Home testing of e-liquid strength (DIY)
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The perfumers apprentice.
I should have time tomorrow, a few checks. Bit of nic, flavoring, filler, see what happens.
I should have time tomorrow, a few checks. Bit of nic, flavoring, filler, see what happens.
Here's a new video which explains the process clearly and with good close-ups demonstrating the titration :
I checked four tpa flavors. It looks like strawberry, banana cream and vanilla bean ice cream can significantly skew results, only bavarian cream tested neutral. With my flavor concentrations I was getting results of > 20% below what I knew the nic level to be.
I used the scale, which I find easier to work with overall. Checked my pg nic base and got consistent results. Used 1ml nic base (based on weighing 10ml of it to get a density), 0.3g of a flavor, 4 drops bb, and added distilled water to 3.5 - 4ml. Measured weight, then added the acid until the color changed to yellow. Weighed again and converted the mg to ml to an mg/ml.
Tpa has pretty popular, quality, flavorings. Anyone trying to do a simple nic test may well get low readings on final eliquid containing the flavorings I looked at tonight. This is consistent with Kurt and the other chemists warning that the test has limitations, should only be used on clean, unmodified nic base.
I'll be curious if anyone else gets similar results.
Fun stuff
I used the scale, which I find easier to work with overall. Checked my pg nic base and got consistent results. Used 1ml nic base (based on weighing 10ml of it to get a density), 0.3g of a flavor, 4 drops bb, and added distilled water to 3.5 - 4ml. Measured weight, then added the acid until the color changed to yellow. Weighed again and converted the mg to ml to an mg/ml.
Tpa has pretty popular, quality, flavorings. Anyone trying to do a simple nic test may well get low readings on final eliquid containing the flavorings I looked at tonight. This is consistent with Kurt and the other chemists warning that the test has limitations, should only be used on clean, unmodified nic base.
I'll be curious if anyone else gets similar results.
Fun stuff
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I got the test kit from eliquidtest.com today and thought I would share the results. 48mg Box Elder nic from Gourmet Vapor tested at 47mg. I have some peace of mind.
This thread is to create a list of vendor/flavors that are unsuitable for vaping (added acids are not a good idea; pure flavors/aromas would have only a slight effect, probably undetectable at 2 sig fig.s, not 20%).
Yes, the test has limitations - that's life - but that doesn't mean it is of no use; the thing is to know the limitations in more detail. If you are going to say that it "should only be used for' then you're better off sticking to the other thread.
Some strawberry flavorings will be non-acidified. The creams probably contain fatty acids and could be neutralised by esterification with alcohol. But do we really want to be vaping things like non-vapable acids and fatty acids?
Most of these flavorings - and that includes those used in commercial e-liquids - are really designed for food, where these things don't matter.
So I think we have now a second use for the test - to discover flavorings that really shouldn't be used in vaping.
These test-skewing flavorings will be the one's that shorten atomizer/carto life. And they do so because they contain things that do not vaporise. Instead they decompose on and around the heater coil.
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Perhaps a better way to say it is "need to understand how the flavorings may change the results"?
Strawberry seemed to have the greatest difference. As a flavoring it is one that I've thought was pretty strong, I use less of it in a given mix than other flavorings.
Strawberry seemed to have the greatest difference. As a flavoring it is one that I've thought was pretty strong, I use less of it in a given mix than other flavorings.
It's good to know one can easily check
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Despite some people saying that BE might be the tip of the iceberg, etc. I think it is rare and the great majority of vendors are conscientious. But even they might slipup once in a blue moon. The thing is that there are now more test kits out there than vendors - many times more - so if an issue arises it will be detected very quickly. That's a great thing.
Vendors should also test, but even more important for them is to make sure they have the right processes in place to minimise the chances for error. Testing should just be to verify that the processes are working and not be thought the be and end of QC; QA is key.
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The strawberry I have is non acidic at all. Can't find it atm but pretty sure it's an artificial flavor. I guess I'll have to make time to track down those chemicals and do some testing myself too.
Looking up some stuff .. may add here later.
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http://www.feingold.org/strawberry.html
A loooong list ! I thought it would be just a few things, but I guess this is a list of possible constituents rather than a typical composition. Can see some oils and diacetyl. No significant acidic content though. After all in say a milkshake one wouldn't want to curdle the milk (which suggests to me an interesting test). Hence I suspect that some strawberry flavorings have added citric acid beyond the aroma compnents.
If I get around to it ne day I might see wat various flavorings do to a drop of milk, and their gross pH.
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I tested both Flavorshacks's strawberry, and also banana. No effects on the results what so ever. I also tested TPA's Cotton Candy (Etho Malto/sweeter), and that had not effects on the results. I have close to 40 flavorings from TPA I use in my DIY. After the holiday, (I got family in town) I plan on testing as much of the flavors as possible to see what test low/i.e. has acids, .i.e not suitable for vaping. I do have thier sweet orange, which says it contains real orange/citric acid, so I'm curious on that.... hmmm... let me test it now..........wooow ,no effect. When I made this DIY a while ago (I wasn't a fan on the strong citric taste, so its just been sitting here un used) I was trying to make between 10-12mg strength. It just tested to 10mg exactly.... wooow so I was right on my DIY a couple months ago, and it tested just fine now. kewl beans..
I just wanted to make a note on the test. Take flavoring out of the picture, and the margin of error, I feels comes from the measuring to the 0.1 decimal place. So thats what I tihnk the test can be off by +/-2 to 4 mg. But this is 2-4mg reguardless of the strength. So if your testing 100mg, your only off by 2-4%. But if your testing 12mg, 2-4mg can equate to 20%-40% off. Thats why I don't think a percentage standard margin of error should be used, because it varries. Where 2-4mg does not varry, reguardless of the strength of nic. But this IMHO...
Markf, what was the strength of the DIY? 18? 12? Since its DIY, its prolly lower, so %'s will be higher if you off by the standard variable of 2-4mg. In my lower strength DIY's I use a minimum of 3ml of test liquid because it lowers the margin of error which is needed in low strength eliquids. (of course that tripples the amount of acid/blue I use) Using testing a batch of 3ml, reduces my margin of error to +/-0.5-1mg
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Good to hear and look forward to more results.
Have a good holiday and well done with that video
Interesting that pretty much all (all?) the TW flavored e-liquids tested fine. But I have the impression they would go the extra mile to get something like this right.
1ml of 60mg/ml pg60 nic base, about 0.3ml of a given flavoring, 4 drops of bb, and a couple of ml of distilled water were used each time, total liquid volume was 3.8 - 4ml each time, after mixing and before adding acid.
I'm pretty comfortable that I had an accurate volume of the nic base; as 10 ml of it weighed 10.4g, I added 1.04g to the empty, clean, dry, cylinder, and did an eyeball. The small scale has a nominal accuracy of .02g, I find it simpler to weigh things as I add drops than to keep trying to eyeball the meniscus.
The variability in total volume prior to adding acid, which was due to variance in the quantity of distilled water, should be acceptable, as I weighed the solution prior to adding the acid, and then again at the end. I converted the acid weight to ml based on the acid density, determined by having weighed 10ml of it.
Hopefully this represents an acceptable adjustment to using the kit. It helps minimize the eyeball estimate error in reading the meniscus by reading the meniscus on 10ml volumes rather than on smaller amounts.
I did checks on just the pg nic base, no flavorings, just distilled water added, at the start and near the end of the series, to seek consistency on when I would call the change in color complete. Ideal case would be that I would also do multiple checks on each flavor; I only did that on the strawberry, a second test, results came out close enough.
The bavarian cream, the one that seemed to be neutral, was done in the middle of the set of flavors. I had no a priori expectation on whether it would be neutral vs acidic, and since to the best of my knowledge I called the color change no differently than for the flavorings that seemed to be acidic, it gives me a degree of comfort that the ones I tested as acidic probably really are.
I'd like to see if others try things and get the same, or different, results. The final change point is subjective, others may well have better color discrimination than me.
I'm pretty comfortable that I had an accurate volume of the nic base; as 10 ml of it weighed 10.4g, I added 1.04g to the empty, clean, dry, cylinder, and did an eyeball. The small scale has a nominal accuracy of .02g, I find it simpler to weigh things as I add drops than to keep trying to eyeball the meniscus.
The variability in total volume prior to adding acid, which was due to variance in the quantity of distilled water, should be acceptable, as I weighed the solution prior to adding the acid, and then again at the end. I converted the acid weight to ml based on the acid density, determined by having weighed 10ml of it.
Hopefully this represents an acceptable adjustment to using the kit. It helps minimize the eyeball estimate error in reading the meniscus by reading the meniscus on 10ml volumes rather than on smaller amounts.
I did checks on just the pg nic base, no flavorings, just distilled water added, at the start and near the end of the series, to seek consistency on when I would call the change in color complete. Ideal case would be that I would also do multiple checks on each flavor; I only did that on the strawberry, a second test, results came out close enough.
The bavarian cream, the one that seemed to be neutral, was done in the middle of the set of flavors. I had no a priori expectation on whether it would be neutral vs acidic, and since to the best of my knowledge I called the color change no differently than for the flavorings that seemed to be acidic, it gives me a degree of comfort that the ones I tested as acidic probably really are.
I'd like to see if others try things and get the same, or different, results. The final change point is subjective, others may well have better color discrimination than me.
I can apreciate the color change is not the easiest to get exactly right - but would be easier in daylight. Maybe try with 6-8 drops of BB?
@markf. I’m not doubting your skills or your technique at all. Actually, I think your technique is more accurate than measuring the volume method. All I’m merely saying, is I think results should be ‘off’ or ‘accurate to’ a mg number, not a percentage. Because of how the test works, one is measuring something. Either be it by volume or weight. And there is always a margin of error when someone measures something. Since the final result will be off by a mathematically calculated number, and that number has no direct coloration to the unknown variable, i.e. the nic strength, saying it is off by a percentage, without also stating the unknown variable, i.e nic strength, can be misleading.
Case in point, if you test 12mg nic, and the test results are 10mg, you CAN say at ‘12mg, the test is off by ~20%’. But you CAN’T say all test procedures will be off by 20%. That means if you are testing 100mg, it will test to 80mg, which is a big deal in my eyes. I have tested samples of 100mg, and many other people tested 100mg, and all the feedback I got was they tested it from 96 to 104mg. Within the 2-4mg margin of error.
I just like if people say the results are off by a mg number, and not a percentage, UNLESS the percentage is followed by the resulting number. Because a percentage with out the known number can be 1mg or 20mg, all depending on the resulting number. That’s all………
This all refering to your statement of, 'strawberry will throw off your results by 20%'........ 20% at what level? 10mg or 50mg. I would think if you test the same starwberry flavoring at twice as powerfull nic eliquid, they will only be off by 10%.... I'm predicting..
....of course this post IMHO.
EDIT...Add.. Because if you think about it, you are using the same amount of flavoring, in the same amount of eliquid, but the strength of nicotine (i.e. a base) is increased. So the acids in the flavoring cannot decrease the PH of the base as much, when there is more of it. So the % will always change depdning on the stregnth of nicotine.
Case in point, if you test 12mg nic, and the test results are 10mg, you CAN say at ‘12mg, the test is off by ~20%’. But you CAN’T say all test procedures will be off by 20%. That means if you are testing 100mg, it will test to 80mg, which is a big deal in my eyes. I have tested samples of 100mg, and many other people tested 100mg, and all the feedback I got was they tested it from 96 to 104mg. Within the 2-4mg margin of error.
I just like if people say the results are off by a mg number, and not a percentage, UNLESS the percentage is followed by the resulting number. Because a percentage with out the known number can be 1mg or 20mg, all depending on the resulting number. That’s all………
This all refering to your statement of, 'strawberry will throw off your results by 20%'........ 20% at what level? 10mg or 50mg. I would think if you test the same starwberry flavoring at twice as powerfull nic eliquid, they will only be off by 10%.... I'm predicting..
....of course this post IMHO.
EDIT...Add.. Because if you think about it, you are using the same amount of flavoring, in the same amount of eliquid, but the strength of nicotine (i.e. a base) is increased. So the acids in the flavoring cannot decrease the PH of the base as much, when there is more of it. So the % will always change depdning on the stregnth of nicotine.
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I was trying to see which of the four flavorings I use in a certain blend could lead to a reading of 12mg instead of the 15mg/ml that it was made at. This is a high flavor mix, 22% total, 4-4-8-6% of the different flavors.
It turns out that three of the four have properties that would sway a result. They constituted 18% of the eliquid.
In looking at the flavors individually, I used fairly high concentrations, so there was 1ml of the pg60, 0.3g (near ml of 0.3ml) of the flavoring under test.
I wasn't looking for a precise mg delta, but rather just a significant change relative to the known starting 1ml of pg60. Looks like I found it
It turns out that three of the four have properties that would sway a result. They constituted 18% of the eliquid.
In looking at the flavors individually, I used fairly high concentrations, so there was 1ml of the pg60, 0.3g (near ml of 0.3ml) of the flavoring under test.
I wasn't looking for a precise mg delta, but rather just a significant change relative to the known starting 1ml of pg60. Looks like I found it
I wasn't looking for a precise mg delta, but rather just a significant change relative to the known starting 1ml of pg60. Looks like I found it
oh ok, so its sways the results about 20% on a 60mg test base. I must of mised the 60mg test base on your first post, my fault.
No problem, I wasn't sure which of the flavors were acidic (i expected strawberry, banana cream was at lest moderately likely, no clue on vbic or bc).
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