How to reduce harshness?

[Calaban]

My favorite juice, Jon Wayne by Uncle Junk's, is no more. It's really a problem because it's the only vape juice I like.

So I've decided to start DIY...again.

I vaped Jon Wayne at 3mg. I'm reasonably certain that it was 70VG, 30PG.

So I have been mixing batches of RY4 Double (a poor but passable substitute) with the same Nic/VG/PG, and vaping it on the same hardware and the same wattage.

But it's harsh on my throat in a way that Jon Wayne never was.

Everything I have read about reducing the harshness says mix more VG, or lower the Nic, or vape at a lower wattage.

But it seems clear to me that Jon Wayne had something else going on that made it smoother.

Any tips?

 

[zoiDman]

...

Any tips?

Yeah...

1) Make sure you Non-Flavor Ingredients taste OK. Mix a Batch of unflavored at your mg/ml and VG|PG Ratios. Does it taste fine?

2) Consider Lowering you Flavoring Percentages. (Since you Posted No Recipe, No Clue as to what Percentages you are using?)

3) Use a Sweetener.

4) Add a few Drops of Water per 15ml of Finished e-Liquid.

5) Taste after Mixing. Then "Steep" for at least 5 Days.

If #1 is OK, Harshness can almost always be Cured by #2 and or a Combination of #2 and #3.

If #1 is Not OK, Harshness might Only be Cured by #3.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I'm reasonably certain that it was 70VG, 30PG.

Yes, according to various sites it was a 70VG eliquid, which seems to be very common these days.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes, according to various sites it was a 70PG eliquid, which seems to be very common these days.

You meant to say 70VG, right?

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

In terms of replicating the juice, a google search for "recipe Jon Wayne Uncle Junk" seems to turn up a lot of possibly useful links.

There's also these threads that might interest you

RWhy4 - My new all day vape!

Scutch - RWhy4 Reloaded

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

You meant to say 70VG, right?

Yes! lol. Went back and edited the post.

 

[Izan]

As a fan of the JW, it is a very complex recipe; one I have given up trying to reproduce.
Also as a multi year user of TPA D-RY4, it is a harsh throat killer if mixed above 5% and without 30 days of aging.
I have taken to mixing 1000ml per batch at double my flavoring and nicotine level. After a minimum of 1 month, I cut it 50% with 80/20 for my daily elixir.
Number one protip for D-RY4: Let it age
Second would be to add a fruit/graham/custard/candy note to the mix to lower the "bite" just a bit.

Cheers
I

 

[zoiDman]

Yes! lol. Went back and edited the post.

I Figured so.

Because if we were talk'n 70PG, that has Harshness written All Over It. At least for Most.

 

[Calaban]

Good replies. Thanks for the advice everyone. I will investigate these options.

Doing my best not to get frustrated as I have in the past. I just purchased 2 liters of Nic due to the vape mail deal, so I'm in it for the long haul.

If I can come up with even one recipe that satisfies me close to the way Jon Wayne did, I'll be happy.

 

[Calaban]

1) Make sure you Non-Flavor Ingredients taste OK. Mix a Batch of unflavored at your mg/ml and VG|PG Ratios. Does it taste fine?

I have not tried this yet, but all my ingredients are brand new and the Nic went straight into the freezer.

2) Consider Lowering you Flavoring Percentages. (Since you Posted No Recipe, No Clue as to what Percentages you are using?)

The recipe is simple:
RY4 Double 8%
Nic 3mg
70/30 VG/PG

This is my second time making this, but last time I started with the RY4 at 10% and decided that was too much (also harsh). Now at 8% it's still harsh but the flavor is rather weak.

I think I may need to add some more flavors to it so I can reduce it even more.

3) Use a Sweetener.

I bought some sweetener. Ethyl Maltol in PG. But I have no idea how to use it yet. I will look into that but any tips are appreciated!

4) Add a few Drops of Water per 15ml of Finished e-Liquid.

Huh. I have not heard of people doing this before. Is this common? I have assumed for years that I want to keep water out of my tank.

5) Taste after Mixing. Then "Steep" for at least 5 Days.

Steeping is something I need to come to terms with. This last batch I made enough to start vaping one bottle while the others steep. In truth this bottle steeped for 3 days while I was finishing another, but it's quite harsh. Maybe the lack of steep time has contributed to the harshness.

 

[Letitia]

Distilled water works quite well with ejuice. To help reduce harshness you can sub dw for some of you pg. Might try 80vg 20pg 5dw to start with. ELR I'm sure would have several John Wayne clones posted.

 

[Izan]

Good replies. Thanks for the advice everyone. I will investigate these options.

Doing my best not to get frustrated as I have in the past. I just purchased 2 liters of Nic due to the vape mail deal, so I'm in it for the long haul.

If I can come up with even one recipe that satisfies me close to the way Jon Wayne did, I'll be happy.

When I started with DRY-4, I liked to add 3%-5% of TPA Cheesecake/graham crust. It smooths the tobacco base a bit and the graham adds a nice sweetness.

Have you tried any of the JW clone recipes?
Please post what you have tried/found.

Cheers
I

 

[smacuser]

ELR I'm sure would have several John Wayne clones posted.

I'm pretty sure it's Jon Wayne

 

[Letitia]

I'm pretty sure it's Jon Wayne

Probably
Hey smack

 

[smacuser]

Probably
Hey smack

Hey Leti

Yeah. I was looking this up last night and saw Jon Wayne is much like Boba's in that there are not any recipes that look the same except for the Ry4 Double. Lots of cakes, swirls, smooth, AP, booze, custards, etc.

Good thing I never had the opportunity to try the real deal .

 

[Calaban]

Since they went out of business and posted a long letter explaining why they were giving up, I'm almost tempted to email them and ask for the recipe.

I'm sure I'd be met with crickets but...who knows!

 

[BrotherBob]

Steeping is something I need to come to terms with. This last batch I made enough to start vaping one bottle while the others steep. In truth this bottle steeped for 3 days while I was finishing another, but it's quite harsh. Maybe the lack of steep time has contributed to the harshness.

If I am not familiar with a mix/flavor, I suggest steeping all new mixes a minimum of 4 weeks. Only then will I experiment and try to trim down steeping time.

 

[Calaban]

If I am not familiar with a mix/flavor, I suggest steeping all new mixes a minimum of 4 weeks. Only then will I experiment and try to trim down steeping time.

Thanks for the advice.

As of now I don't have the patience for a 4 week steep. I'm weak I know!

But as a novice mixer, it's tough to commit to steeping a flavor for 4 weeks when I don't even know if I'll like the flavor. And I need juice to vape in the meantime or it's back to analogs.

I think I'm going to experiment with the "warm water steep" idea and see how that affects things.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[smacuser]

Depending on how much you vape, make a bigger batch you can divide in half and try both methods.

I've never sped up any steep and tend to be impatient at the same time.

 

[zoiDman]

I have not tried this yet, but all my ingredients are brand new and the Nic went straight into the freezer.

I really Would if I was you.

If you do, and everything Tastes Good, then by Process of Elimination it is in you Favoring. Or Flavoring and Lack of Sweetener.

If you Don't, well, it could be just about Anything in your Mix that is Causing the Problem.

The recipe is simple:
RY4 Double 8%
Nic 3mg
70/30 VG/PG

This is my second time making this, but last time I started with the RY4 at 10% and decided that was too much (also harsh). Now at 8% it's still harsh but the flavor is rather weak.

Seems like a Straight Forward recipe. And probably a Reasonable Percentage.

I think I may need to add some more flavors to it so I can reduce it even more.

Tempting I Know. But I would Hold Off. Throwing More Flavors at a Non-Finished Mix can Fix Things. Sometimes. But Lots of times you just make a something that is a Mess. And it can be Very Hard to Fix because you Don't Know what did what.

I would get the Kinks out of what you have 1st. Then you can Branch Out and make Hybrids.

I bought some sweetener. Ethyl Maltol in PG. But I have no idea how to use it yet. I will look into that but any tips are appreciated!

Ethyl Maltol can add a Degree of Sweetness. But you can Only go so Far with it. Then you Mix turns into Chemical Meh. If you Need Sweet, then consider picking up a bottle of TFA Sweetener. Which is a Sucralose Sweetener.

Huh. I have not heard of people doing this before. Is this common? I have assumed for years that I want to keep water out of my tank.

Yeah... It is Very Common.

Steeping is something I need to come to terms with. This last batch I made enough to start vaping one bottle while the others steep. In truth this bottle steeped for 3 days while I was finishing another, but it's quite harsh. Maybe the lack of steep time has contributed to the harshness.

Steeping is a Necessary Evil. Just like Spaghetti Sauce tastes better when it Slow Simmer All Day on the Stove, your Mixes are going to have to just Sit. Because they Are going to change.

And if you try to Adjust a Recipe before the Steeping is Over, you can end up Chasing you Tail adding this one Time. And removing that another.

I'm Not a Tobacco Flavor Mixer. So I'll leave those who Do.

But My Rule about Steeping is to Taste a Few Hits when it is First Mixed. Then Repeat every 3 Days or so. When the Flavor stops changing, you're Done.

This could maybe be Two Weeks for a Tobacco. Maybe Less. Hard to Say.

---

Above ALL ELSE, if you Only Listen to ONE THING that People Tell You, here is the MOST Important thing to Doing Successful DIY...

"Keep Detailed, Accurate and Dated Notes on Everything you do to a New Recipe. No Exceptions."