Highest voltage you can vape???

[Mike Sheda]

I think vapers are even more susceptible to this because we stick the sparkly bit in out mouth. This one time i rebuilt my rsst i started getting the strangest sensation at my lips, was very weak but kinda salty and only occurred when i was holding down the power button. Soon i figured it out - the extra wire from the positive lead was making contact with the mouthpiece (which is supposed to be negatively charged but apparently not that well) and i was getting zapped in my mouth

I find that shocking!

 

[riixxii]

I vape on a DNA20 with a vivinova 1.3ohm coil around 3/16" Nextel at around 12-15watts depending on the juice. That's equivalent to approx. 4-4.5volts. Sweet vapes using a 50/50 blend juices

 

[Ryedan]

Ding ding ding

Notice, normal resistance coil...MORE voltage = higher wattage and the coil DOESN'T look like a short (causing 'splody 'splody) to the battery

It would actually be safer for sub ohmers to up the volts on regular resistance coils than go closer to a pure short

Batteries heat up when they are drained too quick. They can be safety issues if they get too hot. A dead short will cause maximum battery output and maximum heat build up. This is true in both high resistance coil setups and low resistance coil setups.

When we have a short between the coil and the wick it is a partial short of the circuit. The resistance goes down approximately by the percentage of the coil that is removed from the circuit. So if we have a 20 watt setup that shorts to 30 watts, both high and low resistance setups would draw half again as much power from the battery. IMO there is no battery safety difference between the two scenarios.

It's not how close to a dead short the coil is that matters, it's all about how close to the output limit of the battery we are that matters.

 

[The Ocelot]

I didn't realize when I quit smoking it would involve so much left brain stuff.

 

[John_]

Would be interested in seeing a 1000 Ohm heating coil for vaping though.

100 volts @ 1000 ohms would make it a 10w vape illustrating how volts by themselves mean nothing.

 

[Ryedan]

I didn't realize when I quit smoking it would involve so much left brain stuff.

The only left brain stuff vaping requires is figuring out how to increase power until it tastes bad and then backing off a bit.

The rest is from left brain dominant people who have too much time on their hands

(Yes, before anyone takes offense, that includes me)

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Batteries heat up when they are drained too quick. They can be safety issues if they get too hot. A dead short will cause maximum battery output and maximum heat build up. This is true in both high resistance coil setups and low resistance coil setups.

When we have a short between the coil and the wick it is a partial short of the circuit. The resistance goes down approximately by the percentage of the coil that is removed from the circuit. So if we have a 20 watt setup that shorts to 30 watts, both high and low resistance setups would draw half again as much power from the battery. IMO there is no battery safety difference between the two scenarios.

It's not how close to a dead short the coil is that matters, it's all about how close to the output limit of the battery we are that matters.

agreed, but would current flow be divided amongst the cells, each cell is providing 1/2 the overall current

 

[AttyPops]

agreed, but would current flow be divided amongst the cells, each cell is providing 1/2 the overall current

In parallel, yes. In series...that's a no-no.

Amp limits of cells don't "stack" like the voltage does. In other words...the amp limit of a set of stacked cells is basically the limit of a single cell. And more voltage in a stack means more "oomph" to push the amps. So pushing more amps with stacked cells (due to the higher net voltage of stacked cells) makes it easier to have problems during a short. Hence the justifiable trepidation of stacking batteries.

Also why I use protected batteries and a voltage regulator with short protection in my stacked battery vv box mod.

I secretly suspect a wattage limit in reality. IDK what happens if you stack 4 or 10 or 50 cells and then have a drain of near max-amps of a single cell. Could be bad.

 

[Ryedan]

agreed, but would current flow be divided amongst the cells, each cell is providing 1/2 the overall current

In tube mods with 2 cells in series, you double the voltage and the current does not increase. With 2 cells in parallel you get twice the current capability with no increase in voltage.

But the issue for me is that 2 cells in series in mechanical mods add risk with for me no gain. I have no idea what the implications of more than 2 cells would be, but I doubt it would be safer. In parallel you gain time between charges or more amp draw capability and maybe no added risk. I've never looked into that.

 

[Jaguar07]

Batteries heat up when they are drained too quick. They can be safety issues if they get too hot. A dead short will cause maximum battery output and maximum heat build up. This is true in both high resistance coil setups and low resistance coil setups.

When we have a short between the coil and the wick it is a partial short of the circuit. The resistance goes down approximately by the percentage of the coil that is removed from the circuit. So if we have a 20 watt setup that shorts to 30 watts, both high and low resistance setups would draw half again as much power from the battery. IMO there is no battery safety difference between the two scenarios.

It's not how close to a dead short the coil is that matters, it's all about how close to the output limit of the battery we are that matters.

There's a potential factor you are leaving out.
All sub ohm coils are used on mechanical devices. Mechanicals do not have circuits that cut off or out as the current exceeds a given point, built in.
If you are using a protected battery, Great! If you are using a mechanical to sub ohm without a protected battery, or a safety fuse of some fashion, ruh-roh.

So the risk is somewhat higher for those that sub ohm. Most that are using "standard" resistance coils of 1.5 Ohms or higher are often using variable voltage or variable wattage devices that offer some protection.

I use a mechanical sub ohm setup from time to time, with protected batteries.

 

[Ryedan]

There's a potential factor you are leaving out.
All sub ohm coils are used on mechanical devices. Mechanicals do not have circuits that cut off or out as the current exceeds a given point, built in.
If you are using a protected battery, Great! If you are using a mechanical to sub ohm without a protected battery, or a safety fuse of some fashion, ruh-roh.

So the risk is somewhat higher for those that sub ohm. Most that are using "standard" resistance coils of 1.5 Ohms or higher are often using variable voltage or variable wattage devices that offer some protection.

I use a mechanical sub ohm setup from time to time, with protected batteries.

Yes, there are other factors involved for sure. I was responding to the issue of being closer to a pure short by using very low resistance coils.

Your point is a very good one.

There is also that IMR batteries do not easily burn when shorted because of their chemistry which is a pretty safe bet, while protected ICR cells rely on electronics for that and that can more easily fail. I have never heard of a single cell mechanical mod becoming a missile or exploding, but i have heard a few times of charging eGo batteries becoming missiles, even with the correct charger being used.

Being an educated consumer and knowing how to mitigate risk as best you can is all we can do. It's just not always straightforward.

 

[twiggums]

I see higher voltage vaping in the future. It's the simplest way to get around the current limitations we're reaching. at higher voltages you do need to worry about electrocution and possible arcing, but we're talking higher voltages than we'd likely need. We could go with parallel circuits to reduce the current draw on the batteries, but every other part of the circuit will still be subject to the current.

It's the direction the RC world had to go to get around current restrictions. They now run 12s+ packs and systems run cooler and more efficiently due to not having to draw potentially hundreds of amps. now obviously we don't need 12 batteries in series and that'd be nuts, but i could see 2-3s packs and balance chargers in the future. The main issue i see with multiple cells stacked is to be sure you've got healthy cells, as one failing can be bad. But this is easy enough done with a balance charger that can be sure packs are staying balanced. Only time will tell.

 

[tj99959]

Yes, there are other factors involved for sure. I was responding to the issue of being closer to a pure short by using very low resistance coils.

Your point is a very good one.

There is also that IMR batteries do not easily burn when shorted because of their chemistry which is a pretty safe bet, while protected ICR cells rely on electronics for that and that can more easily fail. I have never heard of a single cell mechanical mod becoming a missile or exploding, but i have heard a few times of charging eGo batteries becoming missiles, even with the correct charger being used.

Being an educated consumer and knowing how to mitigate risk as best you can is all we can do. It's just not always straightforward.

This was a major factor when I decided to not use ANY PV that I could not see with my own eyes what battery cell was in it. All those eGo type batteries are made in China by Whono Ho

 

[SissySpike]

This was a major factor when I decided to not use ANY PV that I could not see with my own eyes what battery cell was in it. All those eGo type batteries are made in China by Whono Ho

Good point egos are the most common type of battery we see reported failure with. But that could also be due to the lack of quality chargers being used to charge them.

While electrocution is a interesting subject Im pretty sure with the power we are using youed have to poke some lead wires directly in to someone heart to cause serious injury.

I guess if all of the conditions were just right a wall adapter and a pass threw could present a risk of injury but really no more than anything else electrical we use.

 

[Zipp]

There's a potential factor you are leaving out.
All sub ohm coils are used on mechanical devices. Mechanicals do not have circuits that cut off or out as the current exceeds a given point, built in.
If you are using a protected battery, Great! If you are using a mechanical to sub ohm without a protected battery, or a safety fuse of some fashion, ruh-roh.

So the risk is somewhat higher for those that sub ohm. Most that are using "standard" resistance coils of 1.5 Ohms or higher are often using variable voltage or variable wattage devices that offer some protection.

I use a mechanical sub ohm setup from time to time, with protected batteries.

The risk of blowing up a battery comes from drawing more current than it can handle which causes it's temperature to rise higher than it can handle. The important part is the current being drawn, NOT the coil resistance. Low resistance and high wattage have exactly the same risk.

I think one of the reasons why there's so much misinformation about what's dangerous and what isn't is because our devices will show us voltage and wattage, but none show current - the only part that actually matters in the operation of our devices. Anyone contemplating vaping outside the normal power range achieved using standard resistance coils and standard vaping voltages NEEDS to learn ohm's law and calculate the current being drawn by their device. Volts don't matter - you get hit with 15kV every time you touch the car door and get a static shock. Ohms are only half the story - it's a useless number without the voltage and ohms law (even when it's a very small number!). Watts obscure what's happening unless you do the math - 1A at 12v is 12W and so is 4A at 3V. The current is what heats the coil. It's also what heats the battery. ONLY the current does it. If you don't know how much current you're drawing, you're playing with fire - or at least you will be if things go wrong...

 

[mvroman]

I rebuild my own coils for my protank and davide, averaging around 1.6ohms on them. Depending on juice I crank my vamo up to 15 watts which would equal out to almost 10 volts (rough math there) so yes, you can do it. It isnt bad but you need to know what you are doing.

I wick with cotton and my coils are what they call micro coils, covering almost the entire wick.l and really close together.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Oomee]

Volts don't matter - you get hit with 15kV every time you touch the car door and get a static shock.

Rubbish and dangerous .
It is the current that tends to do the killing, but it is the volts that pushes the current in the first place .
Telling people how 15KV doesn't matter, then giving static as an example is Darwin awards level .

The reason why static doesn't kill is because it IS static , as soon as it tries to move IE flow , the potential difference is gone with very little current .

The safe limit is 50Volt , but that is for outside the skin .
As pointed out the drip tip is in your mouth , a much lower resistance.
If a sharp edge on the mod were to cut the skin on the left hand , drip tip in mouth and 50volt across the device you could be becoming vapour in the Demi Moore/Patrick Swayze sense .

CBA going into advantages and disadvantages , it is better to just keep things safe peeps .
Don't fek about with lithium batteries , don't read Ohms law and think you are the new Emmet Brown .

 

[Zipp]

Rubbish and dangerous .
It is the current that tends to do the killing, but it is the volts that pushes the current in the first place .
Telling people how 15KV doesn't matter, then giving static as an example is Darwin awards level .

The reason why static doesn't kill is because it IS static , as soon as it tries to move IE flow , the potential difference is gone with very little current .

The safe limit is 50Volt , but that is for outside the skin .
As pointed out the drip tip is in your mouth , a much lower resistance.
If a sharp edge on the mod were to cut the skin on the left hand , drip tip in mouth and 50volt across the device you could be becoming vapour in the Demi Moore/Patrick Swayze sense .

CBA going into advantages and disadvantages , it is better to just keep things safe peeps .
Don't fek about with lithium batteries , don't read Ohms law and think you are the new Emmet Brown .

Ok, a static shock probably wasn't the best example. I was just pointing out that with low enough current, voltage doesn't do much (until you get to really high voltages that will never be seen in a PV). The point was that people here have a tendency to talk about everything BUT current, when current is the most important factor both for performance and safety. Most people are unlikely to ever vape at unsafe voltages, but a lot of folks are right on the edge when it comes to the current that they're drawing from their batteries.

 

[Oomee]

Indeed Zipp .

I have found that it is better to just give the cold hard line of safety , as greater details just add more confusion which could lead to a dangerous misinterpretation .

There is little to be gained in farting around with silly supplies or loads in vaping IMHO .

I do think that the future may be in the atomizer materials and feeds .
Could have some honeycomb ceramic that has been coated in carbon , pour juice through and put a voltage across it ... hey presto intense vape cloud . Or a silicone tube that has an heating element moulded into it .
Might have to pump up the pressure in the juice chamber like priming an old paraffin lamp !

 

[Ryedan]

I think one of the reasons why there's so much misinformation about what's dangerous and what isn't is because our devices will show us voltage and wattage, but none show current - the only part that actually matters in the operation of our devices. Anyone contemplating vaping outside the normal power range achieved using standard resistance coils and standard vaping voltages NEEDS to learn ohm's law and calculate the current being drawn by their device. Volts don't matter - you get hit with 15kV every time you touch the car door and get a static shock. Ohms are only half the story - it's a useless number without the voltage and ohms law (even when it's a very small number!). Watts obscure what's happening unless you do the math - 1A at 12v is 12W and so is 4A at 3V. The current is what heats the coil. It's also what heats the battery. ONLY the current does it. If you don't know how much current you're drawing, you're playing with fire - or at least you will be if things go wrong...

Watts determine heat production.

From this web site:

"Power - Watts (P)

Power is a measure of the overall amount of work being done in a system in relation to time (energy used per second). In an electrical system power can be calculated by using the formula P = V I. From this you can see how the voltage and current in a system relate to the overall amount of power used. The unit of a Watt (W) is equivalent to joules per second , therefore one Watt is equal to one joule per second.

Energy - Joules (E)

Energy is a fundamental quantity that every physical system possesses. The quantity of energy available allows us to predict how much work a system could be made to do, or how much heat it can produce or absorb. For any sort of physical change energy is involved. The change can be anything such as temperature, movement, voltage, etc."