Humectants: The end of the road?

[Technohydra]

More to your point, I think it will remain a needed component, because visible results and party tricks are a thing. If we went from blowing clouds with smokes to blowing clouds with vaping, I think that concept will stay. Look at the cloud chasing, it's an addiction to huge visibly impressive fogs. And kids love going out in winter and 'being a dragon' with their breath.

I doubt that this component of the lifestyle will disappear anytime soon, if ever. We like to verify our actions visibly. Think of the Nicotrol inhaler, one of the reasons it failed was a reverse placebo effect. Take a drag, get the nic, but get no taste or smoke...must not be working (pitch).

 

[AthensGa]

If we're not trying to fool our brains into thinking that we are smoking, you might as well just use the patch or gum.

 

[generic mutant]

Essentially, the vapor will be at it's most dense and 'visible' in the atomization chamber. Anything from then on will disperse it. If you want proof of that, all you have to do is try vaping under a ceiling fan. The particles will scatter due to airflow and become invisible extremely quickly. Conversely, if you pull vapor into your lungs and then slowly exhale it into a glass bottle or jar, it will remain as it is. ...

That proves very little, because you've exhaled all the vapour you're looking at.

Google for how a theatre fog machine works. One of the main methods is to use PG and water. When they use pure PG, it's because it mixes with water in the air, to form visible fog.

 

[generic mutant]

...Think of the Nicotrol inhaler, one of the reasons it failed was a reverse placebo effect. Take a drag, get the nic, but get no taste or smoke...must not be working (pitch).

I'm talking about the time after when we're trying to simulate smoking.

 

[EddardinWinter]

GM, you seem to be encountering some staunch resistance here. Part of the reason PG is used is due to it being an excellent solvent of many water-insoluble materials. When we no longer need the throat hit (hypothetically) we could use another good solvent in its stead, perhaps.



Tapped out

 

[generic mutant]

GM, you seem to be encountering some staunch resistance here. Part of the reason PG is used is due to it being an excellent solvent of many water-insoluble materials. When we no longer need the throat hit (hypothetically) we could use another good solvent in its stead, perhaps.



Tapped out

This place completely bewilders me sometimes. It's like a cult. You don't even have to be criticising something before the knives come out.

If I wrote "I dropped my PV on my foot, it broke my toe." I'd get at least five posts saying "No. No You didn't. That didn't happen. PVs don't do that"...

 

[EddardinWinter]

This place completely bewilders me sometimes. It's like a cult. You don't even have to be criticising something before the knives come out.

If I wrote "I dropped my PV on my foot, it broke my toe." I'd get at least five posts saying "No. No You didn't. That didn't happen. PVs don't do that"...

It kinda is a cult. People are weird, including me and you, buddy.

Anyway, I like your premise. I don't know much beyond what I have offered thus far.



Tapped out

 

[LucentShadow]

I believe that anecdotal evidence shows that many e-cig users 'chase clouds' well beyond what is comparable to smoking, and most prefer at least an amount of vapor that still is beyond what is comparable to smoking.

I doubt that this would change significantly over time, personally. Without that aspect, one may as well pop a micro-pill at regular intervals, IMO. Who knows what variations from our current tech there may be by then, though.

As for the question of where the mist forms when vaping, it needs no moisture from the lungs, as you can use an air pump blowing through an atomizer to produce plenty of visible mist. It does seem to me that low humidity air produces less visible mist, and dissipates it faster, so I have no doubt that moisture in the air is being picked up by the humectants.

I would guess that some moisture may be pulled from the air in our lungs, as well, but I would think that the tissues would merely collect any PG/VG that hits them. This would still be somewhat drying to the tissues, I suppose.

 

[DC2]

If something doesn't produce visible vapor or smoke, I won't ever use it.

 

[generic mutant]

I believe that anecdotal evidence shows that many e-cig users 'chase clouds' well beyond what is comparable to smoking, and most prefer at least an amount of vapor that still is beyond what is comparable to smoking.

I doubt that this would change significantly over time, personally. Without that aspect, one may as well pop a micro-pill at regular intervals, IMO. Who knows what variations from our current tech there may be by then, though.

A pill is unlikely (at least without fantastic technology) to create the sensation of heat and throat hit, or the same 'mouth feel' of flavour (similar flavour, sure - but not the same sense of air filled with flavour).

Chasing clouds is just one dimension of what we're doing, and a lot of people aren't interested in it at all.

I suppose another way of posing the original question is this: If cigarettes had never existed, and vaping appeared as a thing 'without precedent', what would it be like? Would we care about visible clouds? I suspect some people would want them, but I suspect many wouldn't care, and would simply find it more convenient to be able to vape 'invisibly' and without the accompanying dehydration (assuming the two are directly related).

As for the question of where the mist forms when vaping, it needs no moisture from the lungs, as you can use an air pump blowing through an atomizer to produce plenty of visible mist. It does seem to me that low humidity air produces less visible mist, and dissipates it faster, so I have no doubt that moisture in the air is being picked up by the humectants.

I would guess that some moisture may be pulled from the air in our lungs, as well, but I would think that the tissues would merely collect any PG/VG that hits them. This would still be somewhat drying to the tissues, I suppose.

Whether most of the moisture in the mist comes from the air or from us is in a sense immaterial - if it needs additional moisture to make appreciable mist, and a side effect of that is that it's dehydrating us, it's not ideal if we don't care about the clouds...

 

[Zealous]

Will the market move significantly away from humectants? If you aren't trying to fool former smokers' brains into thinking they're smoking, would there be any point to a visible cloud for most users? Would other bases, which didn't dehydrate the user or draw attention, be preferable?

It seems that what you're asking here is, if/when we get to a point where smokers don't vape because it's "like smoking" (because there ARE no smokers anymore) could there possibly be a more preferred method for nicotine intake in our future that does not produce clouds.

Yes I think this could be a possibility for those that actually vape for the nicotine. One of the major successes in vaping is the fact that we manage the nicotine levels ourselves. One of the reasons that other quit smoking aids fail is the dose of nicotine they provide is too low to be satisfying. Vaping is not this way for the person who's doing it FOR the nicotine. I can totally see taking nicotine orally through food, drink, patch, gum or some other way being a preferred method by some, IF the dose they are able to get from that would be high enough. But the idea behind this would not be to STOP using nicotine but instead as an alternative nicotine delivery method.

However I think there will always be a group who is attracted to the inhalant aspect of vaping. So then a patch or gum, for these people, would not satisfy them since it doesn't give that feeling of taking an inhalant, even if the nicotine dose is high enough. But I don't necessarily think this group would care if there was visible vapor produced on the exhale. For them it would be more about the feeling of taking an inhalant as well as getting a high enough nicotine dose. If it feels right I think they would be happy with it (like a nic inhaler that actually WORKS)

So, bottom line: if/when we get to a point where there are not smokers & everyone who would have smoked chooses to vape instead, the only real "purpose" for the clouds (since it wouldn't be to emulate smoking) would be for entertainment value, sort of like a fog machine is for entertainment value.

Since this seems to be a hypothetical what if type thing this is how I think it might look in this hypothetical world.

 

[StormFinch]

One of the reasons that other quit smoking aids fail is the dose of nicotine they provide is too low to be satisfying. Vaping is not this way for the person who's doing it FOR the nicotine.

Except that I've seen some vapers complain that they got nic sick from too much nicotine in the NRTs. Like what level of nic it takes to quit with vaping, everyone is different. Some are addicted to tobacco as a whole, some to the hand to mouth and some to the smoking sensation that are all missing with the standard NRTs.

I've also noticed a new breed of vaper coming into play. The 0 nic cloud chasers. They don't vape because they smoked, or even need the nic, they just like looking like a walking fog machine. They tend to be younger, so when all of us ex smokers are gone, will the above mentioned cloud chasers then rule the scene?

 

[supertrunker]

That depends whether they learn enough about batteries and coils before or after they fire up stacked 18650s with a 0.1Ω coil!

T

 

[Technohydra]

Do I think it's possible? Yes. It most certainly could be. To be honest, I personally don't find it to be an issue, though. Might I ask why you do find it to be this important? I might be more able to respond positively if I understood the base issue. As I see it, a couple glasses of water kills the dehydration issue. At this point, I'd like to understand in case I'm missing something important.

 

[Technohydra]

That depends whether they learn enough about batteries and coils before or after they fire up stacked 18650s with a 0.1Ω coil!

T

That's only 74 amps. I doubt that would even liquify the mech tube instantly.

 

[Jimi D.]

New from Hasbro ! The Cloud Chaser 3000 ! Kiddies, blow clouds bigger than your parents ! Impress your friends ! Even get suspended from School !

Mommy I want one !

 

[supertrunker]

But it uses alcohol as a diluent and dad drinks it all!

T

 

[Zealous]

Some are addicted to tobacco as a whole, some to the hand to mouth and some to the smoking sensation that are all missing with the standard NRTs.

Agreed. But in the OPs scenerio smoking no longer exists so people who take nicotine have never been smokers. So then he's questioning what other reasons someone might have for blowing big clouds if nicotine users are no longer vaping because it emulates smoking.

 

[Steamix]

If I wrote "I dropped my PV on my foot, it broke my toe." I'd get at least five posts saying "No. No You didn't. That didn't happen. PVs don't do that"...

Hush, don't say that. With all the regulation mania going on, they'll make us wear safety shoes while vaping

 

[Technohydra]

Cause it's fun and pisses off uptight dickwads?