I guess the "regulations" are starting.

[zoiDman]

How should I know? I'm not a chemist! The bottle says 25mg, or 24mg, so I guess that's either 2.5% or 2.4%; considering that 90%-95% of WTA is nicotine, that's all I need to know. I was mixing it as 10% of my ejuice; now that I've started reducing, it's 9%, and next month, 8%, and so on, until I'm either free of it, or have cravings; if I have cravings, I'll go back 1 percentage point, and the next month, only reduce by .5 a percentage point. that's why I said it would take me at least 10 months to be free of it.

But yes, saying something like "they need to find a way to not need it" is EXACTLY what the smoke nazis have been saying for decades -- they've never smoked, so they have no idea what they're talking about. Those who've never needed or used WTA have no idea what they're talking about either, so it's exactly the same thing.

At this point, you're just nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking, since you've never needed it.

Andria

Nit-Picking? Isn't the Amount "WTA" that person takes in the Most Critical thing there is? Doesn't it gets back to that Sitting Around Eating Margarine Analogy that you made? Occasional use may be GRAS. But 24-7 may Not.

I'm sorry if you Don't Like someone saying that people who are Dependent on "WTA" to stay off cigarettes Should seek other alternatives in the Future.

But I think it would be Very Disingenuous of a person to Say that WTA is going to be Allowed by the FDA when they Feel it is Not.

If a Trade Organization like AEMSA , who Have Chemists, have Not Included WTA in their Standard, I see Little Hope in the FDA Including WTA in theirs.

 

[caramel]

My Only suggest to those that you just Mentioned is they Should try and Find someway to Stay Smoke-Free without WTA.

Because I Don't see "WTA" being an FDA Approved ingredient in e-liquids sold in an FDA Regulated e-liquid Market.

That would be funny, not allowing you to put tobacco in something they regulate like tobacco?

 

[zoiDman]

That would be funny, not allowing you to put tobacco in something they regulate like tobacco?

You do have a Point caramel.

LOL

 

[beckdg]

At what Concentration?

As an herbal extract the answer is likely to be all variables.

Sent from my device.

 

[Oberon75]

Yet Pharmaceutical will be exempt
Do they really think Nic gum or patches are any different? No they already get their piece of that pie.

Everything that is something comes from something else. There is no such thing as Created, only modified.

Vaccines are not created nor are synthetics. they are simply existing things combined/extracted/modified to suit a need.

There is no need to deny Nicotine comes from Nightshade plants.
There is also no need to call Nicotine Tobacco when as a whole, it is no longer Tobacco.

The Whole Game is stupid.

I just dug up something hilarious about Nic gum. Pretty interesting if this is true.

Long-Term Nicorette Gum
Users Losing Hair and Teeth

by John R. Polito

http://whyquit.com/pr/120108.html

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[Tyrawr]

So how Many of these Alkaloids are Present in the "WTA" you buy?

And Everything Else in Post #92?

ETA: I won't even go into the Topic of Whether or Not there is a limit to How Many/Much of the Alkaloids can be "Safely" Inhaled?

Because I'm not sure if Anyone knows?

And Nobody seems to know How Many or How Much they are Inhaling Anyway.

At what exact concentration are these alkaloids present in, say, one camel filter? A pack of Reds?

How is the safety of this ratio determined? How many cigarettes will have to be smoked before the ratio becomes unsafe? How do additives affect this balance?

Can you give me a complete chemical rundown, in exact measurements, of your intake from vaping in, say, the last hour?

I am having a very hard time understanding where you are coming from. No dis-respect intended.. but without going further, can you see the hypocrisy and rational pit-falls of the approach? I'm not even talking about AEMSA, but the whole angle. Is there a reason that you seem to have developed such a negative stance on WTA's? Depending on the vendor, there seems to be much more solid research, development, refinement, and testing (in every aspect I can think of) put into WTAs than most any "non-WTA" juice that I have been exposed to. Just curious You seem rather passionate about the topic.

 

[zoiDman]

At what exact concentration are these alkaloids present in, say, one camel filter? A pack of Reds?

How is the safety of this ratio determined? How many cigarettes will have to be smoked before the ratio becomes unsafe? How do additives affect this balance?

Can you give me a complete chemical rundown, in exact measurements, of your intake from vaping in, say, the last hour?

I am having a very hard time understanding where you are coming from. No dis-respect intended.. but without going further, can you see the hypocrisy and rational pit-falls of the approach? I'm not even talking about AEMSA, but the whole angle. Is there a reason that you seem to have developed such a negative stance on WTA's? Depending on the vendor, there seems to be much more solid research, development, refinement, and testing (in every aspect I can think of) put into WTAs than most any "non-WTA" juice that I have been exposed to. Just curious You seem rather passionate about the topic.

Hey I'm just the one who said that it was My Opinion that the FDA was not going to Include "WTA" in the list of Approved ingredients for an e-Liquid.

Not say'n I agree with it. Not saying I Don't.

But what I do find Interesting is that someone would Buy an e-Liquid that contains "WTA" and not want to Know a Little about a few of the items Listed in Post #92?

I'm mean you are Paying Top Dollar for something. Wouldn't you at least want to know What you are Buying?

 

[VapinWolf]

I honestly believe, outside of BT, the FDA will not approve nicotine in liquid. Just my gut feeling, hope I am wrong.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[zoiDman]

I honestly believe, outside of BT, the FDA will not approve nicotine in liquid. Just my gut feeling, hope I am wrong.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I think Anyone will be able to Sell e-Liquids that Contain Nicotine. Anyone, that is, who can Afford to comply with All the City, County, State and of Course the Federal Regulations.

And the Associated Cost of doing Face-2-Face Sales.

 

[AndriaD]

I honestly believe, outside of BT, the FDA will not approve nicotine in liquid. Just my gut feeling, hope I am wrong.

If that were true, then they'd be looking at a LOT of lawsuits -- due to the fact that there is nicotine in a wide range of OTC NRT -- because if it's safe in ANY OTC product, then it's safe in all of them. I'm pretty sure they're keeping that in mind. Most of the mom n pop places couldn't afford it, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Njoy and the bigger ejuice makers could. Wouldn't surprise me if Njoy + big ejuice vendors spearheaded a class action suit against them, which would mean that all the juice vendors could play.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

But what I do find Interesting is that someone would Buy an e-Liquid that contains "WTA" and not want to Know a Little about a few of the items Listed in Post #92?

I'm mean you are Paying Top Dollar for something. Wouldn't you at least want to know What you are Buying?

I do know a little about them. I know that WTA is 90%-95% nicotine, and the other 5%-10% is comprised of all those other things I mentioned; I know that the bottle of WTA says 24mg or 25mg, 90%-95% of which is nicotine. And I know that it works. That's all I need to know.

Andria

 

[Rossum]

I'm sorry Andria. But I just Don't see the FDA approving WTA as an Approved e-Liquid Ingredient.

Sometimes we just Need to Move On. And start Dealing with what Is Going to Happen. Instead of Discussing what Should or Shouldn't Happen.

From a pragmatic perspective, it's simple: If you need or want WTA, stock up now while you still can.

Personally, I no longer need it. Although I think it played a substantial role in my successful transition from smoking to vaping, I do not fear of going back to smoking if I can't have any WTA. I've gone gone 7-10 days without it at various times, and although after a while, I still feel something is missing, I don't have the slightest temptation to smoke to get it. So for me it's a "want", not a "must have". Still, I'm not about to let anyone tell me I can't have it anymore.

 

[zoiDman]

From a pragmatic perspective, it's simple: If you need or want WTA, stock up now while you still can.

...

I think this is Very Good Advise.

 

[AndriaD]

From a pragmatic perspective, it's simple: If you need or want WTA, stock up now while you still can.

Personally, I no longer need it. Although I think it played a substantial role in my successful transition from smoking to vaping, I do not fear of going back to smoking if I can't have any WTA. I've gone gone 7-10 days without it at various times, and although after a while, I still feel something is missing, I don't have the slightest temptation to smoke to get it. So for me it's a "want", not a "must have". Still, I'm not about to let anyone tell me I can't have it anymore.

I really wish I could afford to stock up; unfortunately the stuff is so expensive, I can barely afford to get my immediate needs.

But I really don't see a problem, since I should be free of it by the end of the year at the very latest. It takes the gov't a year to decide that they need to make a committee to think about making a decision. Nothing will be happening to it this year, which is all I'm really concerned about, though smokers in the future will no doubt have a much harder time, if WTA is not available.

I also found a post here, somewhere, which details a rough-and-ready way of extracting it myself; if worse came to worst, I could give that a shot. But I don't think it will be necessary, since I'll be free of it by the end of year.

If they could find a way to make it and then refine the nicotine out, while leaving all the rest intact, that would be ideal.

Andria

 

[Jman8]

I don't really use WTA liquids, so don't really care what happens to them....

...said no politically aware vaper. Ever.

While it is true that I don't use them, I very much do care how FDA may (or may) not address them. IMO, it is no different than some other state which I don't live in might take some political action to restrict / ban vaping in that jurisdiction. Damn right I care. To act like regulators are going to get their way and well we just have to sit back and let them, is the epitome of "doing nothing." At the very least, on a vaping forum, you could act upset that this is happening and say this matters as much as all the other issues that come our way, and regulators seek to control / ban.

If there is currently a demand for WTA, there will be a market for it it. I guarantee it. MIght not be a legal market, but could be if vapers explain how this matters as much as online sales on all liquid flavors or as much as being able to obtain a wide array of flavors. Of course opposition wants it banned. Our side says no way, and sticks to our guns, throwing no aspect under the bus, just cause one thing seems like a foregone conclusion.

 

[LittleBird]

DHHS Secretary Burwell can propose changes to the law; she can not actually change the law. The only venue through which the law can be changed is the Congress. With a change in Congressional leadership, we have an opportunity to push for a more vape-friendly outcome vis the proposed deeming regs -- both on scientific and economic grounds. I appreciate that we all know this, and undoubtedly sound like a broken record, but it is imperative that we engage our Representatives. Arguing here about the relative merits of WTA, flavorings, custom blends, etc., isn't helpful, IMHO. Off soapbox.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Is there any doubt that AEMSA wants their brand of manufacturing standards enshrined in regulatory law?

Can a standard of a dollar for a milliliter of ejuice be far behind?

 

[englishmick]

I don't really use WTA liquids, so don't really care what happens to them....

...said no politically aware vaper. Ever.

While it is true that I don't use them, I very much do care how FDA may (or may) not address them. IMO, it is no different than some other state which I don't live in might take some political action to restrict / ban vaping in that jurisdiction. Damn right I care. To act like regulators are going to get their way and well we just have to sit back and let them, is the epitome of "doing nothing." At the very least, on a vaping forum, you could act upset that this is happening and say this matters as much as all the other issues that come our way, and regulators seek to control / ban.

If there is currently a demand for WTA, there will be a market for it it. I guarantee it. MIght not be a legal market, but could be if vapers explain how this matters as much as online sales on all liquid flavors or as much as being able to obtain a wide array of flavors. Of course opposition wants it banned. Our side says no way, and sticks to our guns, throwing no aspect under the bus, just cause one thing seems like a foregone conclusion.

Well said. I use 12mg now. Don't think I could have got off cigarettes that way, I started with 24mg. What should I do if they proposed a limit of 15mg? Say fine I'm OK with that? They might propose a limit of 8mg. Sure hope the 6mg crowd wouldn't throw me under the bus. I don't need WTA, but writing that off as a lost cause doesn't seem right. There are some fights we will probably lose, but in a negotiation it's not a good strategy to start low.

 

[HiFi Guy]

Is there any doubt that AEMSA wants their brand of manufacturing standards enshrined in regulatory law?

Can a standard of a dollar for a milliliter of ejuice be far behind?

Or there's another possibility:

Big Tobacco would like vaping to be a fad, and it just goes away. Their belief here is that a percentage would return to smoking. I'm wondering why they don't just expand their holdings in other industries instead of killing their customers. There may be a reason for that- see below.

Drug companies would like it to go away because their sales of smoking cessation aids have surely been affected.

Government would like one of two scenarios:

Regulate and tax vaping supplies to bolster tax revenue.

Or- and this is far more sinister-

Eliminate vaping as above. A certain percentage will almost definitely return to smoking. This will bolster tax revenue as well. This will surely reduce the life span of the smoker. This is actually advantageous to the government as there won't suddenly be a large amount of unplanned people receiving Social Security benefits, as there would likely be with vapers. Yes, I realize that I'm suggesting that at a certain age, the government would prefer we die.

Or maybe I just think too much.

 

[Robino1]

RE: WTA

Dropping this here. Nice read by Rolygate

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/642156-wta-refill-liquids.html