Think I'm going to give up trying with these types of cartos. I thought that they would work better in a punched carto, because they would get continual juice feed at the bottom, but I either burn them or get a bad taste from them. I've tried two different brands and they're just not working for me the way that I thought they would. Heat production is out of this world, but I need a good taste on them. I know that other people are getting superb results from them, so if you have any tips I would appreciate hearing about them. The closest description that I can describe to the bad taste is something bitter like tree sap. I think I'll stick with boge and smoktech cartos for now though.