries should last about twice as long.

If you want more than 3.7v with a regular 510 but find that 6v (2x3v) is too hot you might want to try a 510 HV (the 4.5ohm one). That would be a heat range right inbetween the two.

You need to decide on the whole solution to get the end result you're after. Batteries and the atty that's going to work with them or visa versa. 510s, 801s, 901, HV versions all have a different resistance. With batteries you're pretty much fixed at 3v and 3.7v which can be stacked for 2x the voltage.

"High voltage juice"? I haven't heard of that... They weren't talking about heavy nicotine levels were they? I have found that some of my juices taste better at 3.7 than 5v and with others it's the opposite. 5v always give more vapor and a stronger hit.

Lot of personal preference involved with all the above.

 

[Incognito]

Wow, thanks for that awesome write up Quick!

I knew some of the basics(more power = more heat, more resistance = less power), but I hadn't seen such a concise explanation yet.

You're awesome man

 

[Quick1]

I knew some of the basics(more power = more heat, more resistance = less power), but I hadn't seen such a concise explanation yet.

haha, thanks. It may not be exactly correct but I think it might be a good analogy.

 

[VaporMadness]

Some formulas...

P - power in watts
V - voltage in volts
R - resistance in ohms
I - current in amps

V = RI
The formula, I = V/R, determines how much current an atty will "want" to draw when a particular voltage is applied. The power supply may or may not be able to provide that much current across the load, in which case the voltage and power output will drop. This is why USB passthrus only work with a hi amp capable USB slot.

P = V²/R
Power goes up exponentially with voltage. If resistance is too small, things will heat up real fast and either fry the resistor (the atty) or drain the power supply real fast. This is why you need higher resistance attys for HV vaping.

P = VI
P = RI²

Here's a calculator to play with numbers.
Calculations voltage current resistance and electric power - electricity calculation - electrical power general formula ohms law physics formula wheel power formulas amps watts volts ohms cosine equation audio engineering pie chart charge - sengpiela

So 10 to 11 watts is the sweet spot, good to know.

 

[mwa102464]

My opinion differs a bit on this. HV Atty's are built for 6v like 2x RCR123 Tenergy batts at least most all the HV Atty's out there. ImeoAtty's are speced a bit differently though, he has ones speced for the 7v vaping but they have different specs, and a few other out there might have higher speced Attys too, be careful and make sure you get the right ones for if your vaping at 6v or 7.2v or 7.4v There is a difference I beleieve, I have both accept for the fact you can use the higher speced ones to go at 6v

 

[Quick1]

An inexpensive digital multimeter ($30 - $40) is almost a must dealing with all this.

Takes a second to check the resistance of your atty and or the voltage of your battery. Sometimes they don't fail completely. Joye 510s should start out new at 2.1-2.3 ohms. I've had one go to 4.5 ohms. It did warm up and make just a tiny bit of vapor. I thought my battery was discharged or I had flooded the atty. It worked for just a little while longer on the 5v pt and then died completely. Atty's from different sources measure up differently even though they're supposed to be the same and attys from the same source can be inconsistent.

You can check your batteries to see where they're at when things go down hill. or right off the charger to see if that's all working correctly.

and everybody needs a multimeter for everything else around the house.

 

[MastiffMike]

For those that haven't seen it yet, Ralph T posted a PHENOMINAL chart that's helpful with different voltage/atty configurations:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/71422-atomizer-battery-watts-chart.html

 

[jboze]

With all of this info, is there any benifit to using a HV atty at 6v over using a regular atty at 5v if you get the same wattage out of both?

Like does a higher voltage and resistance lead to more vapor, throat hit, etc if the wattage remains unchanged?

 

[MastiffMike]

With all of this info, is there any benifit to using a HV atty at 6v over using a regular atty at 5v if you get the same wattage out of both?

Like does a higher voltage and resistance lead to more vapor, throat hit, etc if the wattage remains unchanged?

My personal experience is limited but it's my understanding that no, if the wattage is the same the TH, vapor, etc will be the same. The only real difference would be atty life as HV attys are designed to handle the higher voltage better (regular attys aren't designed for >3.7v).

Hopefully someone who's more knowledgable could weigh in on this?!?!

 

[Quick1]

No. No difference with respect to the vapor since you're producing the same heat. Now there could be a difference if the surface area of the coil is different but I would expect that to be negligible. Vapor and throat hit should be equivalent.

If you are trying to reproduce the experience of using a 5v pt with 6 volts of battery then that's the way to do it. Equivalent watts will give you equivalent vaping.

 

[jboze]

Kinda what I thought. 10watts=10watts no matter how you get there.

Guess I'll stick to regular atties at 5v on the BB PT to enercell adapter. It seems that there's no reason to go to 6 or 7v with HV atties.

 

[Quick1]

The only real difference would be atty life as HV attys are designed to handle the higher voltage better (regular attys aren't designed for >3.7v).

Ummm, well, sort of. If the wattage is the same then you might expect sort of the same atty life (the assumption is that they're constructed pretty much the same out of pretty much the same material of pretty much the same dimensions.

I don't know how they increase the resistance on the HV attys. I believe it may just be an added resistor in which case you would be producing the same wattage with the same coil and would expect the same life.

 

[Quick1]

Kinda what I thought. 10watts=10watts no matter how you get there.

Guess I'll stick to regular atties at 5v on the BB PT to enercell adapter. It seems that there's no reason to go to 6 or 7v with HV atties.

Ahhh, but if you REALLY like the 5v experience you can get that with batteries when your cord isn't long enough

 

[MastiffMike]

Ummm, well, sort of. If the wattage is the same then you might expect sort of the same atty life (the assumption is that they're constructed pretty much the same out of pretty much the same material of pretty much the same dimensions.

I don't know how they increase the resistance on the HV attys. I believe it may just be an added resistor in which case you would be producing the same wattage with the same coil and would expect the same life.

I thought the resistance was raised by a slightly different coil, like more windings = longer coil wire length = more resistance?

 

[Quick1]

I thought the resistance was raised by a slightly different coil, like more windings = longer coil wire length = more resistance?

hmmm, I have no idea. and it's late and that is starting to exceed my brain capabilities at the moment.

Longer wire would make for more resistance. Same wattage so same amount of heat but spread over more surface area. but the coils are in close proximity so a drop of vapor is exposed to about the same cumulative heat as a shorter wire with a higher surface temperature so the vaping is equivalent but the coil lasts longer??? I think I'm going to bed...

 

[jboze]

Ahhh, but if you REALLY like the 5v experience you can get that with batteries when your cord isn't long enough

meh, 6v with a 801 or 901 atty will do me just fine when I'm out and about. Damn near 10watts anyway.

 

[MastiffMike]

hmmm, I have no idea. and it's late and that is starting to exceed my brain capabilities at the moment.

Longer wire would make for more resistance. Same wattage so same amount of heat but spread over more surface area. but the coils are in close proximity so a drop of vapor is exposed to about the same cumulative heat as a shorter wire with a higher surface temperature so the vaping is equivalent but the coil lasts longer??? I think I'm going to bed...

My brain ALWAYS hurts when I attempt to understand this stuff! Anyway, we're probably splitting hairs as I doubt there's a HUGE difference either way.

 

[cddz]

Another thing to consider, 10 watts is not nessisarily the sweet spot for all atties. A 510 has a shorter barrel, less area for the vapor to cool before it hits your throat. An 801 on the other hand is much longer and the vapor has time to cool. a 901 is longer than a 510 yet shorter than a 801 and both would respectivly differ in thier "sweet spot". Everyone's tastes will be different, just as atties are different.
Chad

 

[redrhino]

The high voltage attys are generally if you stack 2 3.7v batteries. That's going to deliver 7.4v which will pretty much burn out something like a 510 almost immediately. 2 3v batteries delivering 6v shortens 510 atty life significantly.

The measuring factor for vaping at different voltages should be watts which pretty much correlates to the heat produced. You're vaporizing liquid with heat so it's the temperature at the coil that counts. Too cool and there isn't much vaporization and too hot and it's burnt.

Watts is determined by voltage and resistance (assuming the power supply can supply infinite current -- a device "draws" current, it's not that a power supply "pushes" current). A normal Joye 510 atty presents a resistance right at 2.2ohms. When you apply 3.7v it generates about 6watts of heat. Most people find that the sweet spot for a 510 atty is right about 10.8watts. Max vapor without much burnt.

If all you happen to have is 2 3.7 batteries (and they work in your PV) and you want more than a single 3.7 vape you're going to need a 510 HV atty. The one that presents 5.2ohms of resistance instead of the regular one that presents 2.2ohms. If you applied 7.4v to a regular 510 (assuming it didn't instantly melt, which it probably would) you'd be generating about 23.8watts of heat. Instantly burnt juice. Apply 7.4v to a 510 HV atty (5.2ohms) and you'll be generating 10.5watts. Right there at the sweet spot same as 5v with a regular 510 atty. Another thing to note in this case is that 1 3.7v battery with a regular 510 atty produces about the same watts as 2 3.7v batteries with a 510 HV atty (5.2ohms). Same watts but twice the battery... the batteries should last about twice as long.

If you want more than 3.7v with a regular 510 but find that 6v (2x3v) is too hot you might want to try a 510 HV (the 4.5ohm one). That would be a heat range right inbetween the two.

You need to decide on the whole solution to get the end result you're after. Batteries and the atty that's going to work with them or visa versa. 510s, 801s, 901, HV versions all have a different resistance. With batteries you're pretty much fixed at 3v and 3.7v which can be stacked for 2x the voltage.

"High voltage juice"? I haven't heard of that... They weren't talking about heavy nicotine levels were they? I have found that some of my juices taste better at 3.7 than 5v and with others it's the opposite. 5v always give more vapor and a stronger hit.

Lot of personal preference involved with all the above.

Excellent write up Quick1