I need the antifreeze thing cleared up

[thana]

No one ever said PVs were 100% safe. The whole point is that they are safer/cleaner than tobacco smoke.

What people who use the "anti-freeze" arguement often fail to notice is that the 1% DEG is the WORST thing the FDA could find in ONE of the 18 carts tested and it's in much higher amounts in tobacco cigarettes! No tar, no arsenic, no ammonia, no carbon monoxide, etc...no one (Anti-PV) stops to think about how much cleaner that is than what is found in a real cigarettes.

The WORST thing they could manage to find was the 1% DEG, so they had to play it up. If they could have found anything worse than a tiny amount of DEG, you KNOW they would have been shouting it from the rooftops! Is DEG worse than inhaling arsenic or ammonia?

By ONLY finding the DEG as the "worst" ingredient, the FDA confirmed for me what I already knew - PVs are less toxic and, therefore, less deadly than tobacco smoking. And I don't use Smoking Everywhere 555 High brand cartridges, nor any tobacco flavors, so I'm not worried about DEG exposure, either!

I totally agree with you on this point. But at some point, we need to shift the argument from PV to Analogues, to PV to our bodies.

 

[frankie1]

Well that has pretty much been done. The information that we now have does not show any problem with PG or VG for that matter. The current information also suggests that nicotine in a form other than traditional cigarette smoking may be beneficial to certain individuals. The flavoring is the biggest question and that is mostly PG! The statement was made that we do not eat a gallon of icing a day...true, but I personally do not vape a gallon of eliquid a day and I suspect that no one else does either.

There is no way to do a long term study until the PV has been used LONG TERM. Until then, you can CHOOSE to believe they are better than analogs or you can choose to keep smoking or any choice in between. However, you cannot PROVE long term safety until they are used long term. I choose not to kill myself with analogs over the next 5-7 years that will be necessary to do that long term study.

 

[frankie1]

I use my 510 all day, but people need to understand that just because the FDA has cleared PG as "safe for human consumption" doesn't mean that it actually is safe in e-cigs. PG can be found in icing and skin products sure, but we are not ingesting or rubbing PG on our skins, we are vaporizing it. By doing this the avioli in our lungs are absorbing the PG into out bodies. It is a different delivery into our bodies and PG undergoes a phase change.

Are you totally disregarding the 1942 study that not only showed the inhalation of PG as safe, but actually beneficial in preventing flu?

Were you trying to indicate that you believe PG to be safe, but VG is not? Or were you attempting to discredit the notion that vaping should be, in absence of proof otherwise, GRAS?

 

[kristin]

I totally agree with you on this point. But at some point, we need to shift the argument from PV to Analogues, to PV to our bodies.

That's when you quit.

I doubt there will ever be a 100% safe PV. - you'll always be inhaling a foriegn substance into your lungs. It was invented to be a reduced harm product for those who can't or won't quit tobacco, not a 100% safe product.

 

[Kent C]

Are you totally disregarding the 1942 study that not only showed the inhalation of PG as safe, but actually beneficial in preventing flu?

That's correct. People who say "we don't know the long term effects of inhaling" haven't done their homework. The '42 (and '47 and later) studies that have been done on PG/VG factory workers have shown no long term effects.

 

[BigJimW]

Can somebody please help me cut this down so it is less harsh?

Would PG or VG go good?

 

[psychler]

sorry if somebody already posted this but:
Wikipedia's opinion

 

[I Stelfer I]

Saying PG is antifreeze is like saying cough syrup is an alcoholic beverage. Yes PG can be used at antifreeze because of its inherent ability to lower the freezing point of water, But that does NOT make it ok to claim we're vaping antifreeze.

 

[I Stelfer I]

Can somebody please help me cut this down so it is less harsh?

Would PG or VG go good?

It doesn't look like this is pre mixed 50/50 antifreeze so Water would be the best option to cut it with for optimal performance.

Hope this helped.

 

[pearlyvictoria]

Reading this post reminded me of something. One of my neighbors drank anti-freeze in an attempt to commit suicide. Brilliant man who was disappointed in the path his life took. He was laying on the curb and talking very loudly for about an hour. Thinking that he was just doing his usual schtick just to annoy us, we didn't pay attention at first. But feeling something was different this time, someone finally called the emergency crew. To wrap it up, I still see him sometimes volunteering at local festivals, the library and so on. The physical repercussions? He has a permanent slur and slight limp but is otherwise able to take care of himself. So, after ingesting antifreeze straight out of the container that is what the results are for him.

 

[Kent C]

Reading this post reminded me of something. One of my neighbors drank anti-freeze in an attempt to commit suicide. Brilliant man who was disappointed in the path his life took. He was laying on the curb and talking very loudly for about an hour. Thinking that he was just doing his usual schtick just to annoy us, we didn't pay attention at first. But feeling something was different this time, someone finally called the emergency crew. To wrap it up, I still see him sometimes volunteering at local festivals, the library and so on. The physical repercussions? He has a permanent slur and slight limp but is otherwise able to take care of himself. So, after ingesting antifreeze straight out of the container that is what the results are for him.

It's probably the fact that they started adding PG to the mix, is what saved him.

 

[wdave]

You can find a Material Safety Data Sheet on PG. It isn't as safe as advertised. Probably a good idea not to chain vape.

HTH,
Dave

 

[WomanOfHeart]

You can find a Material Safety Data Sheet on PG. It isn't as safe as advertised. Probably a good idea not to chain vape.

HTH,
Dave

You mean THIS MSDS?

You'd have to chain vape without stopping for one hell of a long time, every day 24/7/365 before you would experience any over exposure. Make sure that you aren't reading the MSDS for Industrial Use PG. It's different from what we use in vaping.

 

[wdave]

You mean THIS MSDS?

You'd have to chain vape without stopping for one hell of a long time, every day 24/7/365 before you would experience any over exposure. Make sure that you aren't reading the MSDS for Industrial Use PG. It's different from what we use in vaping.

Everyone is on their own journey with ecigs. I eventually upped my nicotine concentration to 36 mg. At that level I no longer need to chain vape. I use my 510 more or less like a would a cigarette. And if I vape too long I get a nice warning signal--a headache

Thanks for posting the MSDS sweetheart. I can tell you like being well informed.

Dave

 

[LKSkang]

"Veterinary data indicate that propylene glycol is toxic to dogs with a 50% chance of being lethal at doses of 9mL/kg, although the figure is higher for most laboratory animals (LD50 at levels of 20mL/kg).[33]
However, propylene glycol may be toxic to cats in ways not seen in other animals. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has determined that its presence in or on cat food has not been shown by adequate scientific data to be safe for use. Any such use is considered an adulteration of the cat food and a violation of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act."

Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can someone explain this to me please? ESPECIALLY the bolded section? I have pets and this has gotten me a little worried

 

[MadHatter]

If your dog weighs 50 pounds, if it drank about a cup of PG there's a 50% chance it could die. Cats are apparently more susceptible than other animals.

But keep in mind, the nicotine levels in most juices would kill the pet in even lesser amounts of liquid.

So, use common sense and keep your e-liquids in a safe and secure spot so that kids and pets can't get to it.

 

[Levitas]

If your dog weighs 50 pounds, if it drank about a cup of PG there's a 50% chance it could die. Cats are apparently more susceptible than other animals.

But keep in mind, the nicotine levels in most juices would kill the pet in even lesser amounts of liquid.

So, use common sense and keep your e-liquids in a safe and secure spot so that kids and pets can't get to it.

Well said.

Also, even though it isn't noted, I believe that the above doses is through ingestion, as opposed to inspiration (inhalation). Keep in mind your sources... wikipedia = take it with a grain of salt. I double checked the references used in that excerpt, and though the book seems legit, there was no way for me to compare actual information from the book. (Anyone can adjust, change, or post on wikipedia... anyone.)

 

[LKSkang]

Also, even though it isn't noted, I believe that the above doses is through ingestion, as opposed to inspiration (inhalation).

That really puts my mind at ease... I always keep my e-liquids away from the reach of pets and/or children. I was more worried about the vapes.

Thanks!!