How is high watts possible ?

[mcclintock]

To be able to run higher watts you have to run lower OHMs! I'm running at 60w with a .15 OHM build that runs at 3.1 volts. It sounds like you're running gear that isn't sub-ohm & probably won't do anything over probably 14w by design! If you really want to go higher watts do the research & find a VV/VW mod & a sub-ohm tank! Look at the sub-box mini by Kangertech, it might be a good place to start! I have found that I end up adj. my watts until my build reaches 3.0v to 4.5v! that seems to be the sweet spot for me!

I'm right now running .7 ohm at 9W (2.6 V), but have used 2.4 ohm at 22 watts (7V). These were different kinds of coils. The main reason for my .7 ohm is to make a small coil with wire that's thick enough to not erode rapidly and gets along somewhat with my RDA posts. And the 2.4 ohm was about 5 times the size of a 2.4 Protank coil.

Vapers that may or may not understand Ohm's law still manage to get the cart before the horse. Voltage and resistance determine how much power will flow, not what happens when that power flows, that's up to many different aspects of the coil and atomizer.

If you're using manufactured coils (non-TC), they'd better work pretty good right around 4 volts, because someone might use them on a mech. Or if you're making coils for mech. But if you're using a regulated mod you can try a lot of combinations.

One of the most common situations actually results in higher ohms = more power: using longer wire of the same type, e.g. more wraps. Higher resistance, more wire, larger coil. Only if you use thicker wire, or more pieces in parallel, do you get lower ohms and higher power handling.

 

[haleysdadda]

Everything.
Since Power (W) = I x V, =Vsquared/R.

Thank you David! I was pretty sure my personal experiences were correct!

 

[AndriaD]

Thank you Andria! My problem must be that I started with eGo twists! Because in my experience with all my tanks is that 3v to about 4.5 to 5v is where I like to be at this point! So I use my watts to control my volts accordingly! This may not be the right way but it works for me! Even with my MT with a dual alien clapton build at .15 ohms 60 watts (3.1 volts) is perfect!

But, you're using a regulated device, so you're actually doing it backwards -- as WattWick stated so eloquently, volts is input, wattage is output. You're telling your device what output you want, by adjusting the wattage; it then adjusts the voltage accordingly, depending on what resistance your coil is. I've done it that way for a long time too, but since getting this iPV Mini, I've had to reconsider -- I know that I like a vape that provides 9w, using a 1.7Ω coil. But a device that can't step down, when its battery is fully charged, is never going to deliver provide less than 4.2v, and with a 1.7Ω coil, that would be almost 10.4w -- a bit warmer than I like. So, I had to adjust my resistance upwards, to around 2Ω, which would cause that 4.2v to deliver 8.8w -- voila!

Andria

 

[Flt Simulation]

Andria ....

Maybe you should get yourself a VW mod that also steps voltage down (buck)

There are a lot of them available. Many will have Temp Control, but you certainly don't need to use it ... Just leave it in the Power (VW) mode.

 

[beckdg]

To be honest I really don't know how to explain it technically. All I can say for sure is when I've run more than say 5v with any Ohms with whatever watts especially in my tanks it's been way too hot for me sometimes to the point of burning! My Mutation X V4 could probably do it but I'm not sure my mouth could! That's what works for me & I hope you enjoy whatever works for you!

P.S. Good looking rig!

It's easy.

W = A•V
50W at 2 ohm is 5A at 10V
50W at 1 ohm is 7.07A at 7.07V
50W at 0.5 ohm is 10A at 5V
50W at 0.25 ohm is 14.14 at 3.53V

In theory, you can run 100 volts at 0.1 amp and get 10 watt output. Or 0.1 volt at 100 amp and get 10 watt output.

Wattage is not about amperage or voltage. Wattage is amperage and voltage. Voltage and amperage is input. Wattage is output - or the effect of amperage and voltage, if you will. To adjust wattage, you only have to adjust either voltage OR amperage. In a mechanical mod, you adjust voltage by adjusting the resistance (and thus the amperage). With a regulated mod, you adjust the wattage by adjusting the voltage.

"Sub-ohm" is a term that only made somewhat sense in the days when batteries had an output (amp) limit somewhere in the vicinity of what you would get from a 1 ohm coil on a mechanical mod. There is no magical limit or anything in particular happening around the 1 ohm mark. It's just a number. One that does not do anything on its own.

Wire gauge, people.

In short the same amount of heat applied to cook a nice steak on a small grill in 5 minutes might not warm your bedroom over several hours on a cold night.

A thin wire is your grill.

A thick wire is your room.

Electrical properties dictate that the more area over the least length the current can flow through, the less resistance the current will encounter.

This is where the confusion comes in.

Over simplification...

Lower ohms /= thicker wire automatically.

In electrical theory, resistance generally equates to heat. But generally thats within a given form factor or design parameters. Signs of component degradation, failure, etc.

As a general guesstimate we can assume that an increase in k a1 wire gauge by 2 will about half the resistance per length and double to triple the mass that needs to be heated.

In terms of practical use, a 1 ohm 34 gauge wire is basically a thin shunt and useless whereas @ 32 you get a couple wraps, @ 30 a usable coil @ 28 gauge, quite a few wraps, @ 26 becoming ridiculously large and needing QUITE a bit of power and air flow...

...

@ 20 gauge & 1 ohm, youll need car batteries run in series, a roll of gauze for wick, an atty the size of a coke bottle and air holes you could insert Pvc piping into.

ETA; Not to mention something that pumps joose like a sink faucet to feed the darned thing.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

So does that mean the temp of the vape is going to be the same across your examples?

Not by a long stretch.

The physical (telling) attributes are not told by electrical theory numbers.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Everything.
Since Power (W) = I x V, =Vsquared/R.

Nothing...



Tapatyped

 

[Boden]

So does that mean the temp of the vape is going to be the same across your examples?

If all the coils have the same ID and width then yes.

Thickness of the wire only effects ramp up and cool down time.

 

[beckdg]

But, you're using a regulated device, so you're actually doing it backwards -- as WattWick stated so eloquently, volts is input, wattage is output. You're telling your device what output you want, by adjusting the wattage; it then adjusts the voltage accordingly, depending on what resistance your coil is. I've done it that way for a long time too, but since getting this iPV Mini, I've had to reconsider -- I know that I like a vape that provides 9w, using a 1.7Ω coil. But a device that can't step down, when its battery is fully charged, is never going to deliver provide less than 4.2v, and with a 1.7Ω coil, that would be almost 10.4w -- a bit warmer than I like. So, I had to adjust my resistance upwards, to around 2Ω, which would cause that 4.2v to deliver 8.8w -- voila!

Andria

Your 1.7 ohm coil and 2.0 ohm coil likely use the same gauge and construction of wire. Thus it's possible for the vape to be undiscernible when setting to same or similar wattage output.

Though it IS different.

The wire with the extra wrap is actually burning a bit cooler aside from air flow strength and pattern.

I have to say I'm impressed with how that just snapped for you. Some people simply never get electrical theory let alone any applied physics pertaining to it.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

If all the coils have the same ID and width then yes.

Thickness of the wire only effects ramp up and cool down time.

I beg to differ

What about SS vs gplat vs nickel vs kanthal

Even without the different properties of the different compounds...

Put 7W through a 32ga 1.7 ohm k a1

Put 7W through 16ga 1.7 ohm k a1

I'm betting one won't atomize joose or burn your finger... ever...

But the 32 GA will burn joose without air flow.

Tapatyped

 

[David Wolf]

You guys sure make electric theory look harder than it is.

 

[AndriaD]

Andria ....

Maybe you should get yourself a VW mod that also steps voltage down (buck)

There are a lot of them available. Many will have Temp Control, but you certainly don't need to use it ... Just leave it in the Power (VW) mode.

Got lots of 'em, thanks. But none of them are as pretty as my new iPV Mini.

Andria

 

[Boden]

I beg to differ

What about SS vs gplat vs nickel vs kanthal

Even without the different properties of the different compounds...

Put 7W through a 32ga 1.7 ohm k a1

Put 7W through 16ga 1.7 ohm k a1

I'm betting one won't atomize joose or burn your finger... ever...

But the 32 GA will burn joose without air flow.

Tapatyped

We are talking about different things.

I'm comparing a 3mm ID x 8mm width dual parallel 30g coil to a 3mm ID x 8mm width 24 gauge coil. If both coils produce 50W of heat and they both are covering the same area of wick they are doing the same amount of work. The resistance may be different but since both are covering the same area the same amount of work gets done.

Don't get me started on how badly Steam Engine calculates applied heat flux.

 

[AndriaD]

Your 1.7 ohm coil and 2.0 ohm coil likely use the same gauge and construction of wire. Thus it's possible for the vape to be undiscernible when setting to same or similar wattage output.

Though it IS different.

The wire with the extra wrap is actually burning a bit cooler aside from air flow strength and pattern.

I have to say I'm impressed with how that just snapped for you. Some people simply never get electrical theory let alone any applied physics pertaining to it.

Tapatyped

You're right, it *is* very slightly different, and I do tend to set it just a bit higher -- I've been checking it today as I vaped, and I usually seem to prefer it when the voltage reading says 4.4v, or even 4.5v if I want a little more oomph. But it's similar enough that I was able to adjust very easily -- same 29ga, same 3/32 drillbit, so the wicking is the same as what I've gotten very used to over the last year, just 9 wraps instead of 7. I also tried a larger ID, 8 wraps around 7/64, which is what I first started with on KFL+'s, but it wasn't as good; not really *bad*, just the flavor wasn't as good. Maybe just because I've gotten used to wicking a 3/32 coil, so wicking a 7/64 coil after over a year of 3/32, was completely unfamiliar.

Till now it's all seemed very abstract to me, just math, with which I'm a total, unmitigated DOOFUS. But concepts...! Those I *can* deal with! Once I got the input/output construction of it all, it suddenly made a LOT more sense!

Andria

ETA: I forgot to add -- I'm also building the coil a little differently; with my 1.7Ω coils, i *always* left the coil spaced pretty substantially; with the 9 wrap coils I'm doing now, they're almost full-contact coils -- which does tend to provide a little more heat, or at least to concentrate the heat a bit more. But the vape is very similar to what I was used to for a long time, 1.7Ω spaced 7 wraps around 3/32.

 

[beckdg]

We are talking about different things.

I'm comparing a 3mm ID x 8mm width dual parallel 30g coil to a 3mm ID x 8mm width 24 gauge coil. If both coils produce 50W of heat and they both are covering the same area of wick they are doing the same amount of work. The resistance may be different but since both are covering the same area the same amount of work gets done.

Don't get me started on how badly Steam Engine calculates applied heat flux.

Ah

So

Carry on...

Tapatyped

 

[NickVapesEh]

High wattage isnt meant for everyone. Its possible with larger coils with a larger inner diameter. Ive run a .3 at 120 watts and its good for short hits with a large amount of vapor. 1 to 2 second hits, very satisfying for me. Claptons actually work alot better at higher wattages and on my series box

 

[haleysdadda]

You guys sure make electric theory look harder than it is.

Thought I had it now I'm confused! I know my way of thinking might not be the "right" way but it's the way that seems to work for me! I buy good batts (LG HG2s) & use them in regulated mods with safeties (IPV4s & Reauleux Rx 200) so I feel pretty safe! Thank you for your advice and I'm gonna keep asking until I get it or you guys get sick of me! LOL!

 

[beckdg]

Thought I had it now I'm confused! I know my way of thinking might not be the "right" way but it's the way that seems to work for me! I buy good batts (LG HG2s) & use them in regulated mods with safeties (IPV4s & Reauleux Rx 200) so I feel pretty safe! Thank you for your advice and I'm gonna keep asking until I get it or you guys get sick of me! LOL!

You're fine.

There's a lot to learn in electrical theory.

Some trig.

Some calculus.

Some applied physics.

Some basic principles.

Some basic math.

As long as the simple concepts click as did with Andria and you can use an ohms law calculator to make sure you're good with your batteries, you'll be fine.

Even @Baditude has troubles with quite a few concepts. (That man has a brilliant mind.)

No worries. Nobody becomes a master electrical engineer over night.

Those of us who have an understanding know what it took to obtain it. We don't expect it to just click.

Feel free to ask away and satisfy your curiosity. Somewhere along the lines, it's bound to help someone.

Tapatyped

 

[Boden]

101

Two cylinders

If you radiate 100W of heat from each of them, the one on the right which is half as large as the other will have a surface temperature that is twice that of the cylinder on the left.

To get them both to have the same surface temperature the one on the left needs to radiate twice the watts of the one on the right.

 

[WattWick]

What does volts have to do with "hot"?
70W of heat is 70W of heat.

Everything.
Since Power (W) = I x V, =Vsquared/R.

Nothing...

I'll meet you guys halfway and say "halfthing".

In the case of Davids equation: If either (I) or (V) = zero --> the sum (W) is zero.

In short the same amount of heat applied to cook a nice steak on a small grill in 5 minutes might not warm your bedroom over several hours on a cold night.

Let's not invite Joules to the party. That guy is so confusing