Anybody, anywhere, anytime.....claim Him as your Savior.....that's what God wants.
Historic example or Parable?
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Anybody, anywhere, anytime.....claim Him as your Savior.....that's what God wants.
I missed this Lisa, but thought I'd respond.
As I understand it "hell" is where people who die apart from God are now. It, and all it's inhabitants will be cast into the "Lake of fire" after final judgement. I haven't seen any evidence that Satan and his demons are tormenting anyone outside of this mortal life. (Please let me know if I have overlooked evidence to the contrary in scripture somewhere.) Hell and the Lake of fire to come are under the control of God. Satan and his are destined to be bound as are all who reject God.
Having said that, here is my own thinking on the "Lake of fire". Just follow me here and tell me if I'm crazy and please don't mis-understand; I am not claiming this to be biblical doctrine.. only my attempt to wrap my brain around it.
As has been mentioned in this thread, though we had a beginning, none of us shall have an end. We will live eternally in either place.
Fire is used in the Bible many times as a symbol of purity and purification. Even scientifically, fire reduces what it consumes to it's most basic elements. Heat is used to burn off impurities. In the Bible, fire consumes that which is impure and of no use to God.
It seems to me that those unsaved will undergo the fire of "purification" for eternity. Since they die in a state of eternal impurity, and since they cannot be snuffed out, they will forever endure that unending process. An unending fire burning off never ending impurity.
Make sense? Thoughts?
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I've brought this up in Bible studues before.
To me as a kid growing up, I used to picture Satan in Hell with red skin from head to toe, horns on his head, a long tail ending shaped like an arrow-head and the legs and cloven feet of a goat, white teeth and yellow eyes. He was there in Hell and all of his minions and he would just poke (any human who went there) with sharp pitch-forks while waded in liquid fire waist to chest deep. The bottom line picture was that Satan was in charge of punishment and torture in his kingdom.
I think that is a classic "picture" of what hell is like to a child. I'm not sure how much of that picture is responsible to my mothers explanations as a non praticing Catholic, and how much from cartoons. I was pretty young when that picture was burned in. I look back end remember independantly thinking things that I now grow to find are the core beliefs in many false religions. As an 8 yr old I remember reasoning that all of the different worlds "gods" are the one true God's way of showing himself to all people. A totem pole monster here, buhda there, Zuess, and on and on, all the same god just different ways to reach everyone. I wasn't taught that be that is what I believed. There are many out there who understands that fantasy as the ultimate worlds truth.
All to say, I wonder how much influence Satan actually has in the world as far as forming our hidden understanding?
What a picture, for a child to be faced with during times of moral temptation, "If you do this then Satan will get you for your disobedience". Fear what Satan will do, instead of fear of the Lord.
I think we would all be surprised to see the lengths that Satan has gone though to deceive and destroy throughout history.
LOL....no you're not crazy. I think it's hard for all of us to fully understand or wrap our minds around a concept like eternity.
But I do believe that hell and those in hell will eventually be destroyed (the second death).
Lisa do you think it is more your heart or your head talking? This is a tough topic to discuss sometimes.
(Example) My heart tell me that I don't want there to be a Hell and for people to perish, but my head tells me there is.
So do you think that stance comes from you heart, your head or both?
(Example) My heart tell me that I don't want there to be a Hell and for people to perish, but my head tells me there is.
So do you think that stance comes from you heart, your head or both?
I guess both. I've never believed in hell before, until recently. I never wanted to believe it, so I dismissed it and found reasons why it wouldn't/couldn't exist.
Until I heard of some testimonies from people who actually went there and saw it and came back to tell about it. Then I had no choice but to believe that it's a real place. I still don't want to believe it, but I have no choice. It's an awful terrible place, worse then our worst nightmares, and I believe that it makes Jesus so incredibly sad that even one soul ends up there. I can't even imagine the pain this causes Him.
But, I just can't believe that it will last forever. I believe it's a forever cutting off from God's Kingdom, that is forever. But, it does say in the bible that even hell itself will be cast into the lake of fire, the second death.
13 "And the sea gave up the dead
which were in them; and death and
Hell delivered up the dead which
were in them and they were judged
according to their works."
14 "And death and Hell were
Cast into the Lake of fire.
This is the Second Death.
15"And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire."
(Rev:20:14-15).
and "DO NOT FEAR THOSE WHO CAN
ONLY KILL THE BODY BUT FEAR
GOD WHO CAN DESTROY YOUR
BODY AND SOUL IN HELL."
(Matt:10:28).
Consider... What is purification for? Isn't it so that something will be, at some point, purified and acceptable. Is it possible that the process is NOT unending and forever? Is it possible ... since there is a "resurrection" for those who suffer from the "first death" that there might be a type of end-of-process for those who are suffering from the "second death"?
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Nope. They died in a perpetual state of impurity, that much is certain. They can never be purified, thus the eternal flame.
But I'm just completely making stuff up here. The only thing I believe I understand from scripture is that just as the reward for the believers will be eternal, so will the final judgement of the unbelievers.
The 2nd death doesn't mean a snuffing out of existence anymore than the first death did. It is just a change of residence. The 2nd time around however, it is final.
But I'm just completely making stuff up here. The only thing I believe I understand from scripture is that just as the reward for the believers will be eternal, so will the final judgement of the unbelievers.
The 2nd death doesn't mean a snuffing out of existence anymore than the first death did. It is just a change of residence. The 2nd time around however, it is final.
The same Greek word used for "eternal" for both believers with God, and unbelievers under eternal separation and punishment.
What ever the time frame of God's existance, Christian's existance with Him, and non believers active punishment is the same.
Ok question: Why did Jesus go to hell for 3 days and preach after He died on the cross?
Ok, where did He go and how does that place differ from Hell? And, why did He go there? Need info please
I explained this a few days ago (maybe in another thread). Hell isn't necessarily the "lake of fire". Before the atoning death and resurrection, there was one of two places that souls would go after they died. For those who died without believing in the coming messiah, they went to Hades. For those who trusted that God would send the messiah to save them from their sins, they went to Abraham's bosom. As showed in the story of the OP, they were pretty much the same place separated by a chasm. On the Hades side, there was (and would be) torment until the great white throne judgment. On the other side, in Abraham's bosom, they were comforted. This is where old testament "believers" went until the messiah came (Abraham, Sarah, Jacob, and many others. When Christ died, He descended into Abraham's bosom to tell those people that He had come and that His work had been finished. He did NOT descend into Hades to tell those people, "I told you so!! Nener, Nener!" It was too late for them to do anything about their salvation. Since Christ, the unsaved when they die go to Hades to await final judgment. The saved go directly to be with God. (To be absent from the body is to be present with God.) Christ has already atoned for their sins. There is no judgment for those who are in Christ.
Why is it certain? I think that might have been the reason for SG's question. Does it really say eternal? From everything that I've read the real translation is age or age-biding (i.e. within the age). And contextually, "age" had a specific time limit.
I believe their existence will be eternal... but if one's assumption that they will never be purified is NOT accurate, then NEITHER is the assumption that their being "unblievers" or that their "judgement" is eternal.
Take away the belief that it is eternal and it opens a fresh opportunity. Like I said to SG before.."perhaps the Good News is even better news that we thought."
Is it possible that the scripture really means what it says in Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
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