I don't understand why people worry so much about "potential" dangers of things. I don't know of any product or substance or activity that has no potential dangers. There is nothing that is 100% safe. At least 16 studies have been done on e-cigs and Dr Michael Siegel from Boston University wrote a review of the studies. He concluded that e-cigs are at least 1000 times safer than smoking.
I don't believe e-cigs are safe.........
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Seriously, do you know how many people die while lying in a bed? I think we need to ban beds, they're obviously bad for your health. I saw this one study once that said that most people die while lying down. Anyone caught lying down should have to pay higher taxes than the rest of us.
Bad science is a source of endless entertainment
Bad science is a source of endless entertainment
Folks are overprotective and sue happy.
Considering Propolene Glycol(80% of e-liquid) has been studied since the ~1940's as a system of pumping the fog into hospital ventilation systems as a anti bacterial, and later tested in massive clouds by OSHA for effects and found that after inundating individuals in the clouds for weeks on end, the effects were minimal and short term.
Likewise we know the adverse and positive effects from Nicotine (3 to 5%, of e-liquid) equally as well, and are actually finding many positives for brain health and memory, as we go along. Not to forget that it has been under scrutiny for being in cigarettes for decades and been linked really to nothing except addiction if used in high levels. Like caffeine it could effect blood psi and other ill effects for heart patients, and that is offset with positives for mental patients.
Lastly Flavorings (3 to 5% of e-liquid). These are food additives, and of little effect unless allergies persist.
(the biggest danger is if you burn the components or if a cartomizer polyfill gets singed)
...........
Kind of off topic. I've been sort of a dare devil/thrill seeker since I could walk. If it had wheels I pushed it beyond limits, and still do at age 56. Rode crotch rocket motorcycles for 40+ years, and now the want me to be seat belted and airbagged in a car? HA! The irony is hysterical. My work consisted of risks when doing construction(for a number of years) with heights and other dangers.
I ate wrong, partied hard, and was under high stress for many decades.
I have since curbed and stopped most things deemed possibly lethal, but just driving a car normally will kill you if you don't watch others (and put down the cell phone).
Now I don't inflict my lifestyle on others, but there are those out there who are afraid to do the speed limit when driving and fear living in their homes in general, and have the alarm system on as you read. (ADT fear mongers well).
I guess what I'm trying to say is be safe, but don't get misled by all the fear mongering that is on TV commercials for things wrong with you and for lawyers trying to make a buck.
Live a little, and be safe, don't fear everything.
Considering Propolene Glycol(80% of e-liquid) has been studied since the ~1940's as a system of pumping the fog into hospital ventilation systems as a anti bacterial, and later tested in massive clouds by OSHA for effects and found that after inundating individuals in the clouds for weeks on end, the effects were minimal and short term.
Likewise we know the adverse and positive effects from Nicotine (3 to 5%, of e-liquid) equally as well, and are actually finding many positives for brain health and memory, as we go along. Not to forget that it has been under scrutiny for being in cigarettes for decades and been linked really to nothing except addiction if used in high levels. Like caffeine it could effect blood psi and other ill effects for heart patients, and that is offset with positives for mental patients.
Lastly Flavorings (3 to 5% of e-liquid). These are food additives, and of little effect unless allergies persist.
(the biggest danger is if you burn the components or if a cartomizer polyfill gets singed)
...........
Kind of off topic. I've been sort of a dare devil/thrill seeker since I could walk. If it had wheels I pushed it beyond limits, and still do at age 56. Rode crotch rocket motorcycles for 40+ years, and now the want me to be seat belted and airbagged in a car? HA! The irony is hysterical. My work consisted of risks when doing construction(for a number of years) with heights and other dangers.
I ate wrong, partied hard, and was under high stress for many decades.
I have since curbed and stopped most things deemed possibly lethal, but just driving a car normally will kill you if you don't watch others (and put down the cell phone).
Now I don't inflict my lifestyle on others, but there are those out there who are afraid to do the speed limit when driving and fear living in their homes in general, and have the alarm system on as you read. (ADT fear mongers well).
I guess what I'm trying to say is be safe, but don't get misled by all the fear mongering that is on TV commercials for things wrong with you and for lawyers trying to make a buck.
Live a little, and be safe, don't fear everything.
Thanks for a gentle reminder that many of us can use. I'm using vaping right now as a tool to quit the analogs, but I plan to quit (or at least take a hiatus from) vaping as well, because right now we are TTC. While vaping does appear to be a much safer alternative than analogs, and is quite enjoyable, the ideal would be not to use any of this stuff at all. I like that vaping doesn't linger with you, but I've been taking my habit outside at work just as I would with smoking, simply because I don't feel like there's enough information out there yet about how many invisible, odorless chemicals might linger after vaping.
Lol made me remember one from my helpdesk support days, when a 'dippy' call came through we'd sometimes write PICNIC on the call sheet for the tech, Problem In Chair, Not In Computer
That's a good one ... I like PIBCAK as well ... Problem in between chair and keyboard
And even though I'm a techy ... I'm a PIBCAK as well sometimes
Jan
I myself do have an allergy to PG when I take in enough of it at once. I get severe asthma attacks if I vape straight PG (on straight VG as I type). I also get the attacks from some commercially made cakes because some contain a lot of PG to keep it moist for a long time. It's tough to say if second hand PG vapor poses an actual risk to folks like myself. I don't actually know anyone else who vapes. I'll need to try sitting with a group of PG vapers in the interest of science.
Pensioners driving at 11mph are the bane of my life, they cause many many accidents, usually in powder blue nissan micra's. I'm not a speed freak, I drive at the speed limit always, and having to slam on the brakes because one of the aforementioned pulls out in front at those speeds is not good for my stress levels!
While we know what liquid consists of as far as it's individual chemical components, what we don't know is the interaction of those chemicals in various mixes, as well as the interactiion of that mix as it relates to flesh and blood ..
An interesting post I read earlier advocated the FDA step in just for testing requirements .. as well, I myself would never consider a liquid that came from China .. and would hope that vendors would clearly indicate if their wares did .. although all liquid from any source could be extended with whatever substance and who would know since there is no standard ..
These are the bare facts, whether or not we want to accept them .. let's never forget the legacy of the analog and it's past history .. let me quote big tobacco .. sound familiar .. ??
"Recent reports on experiments with mice have given wide publicity to a theory that cigarette smoking is in some way linked with lung cancer in human beings.
Although conducted by doctors of professional standing, these experiments are not regarded as conclusive in the field of cancer research. However, we do not believe that any serious medical research, even though its results are inconclusive should be disregarded or lightly dismissed.
At the same time, we feel it is in the public interest to call attention to the fact that eminent doctors and research scientists have publicly questioned the claimed significance of these experiments.
Distinguished authorities point out:
1. That medical research of recent years indicated many possible causes of lung cancer.
2. That there is no agreement among the authorities regarding what the cause is.
3. That there is no proof that cigarette smoking is one of the causes"
An interesting post I read earlier advocated the FDA step in just for testing requirements .. as well, I myself would never consider a liquid that came from China .. and would hope that vendors would clearly indicate if their wares did .. although all liquid from any source could be extended with whatever substance and who would know since there is no standard ..
These are the bare facts, whether or not we want to accept them .. let's never forget the legacy of the analog and it's past history .. let me quote big tobacco .. sound familiar .. ??
"Recent reports on experiments with mice have given wide publicity to a theory that cigarette smoking is in some way linked with lung cancer in human beings.
Although conducted by doctors of professional standing, these experiments are not regarded as conclusive in the field of cancer research. However, we do not believe that any serious medical research, even though its results are inconclusive should be disregarded or lightly dismissed.
At the same time, we feel it is in the public interest to call attention to the fact that eminent doctors and research scientists have publicly questioned the claimed significance of these experiments.
Distinguished authorities point out:
1. That medical research of recent years indicated many possible causes of lung cancer.
2. That there is no agreement among the authorities regarding what the cause is.
3. That there is no proof that cigarette smoking is one of the causes"
How do we know e-cig vapor doesn't contain acrolein?
Usually, in the lab, I make it by adding sodium bisulfate to glycerin; and heating it over a burner and collecting it using a distillation apparatus. However, acrolein is simply an aldehyde resulting from the removal of a water molecule from an alcohol (in this case glycerol, which is an alcohol). Is it possible that passing glycerol over a red-hot wire could create a certain amount of acrolein?
For example, one synthesis simply heats glycerol in the presence of iron as a catalyst. Does the wire of the atomizer contain any iron?
Glycerol is just one ingredient that we know about, but we really do NOT know what happens when it is heated and you can't measure acrolein formation from exhaled vapor. Guess why? Because the acrolein combines with water in your lungs to re-form glycerin. So you breathe in acrolein, and breath out glycerin; and you can't detect what happened in exhaled vapor.
I'm not saying this actually happens, I'm just saying that it /could/ happen; and something similar could happen with any ingredient we think we know about when it is passed across a red hot wire.
Simple fifth grade experiment. Take sulfur and iron filings and put them in a crucible. Now heat them while stirring and -- shazam -- you get a whole new substance -- iron sulfate. Heat changes things.
Again, I'm not saying that definitely anything bad emanates from an e-cig; just saying that there are limits to the knowledge imho. I'm sure it is safer than an analog; but wouldn't call it safe.
Usually, in the lab, I make it by adding sodium bisulfate to glycerin; and heating it over a burner and collecting it using a distillation apparatus. However, acrolein is simply an aldehyde resulting from the removal of a water molecule from an alcohol (in this case glycerol, which is an alcohol). Is it possible that passing glycerol over a red-hot wire could create a certain amount of acrolein?
For example, one synthesis simply heats glycerol in the presence of iron as a catalyst. Does the wire of the atomizer contain any iron?
Glycerol is just one ingredient that we know about, but we really do NOT know what happens when it is heated and you can't measure acrolein formation from exhaled vapor. Guess why? Because the acrolein combines with water in your lungs to re-form glycerin. So you breathe in acrolein, and breath out glycerin; and you can't detect what happened in exhaled vapor.
I'm not saying this actually happens, I'm just saying that it /could/ happen; and something similar could happen with any ingredient we think we know about when it is passed across a red hot wire.
Simple fifth grade experiment. Take sulfur and iron filings and put them in a crucible. Now heat them while stirring and -- shazam -- you get a whole new substance -- iron sulfate. Heat changes things.
Again, I'm not saying that definitely anything bad emanates from an e-cig; just saying that there are limits to the knowledge imho. I'm sure it is safer than an analog; but wouldn't call it safe.
The only thing we really don't know about are the flavorings. We do know all about nicotine, study after study has been done on PG, there are studies on VG.
Flavorings that are mean to be ingested but that are vaped is probably the only unknown. That can be resolved by vaping unflavored. But given the small percentage of flavoring in juice it's nothing I'm particularly concerned with.
Flavorings that are mean to be ingested but that are vaped is probably the only unknown. That can be resolved by vaping unflavored. But given the small percentage of flavoring in juice it's nothing I'm particularly concerned with.
Do a board search. It's been covered. If you have concerns, I wouldn't do it. I researched extensively before I started vaping and I'm fine that vaping is something I'm comfortable doing. People need to do that themselves before they even start.
I'm sitting here with a PV right next to me, so I'm obviously not concerned enough to not take a toke .. however, I still think the jury is out on the safety issue .. interaction of substances injested thru heat ..
The jury is out on everything. Life is a big unknown. Name one thing that the jury is in on that has been deemed completely safe?
I'm going to be an overzealous folk and say that breathing the air in Los Angeles is probably more dangerous than your kid inhaling some second-hand e-cig vapor.
Hmm, acrolein wasn't that what they invented for chemical weapons? Nasty stuff, you could still test for it though you don't need to use a human to suck on the pv
Getting back to the kid problem, it sounds like a simple case of allergy - probably to flavour. Try vaping unflavoured and try switching between PG and VG (and perhaps PEG 400, although I hate that). Just don't panic and scare away all the smokers who could benefit from vaping, or give the anti-everythings ammunition (however faulty) in their fight against vaping...
A control group study isn't going to happen. For now I'm satisfied with the qualitative evidence available from my own experience and others on ECF.
1 - I can breathe again.
2 - I can taste again.
3 - My throat doesn't feel like a gravel road traversed by a caravan of vikings.
4 - I can exercise again, and without weezing.
5 - I have more energy that I ever remember having.
I'm more than satisfied with my own case study.
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