I am totally stumped :(

[Switched]

Why once current is applied to a pair of repelling magnets do they then attract each other, regardless of which way we orient them in the future?

I have made several magnetic switches that work fine, but I will be bamned if I can't make this particular one work Anyone have an explanation for this?

 

[asdaq]

Perhaps the current caused arcing which heated the magnets and thus reduced the magnetism of one or both? Have you checked both against new magnets?

 

[Switched]

Seems that they demagnetize themselves as they are totally toast It has happened to 2 sets

 

[asdaq]

Heat does kill them, are they bring used as the switch contacts?

 

[Switched]

Yup they are. As stated they worked (the set up) fine on 2 other mods, that's why I am perplexed.

 

[asdaq]

I think the tolerances are slightly off on the third mod so that the magnets are just askew enough to have a very small contact area that increases the likelihood of arcing. If it isn't arcing then there is extra resistance that is heating the magnets. You could try putting a small flat piece of thin steel spring in between them to absorb he heat which would stick to one or the other, or possibly flip the battery as the cathode side is more susceptible to arcing and that might fix it.

Could you post a pic or a diagram?

 

[Switched]

That might explain it. Which side is the cathode side? They are rare earth magnets and one side has a red dot on them. I never paid attention to that in the past so I am unsure. Thanks for all the help. I'll try to add some pics tomorow.

 

[cadcoke5]

Different types of magnets have different abilities to retain their magnetism when they get hot. That could easily be the cause of your problems.

Joe Dunfee

 

[asdaq]

Cathode is the negative current, but come to think of it this is a heat problem between the two magnets so it doesn't really matter which side it is coming from. Another fix would be to apply a very small amount of oil (could be vegetable) to the contacts to prevent arcing. PetarK does this with his Vaper, although I don't really like the idea of adding oil or noalox to switches as then it can combine with dust and be more to clean later. A sealed switch would be a different matter.

 

[Chip_]

Why once current is applied to a pair of repelling magnets do they then attract each other, regardless of which way we orient them in the future?

I have made several magnetic switches that work fine, but I will be bamned if I can't make this particular one work Anyone have an explanation for this?

Something else is wrong. What you are saying is impossible. All magnets have a north and a south. There is no way around this.
Also you cannot make permanent magnets by applying a current to them. You make permanent magnets by immersing them in a very intense electric field.

So when you say they attract regardless of orientation, - well this is impossible. Because one side is always north and the other side always south. In other words orientation should cause an attraction or if reversed it should cause a repel.

Perhaps it would help if you posted a picture of your setup.

 

[asdaq]

If one got neutralized it would just be a lump of metal that is mildly ferritic. The other could be magnetic and there would be a weak attraction.

 

[DaveP]

If one got neutralized it would just be a lump of metal that is mildly ferritic. The other could be magnetic and there would be a weak attraction.

That could be verified by testing them against non-magnetic ferrous metal. One may have been neutralized. You may be on to something.

 

[Switched]

Cathode is the negative current, but come to think of it this is a heat problem between the two magnets so it doesn't really matter which side it is coming from. Another fix would be to apply a very small amount of oil (could be vegetable) to the contacts to prevent arcing. PetarK does this with his Vaper, although I don't really like the idea of adding oil or noalox to switches as then it can combine with dust and be more to clean later. A sealed switch would be a different matter.

Thanks you all for your replies to this dilema

As stated 2 switches work fine this one doesn't. Wrt design parameters the are the same with one caveat the orientation oof the pos pole. I no longer have the devices where this switch was used (can't verify the polarity) but to this day they are still functioning flawlessly, that is why I am totally perpexed with this one?

Something else is wrong. What you are saying is impossible. All magnets have a north and a south. There is no way around this.
Also you cannot make permanent magnets by applying a current to them. You make permanent magnets by immersing them in a very intense electric field.

So when you say they attract regardless of orientation, - well this is impossible. Because one side is always north and the other side always south. In other words orientation should cause an attraction or if reversed it should cause a repel.

Perhaps it would help if you posted a picture of your setup.

I do not know enough about electrical fields and magnetism to argue what happened. Perhaps I explained it wrong.

One magnet is permanently inserted into the activation button, the other is inserted into a delrin insulator. The one in the insulator becomes demagnetized after a couple of activation. As someone else has posted in this thread, there is still a ferric attraction contained in the magnet. The 3 magnets I tested are toast and no longer attract to each other, nor do they repel each other. When checked with the magnet in the switch, yes there is an attraction but not the same attraction that we are accustomed to with REMs.

If one got neutralized it would just be a lump of metal that is mildly ferritic. The other could be magnetic and there would be a weak attraction.

That could be verified by testing them against non-magnetic ferrous metal. One may have been neutralized. You may be on to something.

Yup, hence why I was stumped.

 

[Switched]

Asdaq,

You have been a source of great help. Using a coupler is not something I wish to do either, for the stated reasons. Arching is not evident but I found out this morning that the mag in the switch has it's neg end exposed. This afternoon I will mfr a new button and using both pos as switching surfaces, and post my findings. As stated, mag switches are not uncommon, proper orientation of the magnets could be. There is no evidence of arching on the magnets (not saying it isn't happening) hence why I posted this thread as I am totally stumped.

All in all it will be a learning experience for all

 

[tenshi]

Why once current is applied to a pair of repelling magnets do they then attract each other, regardless of which way we orient them in the future?

I have made several magnetic switches that work fine, but I will be bamned if I can't make this particular one work Anyone have an explanation for this?

By any chance are you talking about the Poldiac button? Just in case you are, it helps to put the first magnet in, make sure it's sitting flat, then put a magnet on the bottom on the outside of the tube that attracts it to be in the right position and then drop it in through the top. If not, just ignore me hehe.

 

[Switched]

 

[asdaq]

Glad it is sorted Switcher, and good to see the design in the video. I think the delrin magnet was slightly off and not flat. One thing, magnets have a North and South, but this only really matters if one is building a compass. The electronic circuit has a positive and negative and the two pairs don't really have a correlation. Your switch would be good for the droplet of oil applied between the magnets as it is pretty well closed up, and it looks easy to wipe clean.

You mentioned that there is a 1/8" gap, but do the magnets actually touch to complete the circuit?

 

[Switched]

Glad it is sorted Switcher, and good to see the design in the video. I think the delrin magnet was slightly off and not flat. One thing, magnets have a North and South, but this only really matters if one is building a compass. The electronic circuit has a positive and negative and the two pairs don't really have a correlation. Your switch would be good for the droplet of oil applied between the magnets as it is pretty well closed up, and it looks easy to wipe clean.

You mentioned that there is a 1/8" gap, but do the magnets actually touch to complete the circuit?

Yes they do. As previously stated it stumped me, what happened God only knows but it is working as expected, that is why I was so flabbergasted when it didn't. Cheers sir

 

[cadcoke5]

I imagine you are trying to avoid any electronic complications, but using a Mosfet may be the best solution. Any time you make-and-break an electrical connection that has a lot of current, you tend to induce arcing.

The Mosfet allows you to use a small switch, that only has to carry a small amount of current. This small switch is what controls the Mosfet, which carries the heavy current. Madvapes carries a low cost Mosfet kit.

Joe Dunfee

 

[Switched]

Understood Joe. In this particular case the customer wanted an all mechanical mod, many still do. I understand the principle of using a gate. On the other hand let's take the GG for example where some switches are made or available with magnets vice a spring.

That being said, this particular device has caused me to reflect on the viability of using magnets for a switch in the future.