nicotine is not tobacco product ...........and for tropical bob you would fail a nicotine test but that does not make you a smoker. Someone who chews is not a smoker.
Home Test for Nicotine Blood Levels ???
- Thread starter JoAnna1010
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Absolutely. The criteria now is not "smoking", but nicotine use. We e-smokers are no better in the view of insurance companies than a chain-smoker of cigarettes.
This is true and Insurance companies will soon start asking your bathing habits
Thanks for the update, JoAnna! Another very interesting result. Just when I thought that one has to vape intensively xx-high to max-out the test... So, this was achieved with medium-high liquid vaping? Could you add some estimate on your mileage? May not have been the same amount of cotinine (the proxy for delivered nicotine) from vaping and analogs, since highest test level is anything above the cutoff (> 1000 ng/ml). But certainly appears to be effective vaping.
Seems there can be much variation for different individuals. Just compare some graph, randomly picked from a scientific study, showing smoking habit and cotinine in urine concentrations [ng/ml] of 128 test subjects. Graph for illustration, not meant to be authoritative, here. While there is a dose dependence for the average, not everyone is the average, as reflected by the large error bars. Damn, I really thought this would turn out to be simple!
Source: Ziegler et al. (2004): Clinical Correlation between the Consumption of Nicotine and Cotinine Concentrations etc., Pharmacology 72:254259.
Im by no means an expert in biology or medicine. I just find the question of actual nicotine delivery from vaping personally interesting and highly important. And while we keep speculating, Id certainly prefer to read some professional experts informed opinion... But looking from my laymens perspective, I think that all results from the home tests (as gratefully posted by Minimike, Kate51, JoAnna1010) are (1.) internally consistent and (2.) do support the prevailing notion from user experiences and the first reports of the Laugesen/Ruyan-team, suggesting that vaping is significantly less effective for nicotine delivery than analog smoking.
It has to be noted that the Nymox home test appears to come with a relatively low cutoff (equivalent to 1000 ng/ml cotinine in urine, according to the simplistic product flyers). Most moderate smokers of 10-19 cigarettes per day would score the highest level, score above the 1000 ng/ml cutoff (see the illustrating graph above). Moreover, reading from this illustrating graph, even some occasional to light smokers would score above this cutoff. Just dont bash JoAnna for her personal body functions, individually different for every one.
Nevertheless, a value of 200-500 ng/ml reported from someone (Kate51) who - by all means - reported constantly vaping 24 mg strength (and so Id guess runs > 2 ml/day) IS a bench. There is not much chance that a one-pack-a-day smoker would return such a low cotinine level. But certainly, more testing and professional, better informed opinions are needed.
Very interesting stuff. Add me to the list of potential test candidates. Can't promise that, but I hope to. It seems there were two manufacturers of 2 different tests, or did I misunderstand? Any ways, we should all be taking the same test, and same sample (urine or saliva) and that just may be-not sure.
The margin of error in the graph presented seems quite revealing at least to this uneducated vaper. 1-9 cigarettes gives a cutoff at the 50% level. You smoke 9 cigs you'll be at the high range. You smoke 1 or 2 you'll be at the low range. 5 cigs, or average, is the mean in the bars on the graph--at the 50% --1/2 level. Same for 10-19.
Any ways, I'm in! I agree though, we will need many more "volunteers."
Ok I am going to the doc for blood work on Monday.......While I'm in there they might as well test my nicotine levels too. What tests should I ask for and should I vape right up til the test or not vape when I wake up. I'll go first thing in the a.m.
is testing blood the best way to go?
is testing blood the best way to go?
WooHoo!! I got a #3 level showing a bar!!! More to come later, gotta get to work now.
Needless to say, I am a happy lady today!!
Needless to say, I am a happy lady today!!
Last edited:
I hope you will let us know what you find out from your doc.
The Nymox tests do not call for any cessation.
Early morning or late night not indicated as preferable.
Yours would depend on your doc's testing. I was disappointed to hear at our hospital that they do only positive/negative, not quantity of Cotinine in blood unless it is requested, must be scheduled 2-3 mos out. Ridiculously cavalier, I think. No test kits available at all in Pharmacy. So I felt kind of lonely asking for test kits, was forced to wait for mailorder.
Let us know what you find out, good luck!
That's great! Basically, you're saying that your test results from urine and saliva are the same level, and your nicotine level is approximately 1/10 compared to what it probably was from smoking. When are you gonna smoke and test?
No way!!That's great! Basically, you're saying that your test results from urine and saliva are the same level, and your nicotine level is approximately 1/10 compared to what it probably was from smoking. When are you gonna smoke and test?
I'll get whatever data I need from published tests, I would not do that to myself ever again. My first test told me that I was already absorbing only about 1/10th of the nicotine without all those other components of cigarettes, my second test shows that I could indeed cut back from 24mg/ml juice to 18mg/ml, and if I live the rest of my life doing this level of nicotine that would be fine with me. Who knows, in a couple months I may try another cutback. I made the decision based on my comfort level. This level was also a piece of cake, not even a ripple of being "denied" anything, the non-smoking decision was made by the PV itself. I was totally comfortable doing that. I am Stoked!! Just think, not quite five months ago my Cotinine level would have been around 4000 OR MORE ng/ml. Now I am handling 200 ng/ml very well. That would be even less a span (1/2 that) than the Ruyan Tests. What an amazing thing. Yes, I wish I had known about these tests then, but would have just maxed them out, I still would have had to rely on established reports, as I am now. I love my Janty Stick!! If I could give it up today, I would, and then I'd have to frame it with a photo of myself looking healthy for the first time in 44 years. Yah, except for being 44 1/2 years older!
Last edited:
Hi Kate51, dont know, but seems a bit confusing right now. Perhaps youve made a typo in assigning the cotinine levels to actual concentrations? The level #s should correspond for test strips designed for salvia and for urine, since they are scaled to return a measure of nicotine exposition. Testing one user for salvia and urine should return identical level #s but correspond to differing concentrations for urine and salvia (by factor 5). So, vaping 24 mg/ml juice returned level #4 (from urine testing) and vaping 18 mg/ml returned level #3 (from salvia testing)? Reading level #4 from urine on urine strip should correspond to about 200 - 500 ng/ml cotinine in urine (and correspond to ~ 40 - 100 ng/ml in salvia). Reading level #3 from salvia on salvia strip should correspond to about 20 - 40 ng/ml in salvia (and correspond to ~ 100 - 200 ng/ml cotinine in urine), afaik.
[Check: your posts presently reads to me as if you would have increased the cotinine level from 200 - 500 ng/ml urine (corresponding to ~ 40 - 100 ng/ml in salvia) to 100 - 200 ng/ml cotinine in salvia (corresponding to ~ 500 - 1000 ng/ml in urine) by reducing nicotine strength from 24 to 18 mg/ml. Which does not make sense. I'd guess you meant Level #3 represents 100 - 200 ng/ml Cotinine in Urine"]
took me 2 days to explain to the doctors what a cotinine test was and why I wanted it but they did some research and are attempting it so we'll see what happens........I was vaping 3ml of 24-36 so (30) a day up until the test if 85-90mg's a day doesn't shoot me off the chart then nothing will. Equal to 6 packs of camel lights
Ok, what I garnered from that is that the saliva test itself is geared with the factor, so the Cotinine levels are Real-time, in other words the two tests are in agreement as far as the cotinine readings. (They would register what they are, factors accepted.) The urine test is supposedly factored for a 10X concentration of cotinine through the kidneys, so with that in mind, there may be a discrepancy of +/- factor of 5, between the two tests. If your statement is right, either one could be 20-100 ng/ml off, correct? It would be an infinitesmal amount "ng" wise.
Is that on track, or no. I'm going back to re-read both of those PDF's again, I see what you are saying, makes more sense to me now that I see your point.
If so, I will re-edit these readings again!! Do not want any wrong statements. You probably are right, sir! You can give me the Pervy if I'm wrong! Thanks! I hate those PDF's because they're not editable, have to copy things by hand. I can't even copy them to my Adobe9 in editable form, I need a real PDF program.
NOTE: Here is the reference I used: Saliva vs. Urine Cotinine Testing With TobacAlert There is no fixed ratio of nicotine exposure when comparing urine to saliva readings So, am assuming that means the readings will stand as the test indicated levels. It's when we convert the readings with Plasma values that the correlations are skewed. MO, what do you think Tom09? Or, does that mean that BOTH tests have to be converted to Plasma values>and then compared. You say. Please say it isn't so!!
Last edited:
Sorry, I honestly dont know for sure. Nymox product information is not very comprehensive. Ive only seen a transformation table (levels to cotinine range) specific for their urine test set. Wed know if you could find a transformation table (levels to cotinine range) specific for their salvia test set, too. My present understanding, as above: levels 0-6 are the same for salvia and urine test strips (e.g. upper limit of level 2 / lower limit of level 3 discriminates between non-smoker and smoker). Both strips have to differ in the cotinine concentrations detected from different body fluids. I'd expect each test to give a concentration related to the respective fluid. But only Nymox knows what Nymox does.
I gave you this one, right? Saliva vs. Urine Cotinine Testing With TobacAlert
I have to confess, because it's the simplest, I think I can assume my two tests correlate correctly with each other. It's when we have to compare with plasma testing that the cotinine levels differ from Plasma/saliva or Plasma/urine. At any rate, because of the tiny values of measurement, the difference would not be vastly important with saliva/urine. Do I get
or The measurements between each number value in both tests is identical. Anyway, thanks so much again for all your help, this is enough to explode my head. Good thing I got out of that "cigarette fog" I've been walking around in the last few years. Or, have I?? Scary thought.
Last edited:
Holey Moley! I think they must be interested in you!! You may be surprised at how low your absorbtion level is, though. We'll hope so anyway. Will be fun to know. THANKS! By the way, be sure to tell them about the Ruyan testing, New Zealand, they have allowed e-cigs and endorsed them!! Here's a link, a video to watch, the Doctor's name is Laugeson, and let them know that this has been thoroughly tested at Aukland University and is published. New testing coming out soon, has to be published first to be released.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/29345-new-zealand-news-report.html
Last edited:
Hi Kate, I did not get this one (got your Nymox inquiry email with file "Salvia vs Plasma"), but have found it the meanwhile (and attached the table below)
. (1.) So, the NicAlert test strip gives a proxy for cotinine concentration, no matter which fluid, indeed. Strip is designed such that concentration is the same, not the exposure level. I was wrong and stand corrected. (2.) The ratio between cotinine in urine vs cotinine in salvia at one time is well reflected by the different levels discriminating user vs. non-user in that table, too. Which leads to the discrepancy I pointed out some posts above. However, both samples were taken at different times, your personal ratio may not exactly correspond to some theoretic valu, whatever. No need for digging in the noise.
Attachments
If I remember right Saliva vs. Urine report was one I had gotten before, I should have included that with the two very confused ones I sent. It seemed a little more straightforward, so went with it. I do think though the two samplings differ in theory the tweaks come in when comparing to plasma. That makes sense to me anyway. The two tests are still IMO too low ranged to be a significant help to a high nic user or PV + smoker, will be maxed out and I wonder if a home test would be accurate beyond low level testing. The original tests are better than a yes/no test, but right now these seem to be the only ones on the market. Happily reported having trouble with Doctors who didn't really know what he was asking for. For a country so consumed on anti-smoking they don't seem to want to realize that all smokers can't use the same stop smoking methods. So it's quit with Pharma's poor SRT's or cold turkey. Pharma knows they are not effective, but as long as they make money I don't think they have much concern. I wish I was in a better position to let people know the e-cig is the answer for so many. But it's still up to the user, stop or go a safer way, at least. Cold turkey would have put me at very high risk of failure. And total misery the whole time.
Thanks for all your help!!
Thanks for all your help!!
Please keep this testing going.
I have been vaping since very nearly this time last year. I have Hypertension (amongs other things) and the only thing i know is that since i stopped smoking my BP has gone down and my Doctor has CUT DOWN my Medication as he say's i don't need as much now.
I was smoking 40 a day of strong Cigs for about 40 years and quit on the very first day i got my first PV.
So i've been a guinea pig for almost a year and i'm still alive Damn it.
I have been vaping since very nearly this time last year. I have Hypertension (amongs other things) and the only thing i know is that since i stopped smoking my BP has gone down and my Doctor has CUT DOWN my Medication as he say's i don't need as much now.
I was smoking 40 a day of strong Cigs for about 40 years and quit on the very first day i got my first PV.
So i've been a guinea pig for almost a year and i'm still alive Damn it.
It's amazing to see your banner, that is so great! Yes, I am happy too....not only beat the cigarettes, but beat the meat wagon as well. I could not breath anymore. I kept it sort of hidden from everybody, but I could't carry out the garbage without having to stop and get my breath back. Our mailbox is 20 feet from the front door, and that was too far. I was totally in misery with allergies, bronchitis, ever infected sinuses, dark circles, sleeplessness, couldn't think anymore, the whole bit. Just dragging myself. Not quite 5 months, I'm like a born-again person. All of that is gone! Everyone is amazed at what I did, even though I didn't "quit", so to speak. Now I'm down to 18mg/ml juice, just the beginning. I needed to test my nicotine intake and compare it with a "smoker's" number, just for my own peace of mind, I already knew it was a lot lower than a 2-3 pack a day habit. I was right, and wanted to share that. There are more tests that will be coming in.
- Status
Similar threads
