How do You make your Ethyl Malto solutions?

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Hi there,

I've read some threads on this forums were certain members said they tended to make super saturated solutions of menthol and described the processes by "filling up the container halfway with crushed up menthol crystals, adding PG/VG/PGA until full, and when they used it they would warm in a water bath and then "add to taste".

I've been doing that lately and enjoy the method.

I wish to learn of a similar method for EM.

Does anyone make super saturated solutions of EM to "add to taste" or do most people stick to a 10% solution like the manufacturers do? How do you make your solutions? Would half and half (EM and PG) work well?
 

Lyndagayle

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I super saturate mine until it reaches the point of just a few crystals forming on the bottom after a couple of days. I've never done an accurate measure but guess it at 1/3 or a little more of the size bottle you're making it in. I think it has a better flavor that way and I don't have to use as much at that concentration.
 
I super saturate mine until it reaches the point of just a few crystals forming on the bottom after a couple of days. I've never done an accurate measure but guess it at 1/3 or a little more of the size bottle you're making it in. I think it has a better flavor that way and I don't have to use as much at that concentration.

So you fill up a bottle roughly 1/3 with EM and fill the rest with PG?
 
yup^ I do the same thing. I fill it roughly 1/3-1/2 with EM and get it to mostly dissolve. That way it will be 100% saturated and I will have to use less of it.

Ok so I just put 1/3 EM in a container and filled it up with PG. I put it in a warm water bath and have shaken the hell out of it, but It does not look clear.

When I put 1/2 menthol crystals in the container and fill it up with PG, the warm water bath alone (no shaking required) will dissolve everything.

With my EM solution, after I do the warm water bath and shake it up, I get the proper suspension, but it has not dissolved. Do you get the same thing? Are you using the warm water bath to get this suspension? Do you just use a few drops of this suspension?

Thanks!
 
Heat your water to the boiling point and set your EM solution in it for a good 15 minutes or so and then shake, shake, shake and repeat. It takes some work but it will get there.

I have small plastic bottles for my DIY tasks. Will placing one in boiling water for 15 minutes cause harm? Should I find a glass container instead?
 

eikon

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Call me a freak, but, I have a little thing for repeatable results. 1/4 tsp of EM dissolved in 10ml of carrier will be different every time, as crystal sizes very. 1 gram of EM Crystals dissolved in 10ml of carrier (I use PG) will give you a 10% (weight by volume) solution every single time. If you have 3.125 grams of EM on hand, and dissolve it in 31.25ml of PG you still have a 10% solution.

The water does not need to be boiling, just really fracking hot. The soft milky translucent HDPE bottles can handle this, the glass clear PET bottles can not. Still, glass is the best thing for your all your DIY Testing, Mixing, and Storage needs. And as a bonus, glass does not absorb flavors (trust me, from experience, no matter how much you wash that plastic bottle you will NEVER get rid of the taste of utter failure).

I use the same 1gr/10ml for Ethyl Vanillin, Citric Acid, Malic Acid, and Caffeine (in PGA). For some reason like my Menthol concentrate at 5 grams Crystal to 8ml PG (I hear 5gr/5ml works, I need to give that a shot, easier math....)

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I'm not disparaging those that like the add to taste methods, that's how I cook. For some reason I kinda got .... about measurement in my juice. Oddly one of the only aspects of my life where I actually keep records....
<!--EDIT-->
 
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DuaneNeveu

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I have to agree with a lot of what eikon said!

Like it or not, what we're doing is chemistry. Creating a soluble solution is an exact science, and given the nature of crystals, using them by weight is more readily appropriate to duplicate a solution. I'm not trying to spew my results in every single thread I find regarding Ethyl Maltol, and I'm not criticizing anyone. I'm just trying to be helpful, truly...and to that end, it bears repeating:

Given what I've discovered about Ethyl Maltol, I have to conclude that the conventional wisdom of a quarter teaspoon to 10ml of Propylene Glycol is more than is advisable, and that using teaspoons as a measurement will greatly hinder consistency from one solution to another.

I've found two sources that state 1 gram (~0.20 teaspoons) of EM is soluble in 17ml of PG (or ~a quarter teaspoon is soluble in 21.25ml of PG) - but remember, weight is best to use instead of teaspoons:

It's important to note, that dissolution and solubility are not the same thing. More EM may well dissolve in the PG than is prescribed for solubility, but to create a stable soluble solution without saturation, those are the numbers. Once you're willing to submit the solution to any kind of chemical reaction (i.e. applying heat, although it may not be necessary to achieve dissolution), you may well get a great deal more EM to dissolve, but it is still going to be a saturated solution. Thereby, making residue an inherent property of that solution since you've gone beyond the solubility level of the components.

When making my solution, contents go into a bottle and I simply shake it for a minute, let it sit for a few, then shake it up again. Given that the ratios used are those intended for a perfectly stable solution there's not a need to heat it or anything. I read about a lot of people heating their mixture, but that's only necessary when making a saturated solution. Even then, a temperature fluctuation (for example, when your solution returns to room temperature) can bring on sediment which will necessitate heating again.

I prefer to simply employ the proper amounts for a stable solution that is independent of temperature changes of a handful of degrees. It makes duplication and consistency possible. A juice that you loved using one batch of EM as an ingredient is sure to give you the same result the next time you make it with another batch of EM if your batches are always made using the exact same measurements. Filling anything to "about" a particular measurement is simply the enemy of consistency, and varying results will ensue...there's just no way around that.

I've only been using Ethyl Maltol at 1 gram to 17ml of PG as my research yielded those amounts as the measurements for creating a soluble solution. I've been problem free ever since, and I can create exact duplicates of my recipes that involve EM 'til the cows come home.​
 
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Aheadatime

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I've only been using Ethyl Maltol at 1 gram to 17ml of PG as my research yielded those amounts as the measurements for creating a soluble solution. I've been problem free ever since, and I can create exact duplicates of my recipes that involve EM 'til the cows come home.

Have you experimented with finding the soluble sweet spot for VG? Or is EM not VG-soluble?
 
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