I guess the "regulations" are starting.

[zoiDman]

To those who use WTA it is very meaningful.

I even use WTA when I get stressed.
My bottle expires before I finish it though.

But there are others who need it much more than I do.
And that's what this fight is really about, and I don't just mean WTA liquids.

The fight is the fight, and as far as I'm concerned WTA is part of that fight.

Yes, AEMSA can do anything they want, and I fully support them doing so.
And while I support AEMSA to some extent, I can not do so fully because of this issue.

I'm Not Say'n that they Don't.

And I'm Not Siding with AEMSA or the FDA or Anyone Else on whether WTA should be in an e-liquid.

Because I have Never had Anyone define Exactly what "WTA" is. I it is Hard for me to Fight for Something to be Included in an e-liquid when I don't even Know what it is. Or how much of whatever it is is in the e-liquid.

All I'm saying is that if AEMSA will Not Approve it in e-Liquids, I see Very Little chance of the FDA approving it in theirs.

 

[Oberon75]

Please let me know about these Harmful things that the FDA has approved for the e-Liquid Market?

I am Not Aware of Any.

I'm not talking about the e-Liquid market. I'm talking about products in general. There are a lot of harmful things that go into our bodies that the FDA allows as long as those ingredients are listed.

As well as others like acrylamide which the EPA highly regulates in our drinking water but the FDA ignores when it comes to food consumption. Acrylamide doesn't even need to be listed on a food packaging. But I guarantee you this. If acrylamide was ever found in vapor, it would be a dangerous chemical and a sin tax would be imminent.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[DC2]

Because I have Never had Anyone define Exactly what "WTA" is. I it is Hard for me to Fight for Something to be Included in an e-Liquid when I don't even Know what it is.

Well, let me give it a shot...

WTA is "Whole Tobacco Alkaloids" and it is the full spectrum of such alkaloids naturally occurring in tobacco.
Nicotine is only one of those alkaloids.

It is hypothesized, with a good deal of scientific evidence to back it up, that those alkaloids are very important to some people.
They basically represent the MAOIs that are present in tobacco, and a big part of the smoking "picture" for some people.

Or how much of whatever it is is in the e-Liquid.

I'll agree with that to some extent.

All I'm saying is that if AEMSA will Not Approve it in e-Liquids, I see Very Little chance of the FDA approving it in theirs.

And yeah, that's kind of the point I'm trying to make, even if that point is buried deep within my arguments.

 

[zoiDman]

I can't say that I agree or disagree, but why not?

Actually, never mind, I agree that the FDA won't approve it anymore than they will approve various flavors.
But AEMSA allows flavors, and last I saw they also allowed colorants as well.

That smells like hypocrisy to me.

EDIT: Not that I'm opposed to hypocrisy, as we all do it every day
EDIT: Without hypocrisy there would be no parents
EDIT:

The Entire coming e-Cigarette Market is Going to Reek of Hypocrisy.

That is Something Both You and I can Agree on.

BTW - Whereas this whole Should AEMSA allow "WTA" in their e-Liquid Standard is a OK Topic, I would Much Rather see Vapers expending more Time and Effort on something like this...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/642648-1l-100mg-nic-base-went-up-830-00-a.html

BTW2 - Did you get a Chance to look at CA 2015 SB-24?

 

[DC2]

BTW2 - Did you get a Chance to look at CA 2015 SB-24?

No, I was waiting for you to start your thread about it.
I thought it would save me the time.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm not talking about the e-Liquid market. I'm talking about products in general. There are a lot of harmful things that go into our bodies that the FDA allows as long as those ingredients are listed.

As well as others like acrylamide which the EPA highly regulates in our drinking water but the FDA ignores when it comes to food consumption. Acrylamide doesn't even need to be listed on a food packaging. But I guarantee you this. If acrylamide was ever found in vapor, it would be a dangerous chemical and a sin tax would be imminent.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

Does what goes into Product "A" always have a bearing on what goes into Product "B" when Product "A" and Product "B" are Unrelated?

 

[beckdg]

$20 say they contain nicotine and diacetyl. Some day the prohibitionists will ban them and propose Soylent Green as the only true and Safe for The Children meal.

$50 says I can find a video of someone heating them up and inhaling them on youtube.

Sent from my device.

 

[zoiDman]

No, I was waiting for you to start your thread about it.
I thought it would save me the time.

To be Honest with you, I Haven't finished Reading the Legislation.

And do not know if the "License" that is Referenced in it goes Above and Beyond the current requirement in California to sell Tobacco.

Because when e-Liquids that contain Nicotine derived from Tobacco Plants are Deemed as a "Tobacco Product", the e-Liquids will Automatically fall under the domain of May Existing Tobacco Requirements.

 

[zoiDman]

Well, let me give it a shot...

WTA is "Whole Tobacco Alkaloids" and it is the full spectrum of such alkaloids naturally occurring in tobacco.
Nicotine is only one of those alkaloids.

BTW3 - Anatabine is the Only alkaloid that I have done any research on.

Anatabine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[crxess]

Because when e-Liquids that contain Nicotine derived from Tobacco Plants are Deemed as a "Tobacco Product", the e-Liquids will Automatically fall under the domain of May Existing Tobacco Requirements.

Yet Pharmaceutical will be exempt
Do they really think Nic gum or patches are any different? No they already get their piece of that pie.

Everything that is something comes from something else. There is no such thing as Created, only modified.

Vaccines are not created nor are synthetics. they are simply existing things combined/extracted/modified to suit a need.

There is no need to deny Nicotine comes from Nightshade plants.
There is also no need to call Nicotine Tobacco when as a whole, it is no longer Tobacco.

The Whole Game is stupid.

 

[zoiDman]

Yet Pharmaceutical will be exempt
Do they really think Nic gum or patches are any different? No they already get their piece of that pie.

That is Correct.

Because Nicotine in e-Liquids is being Sold for "Recreational Use". And not as a Smoking Cessation Product.

And Thank Every Higher Power you have that they are. Because e-Liquid Sales would have been Banned Outright in 2009.

If e-Liquids had gone down the Smoking Cessation "Drug" route, we would be Pegging BP is the Great Evil. And FDA approved e-Liquids would have to Undergo all the Years of Clinical Trials that Gum and Patches did.

So we might be See e-Liquids Reappear in 2025 or so being sold by BP. And a Related price Structure as what you see in Gums and Patches.

 

[Steamix]

Guess the number of vapers looking into DIY will increase.

Who's to keep me from getting food flavours and sloshing it together with some AEMSA/FDA/whoever-approved unflavoured base ?

Won't be much consolation for liquid vendors doin a great job, providing jobs and yes - payin' taxes...

But if it's meant to coax peeps back onto the BT/BP gravy train .... fat chance...

 

[DC2]

The Whole Game is stupid.

While I can't deny that this is all some kind of "game" it just irks me when the stakes are people's lives.

 

[zoiDman]

...

There is no need to deny Nicotine comes from Nightshade plants.
There is also no need to call Nicotine Tobacco when as a whole, it is no longer Tobacco.

The Whole Game is stupid.

This Topic has been Hashed out 10,000 Times in a 1,000 Threads.

But the Sad and True Fact is that the e-Liquid is a Tobacco Product Train left the Station Years ago. And it Aint coming Back.

Sometimes we just Need to Move On. And start Dealing with what Is Going to Happen. Instead of Discussing what Should or Shouldn't Happen.

 

[AndriaD]

Because I have Never had Anyone define Exactly what "WTA" is. I it is Hard for me to Fight for Something to be Included in an e-Liquid when I don't even Know what it is. Or how much of whatever it is is in the e-Liquid.

Then you haven't looked.

WTA: Anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine, as well as the monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) harman and norharman.

Anabasine is present in trace amounts in tobacco smoke, and can be used as an indicator of a person's exposure to tobacco smoke (along with cotinine, a metabolite (break-down product) of nicotine).

Anatabine is one of the minor alkaloids found in plants in the Solanaceae family, which includes the tobacco plant and tomato; it has been studied in animal models and in cells to see if it might be useful for treating nicotine addiction and inflammation, and has been studied in models of diseases characterized by inflammation, such as Alzheimer's Disease, thyroiditis, and multiple sclerosis.

Nornicotine is an alkaloid found in various plants including Nicotiana, the tobacco plant. It is chemically similar to nicotine, and is a precursor to the carcinogen N-nitrosonornicotine that is produced during the curing and processing of tobacco.

Nicotine accounts for about 90%-95% of the tobacco alkaloids; in WTA, the other 5%-10% of trace alkaloids are also included.

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

While I can't deny that this is all some kind of "game" it just irks me when the stakes are people's lives.

That Isn't what get's me.

It's when the Primary Deciding Factors in policy Decisions is Taxes, or Profits, or Political Gains/Grandstand instead of Science and when Peoples Health Hangs in the Balance.

 

[zoiDman]

Then you haven't looked.

WTA: Anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine, as well as the monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) harman and norharman.

Anabasine is present in trace amounts in tobacco smoke, and can be used as an indicator of a person's exposure to tobacco smoke (along with cotinine, a metabolite (break-down product) of nicotine).

Anatabine is one of the minor alkaloids found in plants in the Solanaceae family, which includes the tobacco plant and tomato; it has been studied in animal models and in cells to see if it might be useful for treating nicotine addiction and inflammation, and has been studied in models of diseases characterized by inflammation, such as Alzheimer's Disease, thyroiditis, and multiple sclerosis.

Nornicotine is an alkaloid found in various plants including Nicotiana, the tobacco plant. It is chemically similar to nicotine, and is a precursor to the carcinogen N-nitrosonornicotine that is produced during the curing and processing of tobacco.

Nicotine accounts for about 90%-95% of the tobacco alkaloids; in WTA, the other 5%-10% of trace alkaloids are also included.

Andria

So how Many of these Alkaloids are Present in the "WTA" you buy?

And Everything Else in Post #92?

ETA: I won't even go into the Topic of Whether or Not there is a limit to How Many/Much of the Alkaloids can be "Safely" Inhaled?

Because I'm not sure if Anyone knows?

And Nobody seems to know How Many or How Much they are Inhaling Anyway.

 

[AndriaD]

If it's "WTA" then all that is in there. That's why it's called "WHOLE tobacco alkaloids."

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

If it's "WTA" then all that is in there. That's why it's called "WHOLE tobacco alkaloids."

Andria

At what Concentration?

 

[AndriaD]

At what Concentration?

How should I know? I'm not a chemist! The bottle says 25mg, or 24mg, so I guess that's either 2.5% or 2.4%; considering that 90%-95% of WTA is nicotine, that's all I need to know. I was mixing it as 10% of my ejuice; now that I've started reducing, it's 9%, and next month, 8%, and so on, until I'm either free of it, or have cravings; if I have cravings, I'll go back 1 percentage point, and the next month, only reduce by .5 a percentage point. that's why I said it would take me at least 10 months to be free of it.

But yes, saying something like "they need to find a way to not need it" is EXACTLY what the smoke nazis have been saying for decades -- they've never smoked, so they have no idea what they're talking about. Those who've never needed or used WTA have no idea what they're talking about either, so it's exactly the same thing.

At this point, you're just nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking, since you've never needed it.

Andria