How to remove oxygen from storage bottles.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Magic Of Light

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 20, 2012
265
249
Englewood Ohio
Fill bottle completely or squeeze out air and secure cap. A cone insert is also an option, but may not be worth the added expense/difficulty in sourcing.

Cheers
I
If it were that easy it would be easy. But shaking the solution before pouring gives air bubbles, and if you are pouring into glass you cannot squeeze the bottle. There has to be more to it than that. I have read of some people leaving 3mm "recommended" at the top of the bottle for expansion when taken out of the freezer, but that still leaves a signifigant amount of air. The 120ml poly cone amber glass bottles is what I will be storing in, but to maximize the lifespan of it to prepare for next month im kind of at a loss, since bubbles form when shaking before pouring.
 

Alien Traveler

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 3, 2014
4,402
5,789
United States
Another question I have would be this. If you leave say the 3mm of air space at the top, can the oxygen continue oxidizing all the nicotine? Or when the nicotine is oxidized is the oxygen also rendered inert to cause further oxidation?
Amount of oxygen at the top of a bottle is too small, oxidation of nicotine because of it is negligible. Simply fill your glass bottles as recommended. No need to worry.
 

Izan

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 1, 2012
8,848
15,677
Mallorca, Spain
If it were that easy it would be easy. But shaking the solution before pouring gives air bubbles, and if you are pouring into glass you cannot squeeze the bottle. There has to be more to it than that. I have read of some people leaving 3mm "recommended" at the top of the bottle for expansion when taken out of the freezer, but that still leaves a signifigant amount of air. The 120ml poly cone amber glass bottles is what I will be storing in, but to maximize the lifespan of it to prepare for next month im kind of at a loss, since bubbles form when shaking before pouring.

It IS that easy.
Don't shake
PG/VG contract when frozen (only water expands).
When the O2 is used up...well oxidation stops. (the lion share, 99% or so stops)
Protect from UV radiation and store in a cool/cold location to decrease/slow the chemical interactions.

All the rest is GRAVY.

Cheers
I
 
  • Like
Reactions: sonicbomb

Magic Of Light

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 20, 2012
265
249
Englewood Ohio
It IS that easy.
Don't shake
PG/VG contract when frozen (only water expands).
When the O2 is used up...well oxidation stops. (the lion share, 99% or so stops)
Protect from UV radiation and store in a cool/cold location to decrease/slow the chemical interactions.

All the rest is GRAVY.

Cheers
I
You have to shake...If you do not shake before pouring you risk the nicotine not being spread evenly. The same reason you shake a large bottle before filling your tank. Even suggesting that to me is not only negligent, but also dangerous.
 

440BB

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 19, 2011
9,227
34,009
The Motor City
You have to shake...If you do not shake before pouring you risk the nicotine not being spread evenly. The same reason you shake a large bottle before filling your tank. Even suggesting that to me is not only negligent, but also dangerous.

I don't think that shaking is necessary but perhaps it is helpful with VG bases if one is concerned they weren't fully mixed originally. I can't find a source indicating not shaking is dangerous.
 

Izan

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 1, 2012
8,848
15,677
Mallorca, Spain
You have to shake...If you do not shake before pouring you risk the nicotine not being spread evenly. The same reason you shake a large bottle before filling your tank. Even suggesting that to me is not only negligent, but also dangerous.

Please provide evidence of nicotine coming out of solution at the concentrations/levels we use.
I respect your opinion, however it is not supported by fact.
Please follow the links provided by @YoursTruli.

Cheers
I
 

Magic Of Light

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 20, 2012
265
249
Englewood Ohio
Shake well, let air bubbles rise to surface, Bottle with small headroom, done. And every one is happy.

And Magic, it really is that simple, do some research in the nicotine comparison thread link provided for you.
Yeah I read Lukes post, and i appreciate his and everyones work and advice. But shaking eliquid is basic knowledge every vaper should have. So you should always give it a little shake before bottling for storage or using. VG is worse than PG is for that. But it still happens. Im not going to sight any professional articles about that issue, because any vaper who doesnt know this by now, needs to quit nicotine altogether, or they are brand new and need to learn it, either way, shaking makes sure the nicotine is spread evenly. And it is a good practice, and will prevent pockets of higher strength nicotine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KentA

Magic Of Light

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 20, 2012
265
249
Englewood Ohio
I don't think that shaking is necessary but perhaps it is helpful with VG bases if one is concerned they weren't fully mixed originally. I can't find a source indicating not shaking is dangerous.
It may not be dangerous, but it may also be. I have yet to see a video of someone filling a tank or anything of the sort without shaking their bottle first. It is because it makes sure the nicotine is spread evenly. You dont want tiny pockets of high strength, and it may not happen but only .0005% of the time, but its still a possibility and precautions should be taken to prevent it from happening.
 

AzPlumber

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 28, 2011
5,051
9,789
Arizona
Yeah I read Lukes post, and i appreciate his and everyones work and advice. But shaking eliquid is basic knowledge every vaper should have. So you should always give it a little shake before bottling for storage or using. VG is worse than PG is for that. But it still happens. Im not going to sight any professional articles about that issue, because any vaper who doesnt know this by now, needs to quit nicotine altogether, or they are brand new and need to learn it, either way, shaking makes sure the nicotine is spread evenly. And it is a good practice, and will prevent pockets of higher strength nicotine.

Some liquids just don't separate, do you shake your beer or soda before using? It's been said many times that nic base that has been mixed properly does not separate.
 

Magic Of Light

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 20, 2012
265
249
Englewood Ohio
Some liquids just don't separate, do you shake your beer or soda before using? It's been said many times that nic base that has been mixed properly does not separate.
But assuming that it is 100% mixed correctly is putting it in someone else's hands. Comparing it to a beer or soda is a joke. http://..................com/threads/shaking-nic-base.29586/ VG especially can have streaks of separation they say there. But as long as im shaking it without adding in alot of oxygen it is really a non issue anyways. So saying not to shake, is as pointless as some people say shaking is.

For safeties and consistencies sake I always shake, from the base to the fill. I have yet to have any base oxidize on me from shaking. But up till now I have only bought 120ml at a time, which lasts me about 4 months. But never had anything but crystal clear nic base. Even shaking it once every 2 weeks to make a new 30ml bottle. So no, it may not be 100% necessary, but it is like underwear. You dont need to wear it, but its nice to.
 

Alien Traveler

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 3, 2014
4,402
5,789
United States
Some liquids just don't separate, do you shake your beer or soda before using? It's been said many times that nic base that has been mixed properly does not separate.
^^^ Read this! Nicotine is miscible in PG/VG, no separation will occur. Not so sure about flavorings.
 

dannyv45

ECF DIY E-Liquid Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 12, 2013
7,739
8,424
New Jersey
www.e-cigarette-forum.com
I will shake well when I first get new NIC, let the bubbles settle out then fill to the neck of a boston round glass bottle and freeze. I usually titrate test my new nic and wright the results on a bottle label along with the date received, concentration and base component (VG/PG). I freeze in liter bottles and divide 1 working liter into 8 120ml bottles which also stay frozen until needed. 120mls is a 3 - 4 month supply for me. I keep my 1 working 120ml bottle in the refrigerator when not in use. I've been doing this for almost 4 years, always using my oldest NIC first and my oldest NIC is as fresh tasting as the day it was new.
 
Last edited:

bwh79

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 11, 2014
4,600
6,643
46
Oregon
1: Shaking a new bottle of nic solution before first use is recommended, and of course shaking a finished liquid after mixing is a must. Aside from that, no, I don't usually see people shake their liquids before each use. You must not be watching the same videos I am. You shake it initially to make sure it's all evenly mixed, but once that's done, it shouldn't "unmix" itself.

2: Shaking a sealed bottle, won't introduce any more oxygen than what was already in the bottle.

3: Here's a quote from our resident chemist @Kurt about oxidation in sealed glass:

If you feel better by purging the headspace air with N2 or Ar to rid it of O2, ok. However, I think it is a negligible effect. 3 mL of headspace air at 25% O2 will give enough O2 to at most react with about 5 mg of nicotine. And that is only if it all reacts. VG naturally contains about 2 mg of O2 per liter, which if it all reacts will oxidize about 0.38 mg of nic...per liter of VG.

Note that that's not 5mg of nicotine per ml, but 5mg overall. So in a 120ml bottle with 100mg/ml nicotine, that's 12,000mg of nicotine. If 5mg of that reacts with oxygen, then there's still 11,995mg remaining, at a strength of 11,995/120 or 99.958333... mg/ml. In a 1L bottle, it would be 99.995mg/ml instead of 100 even. Once you mix that down to a finished liquid, I doubt that even the most sophisticated of tasters would be able to tell the difference.
 

IDJoel

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 20, 2015
3,459
11,932
62
Boise, ID
3: Here's a quote from our resident chemist @Kurt about oxidation in sealed glass:
Hi @Magic Of Light,
In case you have not run across @Kurt's postings and stickies; He IS a Professor of Chemistry at a university in Pennsylvania as well as a person who vapes himself. He is quite open to helping those who genuinely want to understand (not so much with those who just want to argue). If you would like a more "educated" explanation I am sure he would respond to a private conversation. He has for me (I had similar questions).

You might first start by looking at some of his posts. I did a quick search of pots by Kurt with the keyword of oxidation and got quite a few hits. I looked at the first half dozen or so and most deal with your topic and you may find it helpful. This is a link to my search results.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread