How ya doin' Zoid?
yeah, i'm buttering you up...you got a lot of stored stuff
I'm doing Good.
And you are Always Welcome to come over and Tap Into my Strategic Reserve of Doomsday Nicotine. But you Have to Bring your Own Flavoring (BYOF).
I guess the "regulations" are starting.
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I'm doing Good.
And you are Always Welcome to come over and Tap Into my Strategic Reserve of Doomsday Nicotine. But you Have to Bring your Own Flavoring (BYOF).
Which is exactly why I don't mind a bit that there is diacetyl in margarine and a lot of other stuff I EAT, but *will not have it* in the stuff I'm vaping. I don't sit and eat margarine every waking minute, nor do I vaporize and inhale it on purpose... I *do* vape 'round the clock.
But when I first read the AEMSA requirements, and saw that they completely ban any vendor who uses WTA, that was all she wrote, for me, where AEMSA is concerned. Their other requirements, I could go either way, but the WTA-ban makes it a complete no-go for me. Banning something that so many former smokers NEED, well that's just stupid. Without WTA, I would NOT have made it even one month, nevermind nearly 6.
Andria
Yeah... Toxicity is based on the Dose, not the Substance. Because Everything in a High Enough Dose can be Harmful.
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I'm Not going to Speak for AEMSA. But as I understand it, AEMSA had no problem with WTA per say. Where the Problem arise was from the OEM of WTA not wanting to Tell AEMSA what WTA was or how it was Made.
It's kinda hard for someone like AEMSA (or Anyone else) to put their Seal of Approval on an e-Liquid when there is a Chemical Compound in it that AEMSA can Not Verify what it is, what it Does, or even How it is made.
Membership in AEMSA is Completely Voluntary. And the OEM who makes WTA was not Banned from AEMSA anymore that I would be if I wanted to put a Chemical Compound into my e-Liquids but refused to Tell AEMSA what it was or How it was Made.
It kinda Defeats the Purpose of having an AEMSA Standard if AEMSA Members can put Anything they want in an e-Liquid.
I could understand that, except that they say that WTA is not allowed.
Isn't it up to them to determine what standards they want to use in allowing WTA liquids?
Like I said before, it is My Understanding that the Original Problem was not WTA. The Problem was with ANY Substance that the OEM would Not Divulge the Chemical Compound is or How it is Made.
Now the OEM may have Now divulged what Exactly is WTA to AEMSA. And Exactly how WTA is Made. And AEMSA may have Evaluated it and Decided that it is Not Someone that AEMSA can Include in their Standard. They have that Right.
AEMSA can make ANY requirement or can say that ANY substance is Not Allowed in Any e-Liquid that bares their AEMSA Seal. And it is Up to a Company to Decide if the AEMSA Standard and AEMSA Membership is some they want to be Involved with.
And just so we are All Clear on this. AEMSA is an e-Liquid Trade Organization. Not a Consumer Advocacy or Consumer Use Organization.
I can't fully support AEMSA until they work towards finding a way to include WTA liquids.
Maybe they are, and maybe they are not, but they need to.
EDIT: And I'm pretty sure AEMSA knows what WTA is and how it's made.
EDIT: But the process does need to be verified, I'll give you that.
Maybe they are, and maybe they are not, but they need to.
EDIT: And I'm pretty sure AEMSA knows what WTA is and how it's made.
EDIT: But the process does need to be verified, I'll give you that.
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My guess is that is there is a certain technique to extracting the full alkaloid spectrum, but that the details may differ -- the WTA from mothersmilkwta is very, very different from that available from wholecig, though the effect is the same. I can't say about the OEM of WTA, because I've never tried any of their unflavored WTA, it's wayyyyyyyyyyy too expensive.
But "WTA" *is* banned by AEMSA, regardless of the fact that many ex-smokers depend on it in order to remain smoke-free and not suffering a host of different withdrawal symptoms. That is not right, not fair, and I won't support any organization with such an arbitrary and senseless requirement of banning something so absolutely necessary to so many ex-smokers.
Andria
But "WTA" *is* banned by AEMSA, regardless of the fact that many ex-smokers depend on it in order to remain smoke-free and not suffering a host of different withdrawal symptoms. That is not right, not fair, and I won't support any organization with such an arbitrary and senseless requirement of banning something so absolutely necessary to so many ex-smokers.
Andria
And that is Exactly what a Standard is Supposed to do.
When you buy and e-Liquid with "WTA", what Exactly are you Buying?
How Much WTA is Present?
What Tobacco Alkaloids are Present?
What is Purity of these Alkaloids?
Is there Anything Else in WTA?
Does WTA Vary from One Seller to the Next?
Is the Extraction Process the Same for WTA?
Are Some Extraction Methods Better than Others?
When can I stop Typing, my fingers are Getting Tired?
I'm just saying that AEMSA needs to try to make it happen, not ban it outright.
Kurt is certainly qualified to work towards a shared goal in this area.
My Only suggest to those that you just Mentioned is they Should try and Find someway to Stay Smoke-Free without WTA.
Because I Don't see "WTA" being an FDA Approved ingredient in e-Liquids sold in an FDA Regulated e-Liquid Market.
Then how do so many other harmful things become approved in an FDA regulated market?
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Why?
Don't get me Wrong. I'm not Indorsing (or Opposing) AEMSA. I just think AEMSA can do ANYTHING they Want.
And if Companies don't want to be an AEMSA Member. Great. And if People don't want to Buy AEMSA Approved e-Liquids, that's Great Also.
If this Conversation was occurring in 2009, I think it would have More Merit. But Today, with Looming FDA Regulations that will Trump anything AEMSA says or Does, it doesn't seem all that Meaningful.
Please let me know about these Harmful things that the FDA has approved for the e-Liquid Market?
I am Not Aware of Any.
Well I'm starting to work toward exactly that, though it will take me at least 10 months, because WTA is too easy a target for the FDA. But for those who need it... there *IS* no other way, other than having an occasional smoke -- and isn't THAT what we're all trying to avoid? Why should we have to take poison, to get those other necessary chemicals?????
There is stuff -- good, necessary stuff -- in cigarettes that people NEED, and some of it ISN'T nicotine. Certainly BP could offer it... but then people would REALLY quit smoking, they wouldn't keep buying NRT constantly, and hey, if they quit smoking, they most likely wouldn't need the anti-cancer and anti-COPD drugs so much -- so it is NOT in BP's interest to make it.
Saying that folks should try and find a way to do without WTA is *EXACTLY* what the ANTZ have saying for years about cigarettes. You really want to join that camp???
Andria
To those who use WTA it is very meaningful.
I even use WTA when I get stressed.
My bottle expires before I finish it though.
But there are others who need it much more than I do.
And that's what this fight is really about, and I don't just mean WTA liquids.
The fight is the fight, and as far as I'm concerned WTA is part of that fight.
Yes, AEMSA can do anything they want, and I fully support them doing so.
And while I support AEMSA to some extent, I can not do so fully because of this issue.
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Saying that folks should try and find a way to do without WTA is *EXACTLY* what the ANTZ have saying for years about cigarettes. You really want to join that camp???
Andria
Making Everything about ANTZ Isn't very Productive.
I'm sorry Andria. But I just Don't see the FDA approving WTA as an Approved e-Liquid Ingredient.
I can't say that I agree or disagree, but why not?
Actually, never mind, I agree that the FDA won't approve it anymore than they will approve various flavors.
But AEMSA allows flavors, and last I saw they also allowed colorants as well.
That smells like hypocrisy to me.
EDIT: Not that I'm opposed to hypocrisy, as we all do it every day
EDIT: Without hypocrisy there would be no parents
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