How are clones allowed?
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forget the e-cig, what happened to the automatic tree farmer? now that's a neat invention(probably been cloned by now).......
I can see a reason other than your two. If you are living on VA disability pay like I am and can barely afford to live buying a $100+ atty is just not possible. That's something a lot of people don't seem to take into account when they jump on their soap boxes.
Maybe you should have to save up for it so the person who designed it doesn't have to pay out to patent his design.
100% this. It's just that simple. The Chinese don't give a {MODERATED} about intellectual property. Every heard of fake Coach, Gucci, Dolce & Gabanna, Rayban, etc.? Guess who makes all that trash. The Chinese.
They even make fake 'name brand' cars.
On the flip side, there's nothing wrong with clones of mods. The legit mod makers can't keep up with demand so the clones fill in the void. It doesn't hurt the OG mod makers at all because they sell every single unit they make.
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Maybe you could buy two to offset the profit loss. Why do people buy genisis attys other thanthe first one released? Thats a stolen idea but no one seems to mind there. Same for anything produced. Again, that entitled attitude rears its ugly head.
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Manufacturing something (albeit at a lesser quality, at least at first) and selling it for less money is the reason you have a car in your driveway. It's the reason you're typing on a computer. It's the reason you can re-heat your lunch in a microwave, and the reason you have electric light bulbs in your house.
If no one recreates new and fancy "technology" (of which ecig mods are NOT, it's just a ....ing tube with a battery) technology does not advance. This is LITERALLY WHY WE LIVE IN THE SOCIETY WE DO.
If no one recreates new and fancy "technology" (of which ecig mods are NOT, it's just a ....ing tube with a battery) technology does not advance. This is LITERALLY WHY WE LIVE IN THE SOCIETY WE DO.
Every time...and I mean every time I've seen the title of this thread, I've read it "Why are clowns allowed?" Of course I'm thinking, "Why indeed! Totally agree! Those things are scarier than h*ll!"
Then I realize it says "clones"...
This is obviously a problem of way too little daily coffee.
Then I realize it says "clones"...
This is obviously a problem of way too little daily coffee.
Clowns have feelings too. 
So do cloned ecigs. It's not their fault someone made them like that.
I believe cloned ecigs should have the same rights as their original counterpart.
Calling them clones is not PC. They like to simply be called Ecigs or PV or battery holders.
Sorry too much coffee! Lol
So do cloned ecigs. It's not their fault someone made them like that.
I believe cloned ecigs should have the same rights as their original counterpart.
Calling them clones is not PC. They like to simply be called Ecigs or PV or battery holders.
Sorry too much coffee! Lol
I have no issue with clones, particularly good ones. Perhaps copying logos and serial numbers may be crossing the line, but for those of us who are poor and cannot afford to spend $200 on what is essentially a metallic tube with a button and 510 connection on top, clones make vaping more accessible to more people.
Stop and think about what your saying for a moment. If ideas and knowledge where finite, tanglble property then every time a car was designed, someone would need to reinvent the wheel. That is not an exaggeration.
One of the reasons this industry has exploded with constantly changing (usually improving) designs and concepts is that it hasn't been burdoned with lengthy legal battles that amount to little more than "he who has the deepest pockets, wins". 70% of court cases are over patents. A new startup can be sued out of business, even with a lawsuit tossed out in the end as "fivolous", before they can get going - and for some companies, it's a way of doing business that eliminates the competition. It's a mess. And that is what you'd like to see emulated within the ecig industry? You'll probably get your way since I have a hunch that's part of the push for BT and BP to reign in the marketplace using legislative and regulatory controls.
Recently (this month) a company by the name of Imperial purchased (I'm sketchy on the details) the first ecig maker - and holder of the patent for the 510 connection. The original company did not pursue violations of their patent, but Imperial has a history of defending it's patents. Picture that. Every single ecig using a 510 connection could be hauled into court for violating that patent. Some small manufacturers will likely go out of business. It has happened before.
What would the ecig market look like if everytime one was designed, they also had to design everything from scratch? No 510 connections, switches, clicky buttons, screens, on an on.
It's really the concept that information, knowledge and ideas are NOT available for all to use is the NEW idea that's being pushed, and sold to us. Not the reverse. There is a market for high end mods that do research and development and a market for lower end mods - however, with 90% of all manufacturing coming from China, the ecig market has largely been evolved from what used to be considered "low end". It appears they do their share of research and development too, including Sigelei.
The design asthetics of the ZMax were clearly modeled after Provari, but ZMax's internals were completely different (vv/vw, OLED, etc). Did it hurt Provari? Probably not. Yet the ZMax did give Provari some competition, and Provari responded by changing their design. I personally think that's healthy. People who are attracted to Provari features continued to buy them and people attracted to ZMax probably got a slightly better device by attempting to emulate the Provari. Sigelei probably created another class of buyers who were attracted to both and due to "cloning", many were able to purchase both.
Do you honestly think buying mechanical clones are hurting the business of expensive mods they are cloning? Look at how many own $20 mechanicals. Would they own any if they had to pay $200+ for the original Phillipine version? However I bet a fair share introduced to mechanicals through the $20 clone version, will end up wishing or actually buying the more expensive original at some point in time that they would have never been exposed to without the clone.
Patents, trademarks, copyrights have a place but for the most part they are an EXCEPTION and not a "right". None of these clones are attempting to defraud the public into thinking they are the original item (usually). Clearly those that are "faking" it, claiming to be the original when they aren't is wrong - but that's not the typical clone.
There are also some cultural differences involved between traditional US manufacturing (which has gone the way of the dinasaur) and Chinese manufacturer. One is extinct and the other is thriving. Which one is more adaptable to the 21st century? Chinese factories are rented out by the day. If you scan Alibaba there are a lot of shared factory addresses and multiple factories are authentic "Siegeli" or "SMOK-TECH" or "Siegeli/SMOK" manufacturers. It's possible for a company to rent a factory after a "Siegeli" run has been made and use the same tooling, materials to produce a clone under a different name. Sometimes workmanship is better and sometimes it is worse. But for us in the US who are familar with all items being produced in a single plant and only that one plant, it is very confusing. Companies like Vision buy from a multitude of different manufacturers - I think at one time I heard there were 12 plants making the Vision Nova, and there's a good chance there were more. Vision is actually more of what we think of as distributors - and I love my 1300mah Spinners.
Look at all the ego batteries. I think the industry would have been stagnated and harmed if Joyetech had pursued patents against all those. Everyone knows what's "real" an what isn't. Few are attempting fraud. If someone buys a Gucci bag off a street corner, do they really think they are getting a "genuine" bag? Yet the fact is that there have been tens of thousands introducd to vaping because of the availability of the $8 ego-like battery vs. the $40 geniune branded version and there's a good chance that $8 version has kept the geniune version from marking their product up even higher.
I'd hate to think of how much smaller the vaping community would be without access to cloning since cloning is one thing that has helped this industry evolve at the rapid pace it has. As it is, product shortages are still common place. If anything we don't have enough clones yet!
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The manufacturers "copying" US, Greek etc designs are catering to a market that does not belong to the high end manufacturers. The high end manufacturers will continue to sell their products, because people who have $200 to spend on a mod will spend it on a "fancy", US made one. The people who may WANT a "fancy" US made mod but cannot afford it, were never going to buy one in the first place. None of these high end PV manufacturers are losing business to China.
Yeah, that gave me a chuckle, too. All the passionate breast-beating about the "greed" and apparent lack of suavite and discrimination in the name of saving a buck...and all the passion about buying American...and the poster is re-selling his Chinese pieces.
I guess if you buy from China, but you're re-selling them for your own profit and you're an American, then...it's not greed and it's not supporting Chinese products.
Ummm, what?
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Right. And even if that weren't the case -- even if the high-ends mods weren't always selling out -- wouldn't that be the company's issue, not mine?
I am a consumer. My job is to research products and decide whether or not I want to pay a certain price for them (and whether or not I want them at all). My job is not to police who's duplicating what exact part on a specific product. That's the company's job, if the company cares.
Unless they're doing something bizarrely unethical, like creating mod parts out of dead kittens and having 4-year-olds assemble them for $.10 an 11-hour day, then it's really not my job to police who's "cloning" what part of what item (or the entire item). As much as we're hearing "boo hoo, too bad you don't feel you can afford $150," there's another "boo-hoo" here: Boo hoo, if you want to protect something that really is your own creation, you have to sink the money for the patent. And that's that. Can't afford all that? Well, nobody's twisting your arm and forcing you to sell anything at all.
If a company feels it's been treated unjustly, it's that company's job to do something about it, to pursue it in court, etc. That's part of the chance you take being a manufacturing company, AFAIK. That's why I personally wouldn't want to do it -- don't need the headaches. I'm sure nobody twisted these "artists'" arms and forced them to go into business using someone else's technology (yes, that's what they're doing...even "the artists"). Business = certain risks and certain legalities. Don't want to deal with those? Don't go into business.
It's not my personal requirement nor my passion in life to do the company's work for them. They can do their own work and protect their own interests. And if I see a different type of the same product that works well and isn't a fleece of my bank account based on a bunch of plastic, metal and/or glass, of course I'm going to buy it...but then again, I'm not an elitist snob.
Rather, I'm an intelligent shopper.ETA: I see a bit of talk on this thread about how these small companies "just can't afford" the patents. Maybe. On the other hand, what if they realize they can't patent technology and often, designs that they too "borrowed"?
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I personally could care less about the clones that dont steal the name and put serials on them. Its a different story when a company not only steals the design but literally puts "style of mojo" on the button and puts a serial on it. Then you literally may have copied a singular persons mod for one thing but in the least have stolen the makers mod outright. That said the clones that dont try to make an exact clone and just make rough copy of the design dont bother me. Youre never going to get the same quality with the cloned version, they are made of inferior materials and usually arnt a quality build. Unfortunatly though if someone really wants an original mod its impossible to buy it without stalking a site when and if you can catch it on sale, that or pay a premium for it second hand. Personally Id rather own the real deal, but who wouldnt, but Ive owned a dozen mods that based their design on a premium mod. To each his own but theres nothing like using a real high end mod vs the clone. Maybe if the clones where actually clones and not just something that copys the style crudely without the quality build. I mean really how much more would it cost to make the tubes ss instead of coated brass? Maybe a little thicker and heavier? Thats my 2 cents, buy whatever makes you happy except the clones that literally copy the serials and names (they just shouldnt exist) but you'll always know the difference
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