How are clones allowed?

[Eileithia]

China does not have the same sort of patent laws (or enforcement) as Western society (Americas / Europe). There are a number of Chinese companies (Multi-billion dollar ones) that knowingly break US Patents and sell their goods in Asia. They can't legally bring these products to the rest of the world as the law suits would start flying immediately, but they still do some very substantial sales numbers in Asia, so continue to manufacture these "knock-off" products for that market. As an example: Lenovo is one of the largest cellular device providers in Asia and has basically zero presence in this vertical market in the rest of the world. They fully admit the technology in their hand-held devices are stolen from other big-name manufacturers so they only sell product where it doesn't matter.

 

[crxess]

Using Ops Analogy
sigelei

Does anyone really believe any Sigelei is a clone? Look up Clone
These Devices are not even close as a Copy, not to mention an EXACT replication(clone)

Now, using logic
A low income person may Never have the reach or desire to spend on a High end piece. High production gives that customer a device they can enjoy at an affordable price, within their budgetary means. Maybe not the same quality, but compare make/models of cars.

Or are these constant attacks on low end mods an effort to Keep mods in the Hands of Rich elitist looking down on the rest of us?

Personally if you cannot tell the difference between a Roller and a Sigelei #20 - you should not be shopping.

And before anyone slams back - After the First Tube mod(a copy/modification of flashlights) All others could be considered copies.
Same with any Box mod or APV - only #1 is not in some way a copy.

 

[retired1]

Must be a full moon this week. The monthly "Woe is me! Why do they bash my beloved Provari" and "Bash the clone" threads have sprung up.

 

[VIPOD]

Ford Model T = Everything Else is a Clone




"You can Have Any Color as Long as It's Black," Henry Ford

Just put a skin on it!

 

[Glen Snyder]

Must be a full moon this week. The monthly "Woe is me! Why do they bash my beloved Provari" and "Bash the clone" threads have sprung up.

Nope, that was last week

 

[xan13x]

Using Ops Analogy
SIGELEI

Does anyone really believe any Sigelei is a clone? Look up Clone
These Devices are not even close as a Copy, not to mention an EXACT replication(clone)

Now, using logic
A low income person may Never have the reach or desire to spend on a High end piece. High production gives that customer a device they can enjoy at an affordable price, within their budgetary means. Maybe not the same quality, but compare make/models of cars.

Or are these constant attacks on low end mods an effort to Keep mods in the Hands of Rich elitist looking down on the rest of us?

Personally if you cannot tell the difference between a Roller and a Sigelei #20 - you should not be shopping.

And before anyone slams back - After the First Tube mod(a copy/modification of flashlights) All others could be considered copies.
Same with any Box mod or APV - only #1 is not in some way a copy.

Let's go paragraph by paragraph, skipping the sigelei...

Use logic? You didn't use any in this whole paragraph. Comparing various price cars is apple to oranges. When someone introduces a mass produced "farari" we can talk, but comparing an odysseus to its clone is in no way similar to comparing a kia to a lamborghini.

Same logic works on this one. Should someone make "farari" for the poor downtrodden souls who can't enjoy a Ferrari? Also, 200 bucks on the very Hugh end is attainable for just about anyone not living in squalor in a 3rd world country. Might some have to save for a few months? Sure, nothing wrong with that.

Again, you are missing the definition of "copy". Something that is functionally similar is not a copy. A galaxy phone and iPhone are not copies of each other. Now, when someone comes out with a piece of equipment, and someone else buys one and fabricates something based solely on that design, that is a copy.

 

[mightymen]

Must be a full moon this week. The monthly "Woe is me! Why do they bash my beloved Provari" and "Bash the clone" threads have sprung up.

It's called envy!

 

[Signal30]

China knows no copyright or patents.

 

[retired1]

It's called envy!

I call it beating a dead horse to a quivering pulp of unrecognizable flesh.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Clones are great. Right now, I'm writing this on my Opple computer but I have it rigged to run Windoors 8. It works nearly as well as my iPhune. Later on I'll take my Morcedes Bendz over to Starbooks for a cup of joe. The great thing is everything I've listed only cost me 800 bucks so I saved enough money to buy a Karabella with a genuine Det. Dave's Steem Turbine atomizer and some Bluid to vape!

 

[xan13x]

I call it beating a dead horse to a quivering pulp of unrecognizable flesh.

Ehh I argue for a living ;p nothing wrong with spirited discussion on issues. There are daily new folks on here who may never see the old debates otherwise. Also, if you are so tired of it, why click and respond to a thread titled "how are clones allowed?" if you don't want to discuss how clones are allowed?

 

[sychodelix]

It's funny that the Kanger Pro Tank came out with lots of issues. The clones ended up fixing those issues and improving on it, long before Kanger did. It's usually not the case, but if there is a market for a clone, it will sell. Simple as supply and demand. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

[crxess]

Let's go paragraph by paragraph, skipping the sigelei...

Use logic? You didn't use any in this whole paragraph. Comparing various price cars is apple to oranges. When someone introduces a mass produced "farari" we can talk, but comparing an odysseus to its clone is in no way similar to comparing a kia to a lamborghini.

Same logic works on this one. Should someone make "farari" for the poor downtrodden souls who can't enjoy a Ferrari? Also, 200 bucks on the very Hugh end is attainable for just about anyone not living in squalor in a 3rd world country. Might some have to save for a few months? Sure, nothing wrong with that.

Again, you are missing the definition of "copy". Something that is functionally similar is not a copy. A galaxy phone and iPhone are not copies of each other. Now, when someone comes out with a piece of equipment, and someone else buys one and fabricates something based solely on that design, that is a copy.

When I was younger, had my own business and thought I had the world By the Bag, I thought along the same lines. Now that I am in a position where it is hard to see the light at the top of the well, I know better.

My way of expressing what I know and feel may not suit your satisfaction, but I know what I meant.

Thank you for casting myself and others into 3rd world classification. If you are not financially there, you truly have no clue.

Maybe there are a few of what you classify as copies around, but from what I have seen and own, most are iPhone to Galaxy mechanically speaking. while both have similar physical form they are considerably different.

i.e. GGTS vs CCTS - everyone screaming Clone
Not even a copy much less a clone

Roller vs Sigelei #20
Again barely similar in look but nothing alike in construction
Not a clone or much of a copy

Never the less, you have yours and I have mine. Back to my 12hr days Blue collar and giving all excess earnings to Uncle Sam.(reality check)

Later

 

[Glen Snyder]

It's funny that the Kanger Pro Tank came out with lots of issues. The clones ended up fixing those issues and improving on it, long before Kanger did. It's usually not the case, but if there is a market for a clone, it will sell. Simple as supply and demand. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

I'm afraid you don't understand the logistics of manufacturing. "Those other companies" had a huge head start in improving on the original. You can't tool for xxx number of units based on making a product profitable and just stop production and retool as the user responds to perceived deficiencies. You have committed to that xxx number of units and barring some catastrophic failure rate you have to follow through on it. The 'cloners' you refer to had the luxury of taking input from the end user of a product already in the marketplace during their R & D phase.

Additionally I think your example is a rather poor one considering the HUGE success of the Protank. Each run quickly sold out causing resellers and retailers alike to scramble to provide product to the end consumer. In manufacturing that's a win.

As always none of what I'm saying is meant to offend, it's just my opinion based on my personal experience.


Edit: Another thought on this one and it may not be wildly popular. I find it pretty amazing that Kanger responded as quickly as they did. They actually had the Protank 2 in production and premarketed within weeks of the competition that had all that extra lead time.

This is the part that may be distasteful to some. You'd be hard pressed to find a US manufacturer that responded to the consumer in the time frame Kangertech did with the Protank 2. There are some good reasons for this, the biggest being that Chinese manufacturers aren't dealing with labor costs anywhere near in the ballpark of a US manufacturer. Another is China's economic commitment to manufacturing for a global market. No matter what side of the fence you stand on, they do a bang up job knocking out product and distributing it on demand.

 

[Ref Minor]

Must be a full moon this week. The monthly "Woe is me! Why do they bash my beloved Provari" and "Bash the clone" threads have sprung up.

It's called envy!

If they are envious of people without Provaris and with clones why don't they sell the Provari and buy some clones and stop whining?

 

[peterforpats]

There's a lot of clones of more expensive stuff out there now. Most of them are obviously stolen ideas. My question is, how do they get away with this? Aren't any of these devices patented? Sigeli is doing A LOT of clones now which is why I don't like them. It'd be nice if they game up with their own ideas. I know the creators of these high end devices are completely against clones, but why don't they do anything about it?

don't know where to begin
1. have you seen or used a sigelei telescoping zmax flattop? if it' s a clone tell me the original it clones so I can buy it
because as good as my zmax as been for 6 months the original must be unbelievable!
2. most are just tubes of metal with a battery (and maybe some electronics) how different can they be and still serve their intended purpose? what brand of t-shirts do you buy and how different are they? i'm pretty sure each has two arm holes and a hole for your head- why do they all make the same design?
3. you don't like sigelei because they make decent products at a reasonable price that look like a more expensive product? do you drive a Lexus or Mercedes or do you drive a ford or chevy? with CAD all car manufacturers are making cars that all look alike except for minor details and and price. why would you ever buy the less expensive "clone" automobile?
4. the one thing I've noticed about really high end mods besides the price is that most of the time you can't buy them- they are usually "out of stock". so some enterprising manufacturer comes along and makes a reasonable "look-a-like" that works and sells to the masses that want them and you don't like it? that is called business and I am grateful you are not in charge because I like nice things that work and not just expensive "originals" that I can't buy.

 

[vapero]

you could always patent a new technology as say wire rope use or the bottom feeding atomizers before you get them out into the works just wait a bit until you have all the paperwork done before selling it, if not well you know what will happen. as for design it is almost impossible to patent, for example someone comes up wit a tube mod exactly as yours but adds a small design line marking now it's not the same...

 

[peterforpats]

Ford Model T = Everything Else is a Clone

View attachment 237153


"You can Have Any Color as Long as It's Black," Henry Ford

Just put a skin on it!

sorry, ford only figured a way to manufacture on an assembly line to mass produce- he cloned the actual car from someone else.

 

[dw'struth]

"I see no reason to buy a clone....."

Wow, someone has no idea how the "other half" lives, huh. lol

 

[fourtytwo]

I am assuming that, if any actual patents exist, they would be for the original technology for e-cigarettes. Those would be owned by the Chinese inventor.
How many of the high end makers of these devices would even exist if they respected the intellectual property rights and actually paid the inventor????