I need the antifreeze thing cleared up

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jim Davis

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Mar 16, 2009
4,260
83
Retired in Houston, Texas / USA
Hey guys;
If I put some PG in a cat turd, does that mean there are cat turds in e-cig's??
Who cares what other uses there are for PG. Has nothing to do with anything.

How many chemicals are cut with water? That doesn't mean we can't drink water.

It's just another example of how the government can control the uninformed.
 

Jim Davis

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Mar 16, 2009
4,260
83
Retired in Houston, Texas / USA
  • Deleted by Jim Davis
  • Reason: Duplicate

Xenogy

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 10, 2009
160
3
Washington
Ok so is there anti-freeze in my e-cigs (or) e-cigs in my anti-freeze? :lol:


I did a little research last week but never got around to posting it. Since this subject came up again I decided to post some of my findings.


There is confusing info out there on what is in anti-freeze. So I did a little research. Honeywell is the largest US manufacturer of antifreeze in the US. I used them as a background to my research. My auto mechanic always told me to get the extended life antifreeze. Doesn't matter the brand it all comes from the same place.

From: Jeffrey Bye Vice President Prestone Honeywell International Inc U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, & Transportation "In the United States, our Prestone antifreeze is sold in all 50 states and through virtually all major mass retailers, such as Wal-Mart, and auto retailers, such as Autozone and Advance. In addition, we supply private label antifreeze to most major retailers in the United States. We also supply automakers, such as General Motors, Ford and Toyota, for the factory fill of their automobiles in North America."

So I took a further look into the ingredients. Here is the MSDS of Honeywell; makers of Prestone and almost all generic labled antifreeze in the US. http://win14.american.edu/safety/au/vault/000/000718.pdf

Ingredients:

Ethylene Glycol 80-96%
Diethylene Glycol 0-8%
Water > 1%

None of these ingredients are human carcinogens. Meaning long term exposure will not lead to cancer. However Ethylene Glycol and Diethylene Glycol are poisons. Ethylene Glycol is the active ingredient in antifreeze (80-96%) and also the most poisonous of the two. It is sweet to the taste and is a reason there are accidental poisonings of animals.

Diethylene Glycol is another ingredient in antifreeze (0-8%). While poisonous you will be surprised what commodities out there contain this ingredient to include makeup and tobacco. This was the chemical in the FDA report that was found in 1 flavor (555) cartridge out of numerous tested from one particular e-juice manufacturer. That 1 cartridge contained undisclosed trace amounts LESS THAN 1% according to the FDA report. This manufacturer does pre-filled cartridges for Smoking Everywhere and does not produce bottled juice. The name of that company is somewhere on ECF if you look around a bit. Other e-juice manufacturers tested did not have this diethylene glycol chemical in any trace amount. So stating antifreeze is in ecigs if far from the truth and misleading.

Recently Prestone Honeywell has come out with a "Low Tox" antifreeze that simply replaces the Ethylene Glycol, and Diethylene Glycol mixture with a Propylene Glycol based antifreeze. Being that it's industrial grade for automobiles far from USP grade, Prestone states 90-100% Propylene Glycol.

Here is the MSDS info on propylene glycol done for Low Tox antifreeze.
http://www.msdshazcom.com/WEB_DOCS/Facilities/PrestoneLowTox.pdf

Green liquid with a characteristic odor. Not classified as flammable or combustible but will burn under fire conditions. Direct eye contact may cause transient discomfort. Not toxic by inhalation, skin contact or ingestion.

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS:

ACUTE HAZARDS

INHALATION: No significant adverse health effects are expected from inhalation exposure.

SKIN CONTACT: No significant irritation is expected.

SKIN ABSORPTION: Skin irritation is minimal, can be mildly irritating to mucous membranes. May cause allergic contact dermatitis.

EYE CONTACT: Direct contact may cause stinging and tearing but no residual injury or discomfort.

INGESTION: Considered relatively non-toxic following acute ingestion, however, lactic acidosis, stupor and seizures have been reported following chronic ingestion and in individuals with underlying kidney disease.

CHRONIC HAZARDS: None currently known.

MEDICAL CONDITIONS AGGRAVATED BY EXPOSURE: None currently known.

CARCINOGEN: None of the components of this product are listed as a carcinogen or suspected carcinogen by IARC, NTP or OSHA.
 

Munson

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 17, 2009
78
0
42
Chandler, AZ
So, according to FDA, eliquid = antifreeze.
Now, people ask me why I "smoke" antifreeze
So if the FDA were to ban eliquid, I could soak nicotine patches in antifreeze and vape it up? After all, they're saying it's the same thing, right?!?

How in the world can people be so dumb and illogical... And then find followers? :evil:
 

Xenogy

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 10, 2009
160
3
Washington

RIMP

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
So, according to FDA, eliquid = antifreeze.
Now, people ask me why I "smoke" antifreeze
So if the FDA were to ban eliquid, I could soak nicotine patches in antifreeze and vape it up? After all, they're saying it's the same thing, right?!?

How in the world can people be so dumb and illogical... And then find followers? :evil:


NEVER underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups:)


RIMP:evil:
 

ProfessorDaffy

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 12, 2009
576
7
Acme Looniversity
I can't find a thread that fully explains why we can accurately claim that the PG we use is not the same thing that's used in Antifreeze.

Is Proplyene Glycol actually stated on bottles of Vanilla flavoring as an ingredient? Is it also stated as an ingredient on Antifreeze bottles? I'm confused.

VG and PG are not carcinogens. E-juice should contain no toxic or cancer causing agents.

1% of diethylene glycol (not PG or VG) was found in one cart of the 18 carts tested by the FDA. What amazes me is that they looked to find the most dangerous thing it was in so people would think we were vaping antifreeze. Some E-liquids also sometimes contain water, which can be found in car batteries! E-liquids are mostly propylene glycol which can be found in toothpaste! Does that mean we're vaping toothpaste and battery acid?

Facts are facts. It's how you present them that makes a difference. Why not say in all by one it was proven that e-cigs contain no carcinogenic material and proved the e-cigs claims. But the obvious question is why was there diethylene glycol in it at all? It's not necessary. There's no reason for it to be there. Is it simply a matter of quality control with one of the two companies being tested?

Another fact is that many e-liquids contain a small amount of plain old glycerin (most if it put there by it's users :)) to produce a thicker vaper. It is not uncommon for e-liquids to contain glycerin (also in toothpaste). The most likely reason it was there was because they though they were adding glycerin.

Diethylene glycol is also illegally used as counterfeit glycerin in some nations and sold internationally as a component of cough syrup, toothpaste, and mouthwash. It has in the past been used as an adulterant by winemakers to create a "sweet" wine.

But lets face facts. When you purchase any food substance that you put in your body, you take the risk that is it not 100% as advertised. Unless your manufacturing it yourself you never know. And even then you have to be weary of where you get your components. Of what is in the ground it was grown in. Or how clean the preparation area was.

If you want a 100% sure thing go back to cigarettes. If anyone said, hey we found 40 carcinogens and deadly chemicals including carbon monoxide, you'd say... DUH! If you could guarantee 100% that there was only ONE carcinogen in e-cigs it's still better than a cigarette.

The truth is... When e-liquid is prepared correctly it contains no carcinogens, no tar, no tobacco, and no carbon monoxide. It was proven by the FDA and let's not forget it (don't forget the other 17 carts that get ignored). If anything it's an issue of quality control; one one cart from one manufacturer.

--Prof Daffy
 

justrubl

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 10, 2008
143
0
52
Houston, Texas, United States
And this is why I feel the way I do. I am an emergency room nurse and one of the sayings a co-worker loves to give is "you can't fix stupid". And as an ER nurse I always say (and this is just in general - and gets my mother fussing at me every time) "everyone is ......ed and I hate people"....and these people who push the negatives of the e-cig when they don't know jack about them fall in that group.

Ain't that the truth!

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the limitless supply of human stupidity.
 
Last edited:

ironjaw

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 22, 2009
131
0
44
orlando,fl
I can't find a thread that fully explains why we can accurately claim that the PG we use is not the same thing that's used in Antifreeze.

Is Proplyene Glycol actually stated on bottles of Vanilla flavoring as an ingredient? Is it also stated as an ingredient on Antifreeze bottles? I'm confused.
its nothing to worrie about
 

luigi

Full Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 29, 2009
54
33
United Stated of America
Like Sodium and Chlorine. Either one alone can kill you but when put together (Ionic Bonded) make food taste better. (Table Salt)


This is pretty much the answer. There are several ingredients in anti-freeze that we use commonly on a daily basis, such as water.

Just because an ingredient is found in something harmful to us doesn't make that ingredient itself harmful.

Think of it as chemistry. Take two perfectly harmless ingredients and mix them together and they can make a deadly poison. Same concept.

PG is perfectly fine. PG, as an ingredient itself, is approved by the FDA. Go figure.
 

Þornbjörg

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 27, 2009
102
30
Tampa, FL
Since its somewhat relevant...

snopes.com: Dihydrogen Monoxide

or see Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division - dihydrogen monoxide info

If you make something sound bad enough, but using the proper terms, you can get people to fall for the hoax, and even get lawmakers against them...

Local officials nearly fall for H2O hoax - Science- msnbc.com

I really think eCigs, and especially Propylene Glycol are going the route that all of the harmful effects of 'Dihydrogen Monoxide' scares have taken, but there are less people who are clued in to stop it.
 

the86d

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 13, 2009
1,082
8
So. California, USA
I can't find a thread that fully explains why we can accurately claim that the PG we use is not the same thing that's used in Antifreeze.

Is Proplyene Glycol actually stated on bottles of Vanilla flavoring as an ingredient? Is it also stated as an ingredient on Antifreeze bottles? I'm confused.

PG and Glycerin are in my cough syrup. Glycerin is also used to distribute colors uniformly in cake icing, and sold at the local cake shop too, although I use the Humco at Walmart due to USP purity per the pharmacist's recommendation.

So am I vaping the attachment to this?

Nope.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread