Seems to me that e-juice prices are going up. It's not unusual to see $17+ for 30ml plus postage. Considering that 10ml of ejuice cost about $0.50 to make I can't justify that cost specially when it's getting close to tobacco prices (in vape/smoke hours). I also notice lot of people that are getting in to DIY because they feel they're getting ripped off. What's your view on this?
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Competition drives prices down. There are a select few that feel they warrant higher prices either through hype, flashy packaging, scarcity, or sheer talent in mixology. After a while, high-quality juice vendors will begin to compete with each other for business and the only thing that does that effectively in any economy is lowering cost to the consumer. This is a budding business and I suspect we'll see prices go even higher until it hits critical mass. The consumer keeps the prices in check, though. Just as you stated, many vapers are turning to DIY. It's true, and that's not good news for juice vendors. Trends in the industry will keep juice prices from going out of control. I wouldn't worry. There is a natural flow to this economy and the ecig market is not immune to it.
This is one big reason why we don't want government regulation over this technology.
This is one big reason why we don't want government regulation over this technology.
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I do the diy just as a hobby and also since I vape at 0 nic. I just need some pg and vg and flavoring to play around with. I'll buy from a vendor and if I like the product I try my own version of it. I am usually around 02 cents a mil if not less.
Yeah, the juice is the greatest recurring cost. While still much cheaper than cigs, and I'm sure far less terrible for me, the markup on juice over the cost of buying your own nic/VG/PG/few flavorings and some VapeWizard or similar just makes DIYing the sensible choice for the long run. It really isn't that complicated but the profit markup assuming the maker only buys by the gallon is like 3100% or so.
[EDIT: At least that's what I recall it when I figured 30mL bottles at $18 a pop plus shipping, versus the total cost of a gallon each of PG and VG and enough top quality nic to make most of that get used up. It was a LOT of little 30mL bottles...]
[EDIT: At least that's what I recall it when I figured 30mL bottles at $18 a pop plus shipping, versus the total cost of a gallon each of PG and VG and enough top quality nic to make most of that get used up. It was a LOT of little 30mL bottles...]
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Yeah. And if nic gets impossible to get I DIY too and I'll have to figure out something for throat hit but I'll keep vaping even if it's zero nic. I snus and snuff anyway so I'm waiting for my very last big order of WTA juice for Vapelicious because I'm no longer willing to wait a very long time nor pay a lot even though the flavors are great and WTA great I'm making some good enough to very good flavors and can adjust them at home at the bat of an eye and it'll get better as i do more and getting my WTA from snus and snuff at at least 1/4 the price and less.
As for DIY, obviously it's a matter of labor, not markup. Everybodies math will be different, but when I did my math I could save less than $20/month by DIY. It cost me 10 times as much to order online, which sounds substantial, but is it worth $20/month to have a mini lab in my house and another chore to do? (again, everybodies math will be different. I only use about 1.5ml/day.)
The real question to me is, is $.50-.70/ml vendor all that much better than $.25-.35 vender. I'm still investigating that. I suspect I'll find some really good stuff that's pricey and keep some of it around while mostly vaping the cheap yet satisfying (and sometimes great) stuff.
The real question to me is, is $.50-.70/ml vendor all that much better than $.25-.35 vender. I'm still investigating that. I suspect I'll find some really good stuff that's pricey and keep some of it around while mostly vaping the cheap yet satisfying (and sometimes great) stuff.
$48 total for one gallon each of the finest VG and the finest PG you can buy. CoAs on file and they are unsurpassed by any others I've seen.
$24.95 for a just getting my feet wet 120mL bottle of nicotine from one of the vendors held in most esteem on this forum, again, top, top quality.
For flavorings at the moment I'm using little bottles of mostly natural and mostly organic flavorings from another vendor held in high regard for quality. I suspect though that, just as with vendors for gear most of their gear most of the time is the same stuff off the boat from China at varying prices, likewise for flavorings. The cost of flavors from, say naturalflavors, if indeed they are identical, which the names of the flavors and their descriptions all suggest, then I think I can pick up a 4 oz bottle of flavoring for about $15, $14 if not organic. Basically, enough to last forever, versus about $60 a month, all for an outlay of about a hundred bucks. That makes me 550mL of juice, all for $100, and when I run out all I have to do is buy more nic and maybe some new flavors to liven it up.
$24.95 for a just getting my feet wet 120mL bottle of nicotine from one of the vendors held in most esteem on this forum, again, top, top quality.
For flavorings at the moment I'm using little bottles of mostly natural and mostly organic flavorings from another vendor held in high regard for quality. I suspect though that, just as with vendors for gear most of their gear most of the time is the same stuff off the boat from China at varying prices, likewise for flavorings. The cost of flavors from, say naturalflavors, if indeed they are identical, which the names of the flavors and their descriptions all suggest, then I think I can pick up a 4 oz bottle of flavoring for about $15, $14 if not organic. Basically, enough to last forever, versus about $60 a month, all for an outlay of about a hundred bucks. That makes me 550mL of juice, all for $100, and when I run out all I have to do is buy more nic and maybe some new flavors to liven it up.
Ok, you're in Sydney. Where do you get your liquids from? That could be a "local" issue due to shipping costs. And that would include the added markup your vendors have to tack on due to higher shipping rates they pay to get stuff in for resale where you live. I haven't noticed any price creep at all from the USA vendors I purchase from.
I'm paying between $10.00 to 12.99 USD per 30 ml for what I buy. I'm also getting some premium stuff because I know how to work the sales doing it.
Ripped off is a matter of perspective. Some folks see the price of DIY materials and are shocked! shocked! that anyone would possibly charge one cent over the sum cost they see of DIY supplies. Sure. And if you have the time and the patience and the room to store all that stuff and can afford to either toss out or vape your mistakes then knock yourself out. Or you pay a markup for someone else to do all that for you. I don't have a problem with e-liquid markups, nor the time and space to diddle with DIY.
I'm paying between $10.00 to 12.99 USD per 30 ml for what I buy. I'm also getting some premium stuff because I know how to work the sales doing it.
Ripped off is a matter of perspective. Some folks see the price of DIY materials and are shocked! shocked! that anyone would possibly charge one cent over the sum cost they see of DIY supplies. Sure. And if you have the time and the patience and the room to store all that stuff and can afford to either toss out or vape your mistakes then knock yourself out. Or you pay a markup for someone else to do all that for you. I don't have a problem with e-liquid markups, nor the time and space to diddle with DIY.
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I don't see what labor or diddling could justify a 3000% markup over materials cost, but you're right convenience and availability would be the factors I guess.
I am kinda wondering if any of you own a small business who are complaining of the markup?
Here's the thing to consider. Even if the vg, pg, flavoring, and nicotine only sum to, let's say, 50 cents per 30ml to make, are you considering the following that many juice vendors ALSO have as a cost?
* the plastic or glass bottles
* labeling
* sealing materials
* packaging materials
* website and hosting costs
* business licences
* paypal or credit card fees
* mixing supplies
* advertising costs
* margin for error for tossed product, unhappy customers, postal mistakes, etc.
* facility costs (if they don't mix in their home)
* business supplies (printer, ink, post office box, etc)
You see, I tend to cut the vendors a little slack when it comes to what they charge because I don't have an entire room, garage, or storage in my home devoted to mixing. I also don't have to spend the time mixing. I also don't have to spend no telling how many hours a week doing the customer service end of the business like answering phone calls or emails.
Look, I'm not saying that I would buy a juice from a vendor charging $20+shipping for a 30ml juice. Nope, I'd be prone to buying from someone like ecblends who tend to have low prices, coupons, and a reliable, good product.
I do think, though, that vendors are in business to make money and I am perfectly fine knowing they are making a couple of bucks off of each bottle sold.
Here's the thing to consider. Even if the vg, pg, flavoring, and nicotine only sum to, let's say, 50 cents per 30ml to make, are you considering the following that many juice vendors ALSO have as a cost?
* the plastic or glass bottles
* labeling
* sealing materials
* packaging materials
* website and hosting costs
* business licences
* paypal or credit card fees
* mixing supplies
* advertising costs
* margin for error for tossed product, unhappy customers, postal mistakes, etc.
* facility costs (if they don't mix in their home)
* business supplies (printer, ink, post office box, etc)
You see, I tend to cut the vendors a little slack when it comes to what they charge because I don't have an entire room, garage, or storage in my home devoted to mixing. I also don't have to spend the time mixing. I also don't have to spend no telling how many hours a week doing the customer service end of the business like answering phone calls or emails.
Look, I'm not saying that I would buy a juice from a vendor charging $20+shipping for a 30ml juice. Nope, I'd be prone to buying from someone like ecblends who tend to have low prices, coupons, and a reliable, good product.
I do think, though, that vendors are in business to make money and I am perfectly fine knowing they are making a couple of bucks off of each bottle sold.
So this shows the Difference in $$
Mark up is huge, and your DIY ingredients are all top notch in this example.
Diy isn't to me work, I treat this like a hobby. I am not interested in saving money per say. I am interested in staying off the death sticks. The overhead for these companies can't compare to me. I mix 1 recipe in 10 minutes and I am done. The juice is just part of the big picture. Imagine the markup on a pv. I could bet the markup is more.
For sampling new juices, I will pay up to $0.66 per ml shipped for good juice from a vendor. I usually get my ADVs for $0.50 per ml or less, as the bottles are larger and cost a little less per ml.
I DIY but recently have gone on a juice buying binge. I wanted to see what's out there and I'm glad I did. I've been lucky and have all of the great juices listed on Notepad. I get uncomfortable paying over $16 for juice but if it's a great juice I'll pay it anytime. I justify the juice prices much easier when I see a vendor with flat rate $3 shipping or in the case of Fuzion, under $3, at least it was where I live. When an unnamed vendor charges $15 for $18 ml and charges almost $7 shipping they will never get my money.
Generally speaking, to come up with a Boba's or VS4 or Gandolf, etc just doesn't happen in an hour unless the mixer is very lucky. Some flavors are worked on for weeks or months. If they get a winner then it's worth it.
It probably doesn't cost much to make Coca-Cola or beer but there aren't all that many people that make their own beer. There are a lot that do but not compared to someone buying off the shelf.
I look forward to DIY again because after vaping so many great juices I have more ideas. But to me, I can't keep seeing it as a one hour process, I have to see it in days or weeks for a great flavor. I just have a lot to learn but it is fun. But many times wasteful for me.
I'll still buy amazing flavors like Hype, Gorilla Juice, and others.
It's good to cook at home but now and then it's good to go out for a great meal and all you have to do is place the order.
You have to have b*lls to open your own business and it's 7 days a week. I don't mind paying reasonable vendors for their work.
Sorry, long post. Damn coffee.
Generally speaking, to come up with a Boba's or VS4 or Gandolf, etc just doesn't happen in an hour unless the mixer is very lucky. Some flavors are worked on for weeks or months. If they get a winner then it's worth it.
It probably doesn't cost much to make Coca-Cola or beer but there aren't all that many people that make their own beer. There are a lot that do but not compared to someone buying off the shelf.
I look forward to DIY again because after vaping so many great juices I have more ideas. But to me, I can't keep seeing it as a one hour process, I have to see it in days or weeks for a great flavor. I just have a lot to learn but it is fun. But many times wasteful for me.
I'll still buy amazing flavors like Hype, Gorilla Juice, and others.
It's good to cook at home but now and then it's good to go out for a great meal and all you have to do is place the order.
You have to have b*lls to open your own business and it's 7 days a week. I don't mind paying reasonable vendors for their work.
Sorry, long post. Damn coffee.
I respect the people who DIY, but it is just not for me. I will happily pay for someone to do it for me. They have to make money, too, so I don't worry about it too much. Compared to the price of cigarettes, it's alot cheaper either way.
I am kinda wondering if any of you own a small business who are complaining of the markup?
Here's the thing to consider. Even if the vg, pg, flavoring, and nicotine only sum to, let's say, 50 cents per 30ml to make, are you considering the following that many juice vendors ALSO have as a cost?
* the plastic or glass bottles
* labeling
* sealing materials
* packaging materials
* website and hosting costs
* business licences
* paypal or credit card fees
* mixing supplies
* advertising costs
* margin for error for tossed product, unhappy customers, postal mistakes, etc.
* facility costs (if they don't mix in their home)
* business supplies (printer, ink, post office box, etc)
You see, I tend to cut the vendors a little slack when it comes to what they charge because I don't have an entire room, garage, or storage in my home devoted to mixing. I also don't have to spend the time mixing. I also don't have to spend no telling how many hours a week doing the customer service end of the business like answering phone calls or emails.
Look, I'm not saying that I would buy a juice from a vendor charging $20+shipping for a 30ml juice. Nope, I'd be prone to buying from someone like ecblends who tend to have low prices, coupons, and a reliable, good product.
I do think, though, that vendors are in business to make money and I am perfectly fine knowing they are making a couple of bucks off of each bottle sold.
And then there are taxes!
I dont see the mark up as unreasonable. I dont think any one selling juice is riding in a limo. Like most things its always cheaper to do it your self. 17$ to vape for a week is not a lot of money. If you cant afford or do not want to pay Vendor prices its pretty nice you have the option to DIY. But I dont see why a person would knock the next guy for their price? Im working 72 hrs a week right now so making some juice is the last thing I want to do with my day off.
If you're happy with DIY or whatever, cool. But, I don't need another hobby. I bought some unflavored and a few flavorings and then realized how I didn't want to devote that much time to screw with it. Everyone who doesn't DIY isn't a fool. Not everyone who tries mixing is going to make acceptable juice. EVen if the juice is terrible, a given person might like it anyway! Not me so much.
The cost of materials may be lowish but 1/2 hour labor and postage have nothing to do with the cost of materials. Unless you want juice squirted out by a robot. Then it is cheaper.
'
By the way, what is the tobacco tax in Sydney?
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