HV Liquid My Way

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ddavelarsen

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You folks have given me so much in so little time I wanted to give back what little I can. I've been experiementing with high voltage liquid and seem to have hit a combination that works for me. Maybe it will for you too.

It's simple too; I use VG base and about 48% concentrated flavoring (FA or Lorann's, with some less-concentrated flavors balancing things out). Since flavoring is usually in PG, you end up with a bit more than 50/50 VG/PG. I'd like to increase the amount of VG because I think that would soften the TH even more but my experience suggests the flavoring needs to be that high to get through the voltage.

That's it, for what it's worth. If anyone needs some measuring I'll be happy to comply. I hope this is of some value to someone because you've all done so much for me. Thanks!
 

ddavelarsen

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Keep in mind this is at 6V or better; 48% flavoring is pretty minimal actually. As noted, I use FA or Lorann's for the main parts of this, balanced out with flavors from PA or even Capella's or Fairy's Finest. The less-concentrated flavors reduce the overall concentration quite a bit; it's not at all overwhelming -- for me anyway. Use it or not folks, that's your option. Just thought I'd share what works for me.
 

Switched

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Keep in mind this is at 6V or better; 48% flavoring is pretty minimal actually. As noted, I use FA or Lorann's for the main parts of this, balanced out with flavors from PA or even Capella's or Fairy's Finest. The less-concentrated flavors reduce the overall concentration quite a bit; it's not at all overwhelming -- for me anyway. Use it or not folks, that's your option. Just thought I'd share what works for me.
Huuuuuuuum, and you want to play with pure nic ????
 

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IN your other thread you were talking importing 99.9% nic from China. We told you unless you know what you are doing, not to go there.

Based strictly on your post count and the previous thread, it would be highly recommended that you start digesting some of these threads instead of offering what appears to be bogus advice. A high concentration of flavouring is 20... maybe 25%, and you are talking 48%.

FYI HV liquid's nicotine concentration is usually lower, and thus has nothing to do with flavouring. Furthermore, with HV liquids, it is often seen that there total flavour content is somewhat lower, rather than what you claim to be much higher.

You also stated that you had to go that high because of the some of the more subtle flavours used were masked by stronger flavours. That is also a simple extrapolation of using too much.

In closing if you are an experienced DIYer, I apologise. But to date you have indicated there is still much to learn. We are here to help!
 

ddavelarsen

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Well, don't be deceived by my post count here, I just don't come here often unless I need advice from people with other experience than is available to me otherwise. This isn't my 'home' forum though, admittedly.

I didn't say anything about nicotine content. That is up to each individual's requirements is it not? If you misconstrued 'base' as nic, that was my poor choice of words. 'Base' for me is unflavored content, simple as that.

As for the rest, what I described in my post above is based on several months of testing and stringent record keeping, along with testing by other vapers; this isn't 'bogus' advice, just not what you might 'expect.' The fact is, it works for me and for other HV vapers, better than the standard proportions you described. If in doubt, you might simply try it rather than just disregard a tested suggestion. In any event, no one has insisted here that anyone do anything. I offered my experience freely, frankly not expecting to be dissed out of hand.
 

Nikhil

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I'd still like to know which specific flavors you're using, I have very few flavorings that I could tolerate at that level. HV vaping generally uses liquid faster so each draw has more vapor and thus more flavor than usual, so HV specific liquids usually don't have more flavoring than standard as far as I know.
 

Switched

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Sorry for my presumptuousness. Out of the blue you surface with a question wrt importing 99.9% pure nic, and wondered how to mix it? Red flag!

A few posts later your HV flavouring recipe. It is only natural to question the validity of the post based on the "known" factors. That is all.

You are totally correct everyone is free to do what they please, and not do what they please. It just seems to me and probably to most who will respond, that 48% is more than a little over the top. But hey, what ever floats your boat.

WRT HV liquids, they are indeed normally at a lesser concentration of nic, by 4-6mg. Higher nic content is just not needed. The HV world is a totally different ball game, just as the LV world. Recipes are adjusted accordingly, for many many reasons.

WRT the nic comment: well let's just say that prior to this post you were wondering about cutting pure nic, and with this one sort of came off as an HV expert. I am neither.
 

ddavelarsen

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I'd still like to know which specific flavors you're using, I have very few flavorings that I could tolerate at that level. HV vaping generally uses liquid faster so each draw has more vapor and thus more flavor than usual, so HV specific liquids usually don't have more flavoring than standard as far as I know.
You know, I've been very dissatisfied with commercial HV liquid, which was why I started working on my own; it's not just because I'm cheap. DIY is not cheap, at least at a high level. My taste may be destroyed from too many decades of non-filter cigarettes; if your sense of taste is better then you are welcome to be happy with lower amounts. I can say from experience though, that a decent number of others have not had that actual experience with higher percentages of flavoring. Honestly, so far you guys have just resisted the whole thing and so far as I can tell, not tried it; what's the value of this? I don't understand, and I'm not trying to be a jerk.

Flavors I've used recently in no particular order or proportion: Lorran's; marshmallow, chocolate, toffee, butterscotch, butter rum, coffee. Flavour Art; all tobacco flavors, tiramisu, hazelnut. Perfumer's Apprentice; sweet cream, chocolate, caramel, peanut butter. I think there are more but I've been focused on working particular mixes more than generally experimenting.

I'm going to also point out before it becomes an issue, that when I'm mixing, I only mix flavors, I test them without nic, and when I find something that works I mix at least an ounce of just the flavoring. Then I use that to mix 6ml or so for vaping. So every recipe I post has always been just for flavoring, in percentages not drops or ml, with no mention of nic or other components. That is for individual vaper's decisions. Dan's calculator will help any DIYer who wishes to mix his own liquid; I don't assume someone won't take that responsibility. I don't use drops or ml, because drops are not accurate and ml assumes someone is going to make a specific amount of something. I figure people can do math. If not, they probably shouldn't be mixing, right?

The point is, any particular recipe depends on a balance of flavors, not just one. I posted one recipe here a while back that still works for me. I'm working on others but frankly not sure I'm going to bring them here. Argument for argument's sake is neither fulfilling for me nor helps to advance any cause. My post doesn't have anything to do with flavor recipes so much as a generalized approach to mixing for HV. That's all.
 

ddavelarsen

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Sorry for my presumptuousness. Out of the blue you surface with a question wrt importing 99.9% pure nic, and wondered how to mix it? Red flag!

A few posts later your HV flavouring recipe. It is only natural to question the validity of the post based on the "known" factors. That is all.

You are totally correct everyone is free to do what they please, and not do what they please. It just seems to me and probably to most who will respond, that 48% is more than a little over the top. But hey, what ever floats your boat.

WRT HV liquids, they are indeed normally at a lesser concentration of nic, by 4-6mg. Higher nic content is just not needed. The HV world is a totally different ball game, just as the LV world. Recipes are adjusted accordingly, for many many reasons.

WRT the nic comment: well let's just say that prior to this post you were wondering about cutting pure nic, and with this one sort of came off as an HV expert. I am neither.
Thanks, I think. :) I'm not a newbie, and I don't think I should follow the crowd. I never have. When "known factors" don't work I just try to solve my own problems and in this case was pleased with the solution. Guess that doesn't translate very well. Sorry if I offended.

I don't know everything; I hardly know enough to do what I'm trying to do. But that doesn't mean I don't just try to do it. As to the 'pure' nic thing, people telling me to be afraid isn't convincing. If people had always been afraid we'd all still be eating carrion. I'm willing to assume personal responsibility for my own actions; that should be sufficient for those who have something to add, to add it. That was why I came here with my question; my experience here has generally been somewhat more positive. That thread was anything but, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

As regards the percentage of flavoring, I mentioned above that I and others may have destroyed too many taste buds smoking analogs. That's a fact though, not an opinion. You don't know me, so I guess it's appropriate to question what I'm saying when it doesn't follow the 'expected' paradigm. But a better approach, for me anyway, is to test stuff before I go off being derogatory. That's why I keep my mouth shut, mostly. I don't think I know everything, by any stretch. But I do want to learn. I may be old, but I have continued learning with an open mind for all of those years and I've no intention of stopping that any time soon. It's paid off more often than not.

I think when you mentioned the nic level in HV liquid you're mostly referring to TH. That is a valid point and honestly one I had not considered. That's another place for me to work on this (though I didn't mention nicotine in my basic premise or any later post so far as I can tell; maybe I missed that part), and an aspect of my own liquid I'll address. Thanks, and I mean that.

Because it sticks in my craw so badly, I'm just going to say this. I hope you all take it as an honest and forthright statement, not an axe to grind. When I come here with my questions and with my successes, I expected to be met with open minds. That's not what I perceive here, and frankly I'm disappointed. But that's my problem, isn't it? My recommendation though, and you can take it for what it's worth, is to further your own lives and successes you will be better served to think before knowing; to experiment before deciding. This is not my 'native' forum, and the recent experience demonstrates why that is true. As a newbie I lurked in every forum I could find, reading and listening and trying to learn what I needed to begin to become successful vaping. The tenor of conversation here was not as pleasant as where I wound up, which is why my post count here is low. Honestly, the recent experience does not lead me to want to jack it up any. ECF generally has its own culture that works for a huge number of members, and that's not something anyone can discount. I have derived a lot of value from this forum. But it's not a friendly or always helpful environment. That's just contrary to my own nature. I'm far happier where people respect one another, and that's where my post count goes.

I do thank you all for the actual bits of useful information offered, and there has been some.
 

Switched

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I am sorry your experience here has not been pleasant, but you sure use a lot of jaw wagging to say nothing, and hence why folks might seem a little hostile.

You posted a recipe that works for you, an incomplete recipe I might add. It stated 48% flavouring, which to the community as a whole is way over the top. We don't know where you come from or what you know. That is sort of insignificant in a way and shouldn't matter.

Later in the thread you state that you do not mix 48% flavouring in your final recipe, but use it as flavouring. We are cool with that. But you still do not state at what % you mix it at in the final recipe.

So you see, you only posted a tidbit of information and expect folks to read your mind, well that is not about to happen, now is it. I believe your experience here would have been a little more pleasant if you would have been forthright in the first place.

Not to be condescending this is a recipe I posted.

Simple recipe - Buttery Nipple, num, num. 2/1 ratio Butterscotch and Irish cream

for 10 mls @ 24mg

48% 50mg PG nic = 4.8ml
20% VG = 2ml
7% PG = 0.7ml
1% PGA = 0.1ml
3% H2O = 0.3ml
14 % Butterscotch = 1.4ml
7% Irish Cream = 0.7ml

The important aspect of this one to increase or decrease flavour is to maintain the ratio, which is mentioned in the opening line. Something Dan's calculator will do as well.

Most DIYers also know that if you need to decrease your nic level, it is usually with PG, or they will ask. Most not all, around here have settled on a base of 80/20 PG/VG, for good hemoginy in the widest of applications.
 
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Switched

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You know, I've been very dissatisfied with commercial HV liquid, which was why I started working on my own; it's not just because I'm cheap. DIY is not cheap, at least at a high level. My taste may be destroyed from too many decades of non-filter cigarettes; if your sense of taste is better then you are welcome to be happy with lower amounts. I can say from experience though, that a decent number of others have not had that actual experience with higher percentages of flavoring. Honestly, so far you guys have just resisted the whole thing and so far as I can tell, not tried it; what's the value of this? I don't understand, and I'm not trying to be a jerk.

SNIP*
I do not know who all sells them. I have tried Nhaler's and yes I have been disappointed. I managed to salvage them by mixing his 12mg (too much VG, flavourless liquid) with 24mg good "stock" liquid (same flavour) to give me 18mg which I vape during the evening.

Wrt dead taste buds, after a couple of months they come back better than ever. I smoked for 40+ years and not only is vaping better for me than smoking, I no longer use salt :)

Bolded text:

That is pretty presumptuous don't you think. Many have tried higher percentages, they are just as bad as not enough. For example: Fa's tobacco flavours do not come into their own until about 6%. To some this is high. There is a thread wrt this. I and several others use from 10/12 - 15%. Lower than 6% is indeed sort of yucky and repulsive, but above they do get better. Some above 12% start to turn once again. So you see some if not most of us have indeed tried.

Mind you taste is very subjective.
 

ddavelarsen

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Okay, that's more like it, thanks. The text you bolded, and I admit I wasn't clear, was about the testers I used when working on my HV approach. Not meant to be a generalized statement. Communication, regardless how hard I try to be clear - hence a lot of jawing not saying much - does not always work well. I appreciate you being straightforward; that works for me.

People always say that taste buds will return and to some extent mine have - but not to a great extent. And I use a boatload of salt still. Different people, and based on that perhaps 48% flavoring would be over the top for you. And many, many others. That's cool, sorry I mentioned it. :) Really. Please don't give me a hassle about using 48% flavoring in the demonstration below. That's what I have calculated at hand because that's what I vape. It's a lot of typing to break it down for more 'common' usage, though I'd be happy to so that too. But I'm getting the bum's rush to get out of here and start doing domestic stuff now and don't have the time.

Okay, in the interest of demonstration I'll show you how I make my HV Peanut Butter Brownie. I like it, not for everyone.

PB Brownie Flavoring - 30 ml (1 oz)

PA Peanut Butter 63% 19 ml
Lorann Toffee 13% 4 ml
Lorann Chocolate 23% 7 ml

HV PB Brownie Juice - 6 ml - 48mg (demonstration only, that's what I vape; adjust proportion to vaper's own specs)

100mg VG Base 48% 2.9 ml
0 nic VG Base 4% .2 ml
PB Brownie Flavoring 48% 2.9 ml

This is taken from the notes I use to mix. When I presented the basic approach initially I did it assuming others would do this on their own. That's my bad, I think it's part of the culture here to give measurements, that I should learn to adopt. I will.

For what it's worth, the note I use when making juice is replicated below (the 48mg). I'll lay it out of more common strengths too. Note that any screwy-looking numbers, and there are a couple, are due to rounding.

To the extent anyone thinks it would be valuable, this would be straightforward to do for different amounts of flavoring too and I'd be happy to replicate that.

Before someone mentions it, different flavorings have different strengths; this is very generalized and would naturally be adjusted for immediate conditions. That's why I don't specify this level of detail in the first place.

Liquid - ml by Percent - 48mg

6 ml - 48 mg
100mg Base 48% 2.9 ml
0 nic Base 4% 0.2 ml
Flavoring 48% 2.9 ml

15 ml - 48 mg
100mg Base 48% 7.2 ml
0 nic Base 4% 0.6 ml
Flavoring 48% 7.2 ml

30 ml - 48 mg
100mg Base 48% 14.4 ml
0 nic Base 4% 1.2 ml
Flavoring 48% 14.4 ml

60 ml - 48 mg
100mg Base 48% 28.8 ml
0 nic Base 4% 2.4 ml
Flavoring 48% 28.8 ml

Liquid - ml by Percent - 36mg

6 ml - 36 mg
100mg Base 36% 2.2 ml
0 nic Base 16% 1.0 ml
Flavoring 48% 2.9 ml

15 ml - 36 mg
100mg Base 36% 5.4 ml
0 nic Base 16% 2.4 ml
Flavoring 48% 7.2 ml

30 ml - 36 mg
100mg Base 36% 10.8 ml
0 nic Base 16% 4.8 ml
Flavoring 48% 14.4 ml

60 ml - 36 mg
100mg Base 36% 21.6 ml
0 nic Base 16% 9.6 ml
Flavoring 48% 28.8 ml

Liquid - ml by Percent - 24mg

6 ml - 24 mg
100mg Base 19% 1.1 ml
0 nic Base 33% 2.0 ml
Flavoring 48% 2.9 ml

15 ml - 24 mg
100mg Base 19% 2.8 ml
0 nic Base 33% 5.0 ml
Flavoring 48% 7.2 ml

30 ml - 24 mg
100mg Base 19% 5.7 ml
0 nic Base 33% 9.9 ml
Flavoring 48% 14.4 ml

60 ml - 24 mg
100mg Base 19% 11.4 ml
0 nic Base 33% 19.8 ml
Flavoring 48% 28.8 ml

Liquid - ml by Percent - 18mg

6 ml - 18 mg
100mg Base 18% 1.1 ml
0 nic Base 34% 2.0 ml
Flavoring 48% 2.9 ml

15 ml - 18 mg
100mg Base 18% 2.7 ml
0 nic Base 34% 5.1 ml
Flavoring 48% 7.2 ml

30 ml - 18 mg
100mg Base 18% 5.4 ml
0 nic Base 34% 10.2 ml
Flavoring 48% 14.4 ml

60 ml - 18 mg
100mg Base 18% 10.8 ml
0 nic Base 34% 20.4 ml
Flavoring 48% 28.8 ml

Liquid - ml by Percent - 12mg

6 ml - 12 mg
100mg Base 12% 0.7 ml
0 nic Base 40% 2.4 ml
Flavoring 48% 2.9 ml

15 ml - 12 mg
100mg Base 12% 1.8 ml
0 nic Base 40% 6.0 ml
Flavoring 48% 7.2 ml

30 ml - 12 mg
100mg Base 12% 3.6 ml
0 nic Base 40% 12.0 ml
Flavoring 48% 14.4 ml

60 ml - 12 mg
100mg Base 12% 7.2 ml
0 nic Base 34% 24.0 ml
Flavoring 48% 28.8 ml
 

Switched

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VG will definitely take away from the flavour (mask). Are you allergic to PG?

PG will also assist with TH in comparison with VG. This is also seen for low mg users who strictly use VG for allergenic reasons, complain of lack of TH at lower levels. PGA will only go so far.

How are your attys holding up? It is my belief (tested and proven) that high concentration of VG to cause pre-mature failure. To some, this is insignificant. High flavouring % will cause the same. Once again to some this is insignificant.

The are a lot of variables in play here, and hence why the one size fits all becomes redundant. From atomiser resistance to voltage and delicateness of certain liquids/flavours.

How many mls a day do you vape? Once again to many, 48mg would be excessively high.
 

ddavelarsen

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Those are good points. I use a lot of VG to reduce the TH from the high voltage, and it does probably go a long way toward reducing the flavor. Tends to make it a bit sweeter too.

I actually have good luck with attys. Mostly been using 510 cartos lately, and getting four or five fills on them. Haven't had a regular 510 fail that I would think was premature. I don't use LR attys anymore but I bet the skanky taste might have something to do with the liquid I'm using. Good thought.

I vape about 2 ml per day. 48mg is the only thing that's made me able to vape successfully; 36 let me know it could work but I vaped continually there. 48 works for me but I know it freaks a lot of people out. :)
 

Nikhil

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I never said anything about my taste buds being better, nor was I resisting your recipe. I just wanted to know which ones were good at that level as I might be passing over certain flavorings because I feel they're not effective. I have even tried dripping pure flavoring with some of my flavors that I felt were weak (such as PA's PB or FA's Whipped Cream) and they were still not particularly strong.

It's very possible that HV vaping destroys more of the top note flavoring chemicals, but that I do not know. That's why I say 'as far as I know' to avoid people misconstruing my statements as end all be all (no, I don't know everything).

You know, I've been very dissatisfied with commercial HV liquid, which was why I started working on my own; it's not just because I'm cheap. DIY is not cheap, at least at a high level. My taste may be destroyed from too many decades of non-filter cigarettes; if your sense of taste is better then you are welcome to be happy with lower amounts. I can say from experience though, that a decent number of others have not had that actual experience with higher percentages of flavoring. Honestly, so far you guys have just resisted the whole thing and so far as I can tell, not tried it; what's the value of this? I don't understand, and I'm not trying to be a jerk.

Flavors I've used recently in no particular order or proportion: Lorran's; marshmallow, chocolate, toffee, butterscotch, butter rum, coffee. Flavour Art; all tobacco flavors, tiramisu, hazelnut. Perfumer's Apprentice; sweet cream, chocolate, caramel, peanut butter. I think there are more but I've been focused on working particular mixes more than generally experimenting.

I'm going to also point out before it becomes an issue, that when I'm mixing, I only mix flavors, I test them without nic, and when I find something that works I mix at least an ounce of just the flavoring. Then I use that to mix 6ml or so for vaping. So every recipe I post has always been just for flavoring, in percentages not drops or ml, with no mention of nic or other components. That is for individual vaper's decisions. Dan's calculator will help any DIYer who wishes to mix his own liquid; I don't assume someone won't take that responsibility. I don't use drops or ml, because drops are not accurate and ml assumes someone is going to make a specific amount of something. I figure people can do math. If not, they probably shouldn't be mixing, right?

The point is, any particular recipe depends on a balance of flavors, not just one. I posted one recipe here a while back that still works for me. I'm working on others but frankly not sure I'm going to bring them here. Argument for argument's sake is neither fulfilling for me nor helps to advance any cause. My post doesn't have anything to do with flavor recipes so much as a generalized approach to mixing for HV. That's all.
 
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