I think I'm done with e-cigarettes/One born every minute
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Doris just needs some time to cool down. Then we can help her with what *she* wants instead of people telling her what *they* think she should do.
Well my first knee-jerk reaction to the OP was she was just another anti-ecig plant trying to cause problems... but I end up finding that I actually agree with her.
At the risk of sounding like an anti-ecig plant myself, I am definitely not, I will now rant a little as well. Please indulge me
<BEGIN RANT>
I have spent around $1500 since April on only a couple different models, batteries, atomizers, juice, and cartridges. Much more than I ever spent on analogs (but I am sure much less than some of you all), and frankly I don't really "feel" that much different since quitting analogs, which I did the first day. I do however enjoy not smelling like an ashtray or burning holes in my cloths, so that's a good thing, but probably due to reactions to the PG I have had many of the PG side effects. Unfortunately I cannot find the juice I want in non-PG. I have been one of the lucky ones I suppose since I have only lost 4 batteries and 2 atomizers (only! I have an old calculator with batteries that are 15 years old that still recharge). I read a lot of posts where attys are dying weekly.
Part of the $1500 I have spent was in getting my parents setup with ecigs to get them to quit analogs. Unfortunately it turns out they are just smoking the ecigs in between their analogs, and then come to find out the battery I got my stepmother last week died after 4 days and not knowing anything about ecigs (like we all do) she has been sucking down ejuice with a dead batter and getting nauseous from it (luckily she only vapes with 11mg). She now knows the difference between a working and dead battery.
The OP's point though is true, with what other product would this kind of quality control be acceptable? Imagine getting a car and having to replace the tires, at full price, every month!
We are perpetuating the low quality of these products by snapping them up at every turn. Juice comes out and within a few days most of the good ones are no longer in stock so we forced to grab whatever is left so we don't run out before we get our next shipment. I had a heck of a time finding replacement batteries for my 801, and only one place I could find that had an 801 pass-thru. I would love to try the Prodigy but it looks like that is still a couple weeks off, and even if I pre-ordered now, would probably be shut out by the time they filled existing pre-orders.
Now granted most of the manufacturers are pretty good about returns and replacements, but still, I shouldn't have to wait for a week for something to get from China (assuming it doesn't get stopped by Customs), and then have to wait another week or two to get replacements for the non-working parts (assuming THEY don't get stopped by Customs).
After I started vaping I vowed never to go back to analogs again. Not because of the dangers (I knew all along about that) but in principle as I decided I would no longer play into the hands of big tobacco or the money grubbing state gov'ts. Now I am starting to feel the same about the e-cig manufacturers, they are just playing us, pushing a defective product on us as quickly as they can mass produce them knowing we will snap them right up.
Yes, I know, no one is forcing me to e-smoke, I could go back to cancer sticks, yada yada yada, not the point. The point is, just because we are smokers, and are already treated like 3rd class citizens (no longer as well as 2nd class citizens) by the majority of the country, we should not allow those that are supposedly there to help us to take advantage of us.
<END RANT>
Now, I definitely need a 24mg cart after that, better order some more (s**t, stuck with Green Apple again!) LOL
CoderGuy
At the risk of sounding like an anti-ecig plant myself, I am definitely not, I will now rant a little as well. Please indulge me
<BEGIN RANT>
I have spent around $1500 since April on only a couple different models, batteries, atomizers, juice, and cartridges. Much more than I ever spent on analogs (but I am sure much less than some of you all), and frankly I don't really "feel" that much different since quitting analogs, which I did the first day. I do however enjoy not smelling like an ashtray or burning holes in my cloths, so that's a good thing, but probably due to reactions to the PG I have had many of the PG side effects. Unfortunately I cannot find the juice I want in non-PG. I have been one of the lucky ones I suppose since I have only lost 4 batteries and 2 atomizers (only! I have an old calculator with batteries that are 15 years old that still recharge). I read a lot of posts where attys are dying weekly.
Part of the $1500 I have spent was in getting my parents setup with ecigs to get them to quit analogs. Unfortunately it turns out they are just smoking the ecigs in between their analogs, and then come to find out the battery I got my stepmother last week died after 4 days and not knowing anything about ecigs (like we all do) she has been sucking down ejuice with a dead batter and getting nauseous from it (luckily she only vapes with 11mg). She now knows the difference between a working and dead battery.
The OP's point though is true, with what other product would this kind of quality control be acceptable? Imagine getting a car and having to replace the tires, at full price, every month!
We are perpetuating the low quality of these products by snapping them up at every turn. Juice comes out and within a few days most of the good ones are no longer in stock so we forced to grab whatever is left so we don't run out before we get our next shipment. I had a heck of a time finding replacement batteries for my 801, and only one place I could find that had an 801 pass-thru. I would love to try the Prodigy but it looks like that is still a couple weeks off, and even if I pre-ordered now, would probably be shut out by the time they filled existing pre-orders.
Now granted most of the manufacturers are pretty good about returns and replacements, but still, I shouldn't have to wait for a week for something to get from China (assuming it doesn't get stopped by Customs), and then have to wait another week or two to get replacements for the non-working parts (assuming THEY don't get stopped by Customs).
After I started vaping I vowed never to go back to analogs again. Not because of the dangers (I knew all along about that) but in principle as I decided I would no longer play into the hands of big tobacco or the money grubbing state gov'ts. Now I am starting to feel the same about the e-cig manufacturers, they are just playing us, pushing a defective product on us as quickly as they can mass produce them knowing we will snap them right up.
Yes, I know, no one is forcing me to e-smoke, I could go back to cancer sticks, yada yada yada, not the point. The point is, just because we are smokers, and are already treated like 3rd class citizens (no longer as well as 2nd class citizens) by the majority of the country, we should not allow those that are supposedly there to help us to take advantage of us.
<END RANT>
Now, I definitely need a 24mg cart after that, better order some more (s**t, stuck with Green Apple again!) LOL
CoderGuy
I think the biggest mistake people make is not realizing the amount of work that is required to make a good ecig experience. Not work in the sense of digging a ditch, of course. But work nonetheless.
There should be a mandatory training video (like Spikey's or something similar) that you must watch before making your first ecig purchase (no matter the model). Upon viewing the video and successfully answering 5 simple questions you are then issued a "license" number (kinda like a drivers license). This number could be entered at any supplier to certify that you understand the commitment needed to successfully utilize ecigs............
Of course this is more complicated than is practical, but you get the idea..............
There should be a mandatory training video (like Spikey's or something similar) that you must watch before making your first ecig purchase (no matter the model). Upon viewing the video and successfully answering 5 simple questions you are then issued a "license" number (kinda like a drivers license). This number could be entered at any supplier to certify that you understand the commitment needed to successfully utilize ecigs............
Of course this is more complicated than is practical, but you get the idea..............
A year ago, some of more realistic e-smokers were saying these devices aren't ready for prime time. Sadly, many devices still aren't. A few are good, but it's easy to waste a large sum of money on crap that doesn't work or fails in a short time. Not everyone wants an "e-smoking hobby."
We're not only guinea pigs for the health consequences, but we're beta testers for flawed products we must pay inflated prices to purchase. For every happy bunny here, there must be 10 really angry bunnies out there who curse the day they bought an e-cig.
Yet we smile right through the failures and carry on the e-evangelism. Yes, I e-smoke almost non-stop -- precisely because I made it a hobby and devote massive amounts of time to keeping everything in proper operating order. Am I happy about that? Not on your life.
Frankly, I have a hard time recommending e-smoking unless a friend will follow my very specific purchasing orders. If they don't, they'll likely fail and be one more angry bunny.
We're not only guinea pigs for the health consequences, but we're beta testers for flawed products we must pay inflated prices to purchase. For every happy bunny here, there must be 10 really angry bunnies out there who curse the day they bought an e-cig.
Yet we smile right through the failures and carry on the e-evangelism. Yes, I e-smoke almost non-stop -- precisely because I made it a hobby and devote massive amounts of time to keeping everything in proper operating order. Am I happy about that? Not on your life.
Frankly, I have a hard time recommending e-smoking unless a friend will follow my very specific purchasing orders. If they don't, they'll likely fail and be one more angry bunny.
but I refused to give up. I also had the added pressure of my SO who is a natural born naysayer but I kept perservering until I found not one but two brands I trust. I'll be back here to give the links as soon as I become a trusted member with 15 posts, not sure what number I'm up to yet.....hee hee
Also, my experience is MY experience, some vapers find a brand they like right away, others have less than good experiences for awhile until they find not only a dependable product but one that meets their needs. Even when smoking tobaccoo cigs it can take awhile til you find one that feels just right for you and it's the same with anything. Everyone has different taste, ya know?
Not to mention the FDA is not making things easier either. They are impeding progress with their dictatorial bannings not based on science but prejudice. Haters! How can manufacturers start up in the U.S. with quality control with all the mess the FDA is creating for the eCig industry?
Also, my experience is MY experience, some vapers find a brand they like right away, others have less than good experiences for awhile until they find not only a dependable product but one that meets their needs. Even when smoking tobaccoo cigs it can take awhile til you find one that feels just right for you and it's the same with anything. Everyone has different taste, ya know?
Not to mention the FDA is not making things easier either. They are impeding progress with their dictatorial bannings not based on science but prejudice. Haters! How can manufacturers start up in the U.S. with quality control with all the mess the FDA is creating for the eCig industry?
Elendil, you are correct there should be more awareness to the commitment involved. Unfortunately many are introduced to e-cigs for the first time by the snake-oil salesmen hawking Smoke-51s at the mall (Smoke-51 is a good product, I own two, and have less problem with it than my 801 or 901, I am referring to the salesmen).
They present the product like a quick and easy fix, just buy this and all your troubles will fade away, smoke them anywhere, no health risks, much cheaper than analogs. How can we not be sucked in (no pun intended)?
TropicalBob, I agree with you (as I usually do). We are definitely guinea pigs and beta testers (at least we KNEW analogs would kill us LOL).
CoderGuy
They present the product like a quick and easy fix, just buy this and all your troubles will fade away, smoke them anywhere, no health risks, much cheaper than analogs. How can we not be sucked in (no pun intended)?
TropicalBob, I agree with you (as I usually do). We are definitely guinea pigs and beta testers (at least we KNEW analogs would kill us LOL).
CoderGuy
When breakdowns push me over the edge, that's probably exactly what I'm going to do. For the time being, I'm still having fun with it
Well, it is no longer just FDA. As more people discover e-cigs, there are going to be more unhappy and vocal customers. They purchased the shiny new device and they want it to work NOW. It doesn't matter that it is just a first-generation device. I can already see customer protection agencies getting involved to "help" these angry customers. Best way to do that? Stop imports of cheap China atomizers and PVs.
God I feel like I'm ALMOST in the same spot as Doris. I started with this ecig thing at the end of April. I bought into the Smoking Everywhere junk like most beginners. I spent about $200 on the first day buying what amounts to a $50 801 classic kit. I spent about 3 weeks driving about 1hr and half 1 way back and forth to the closest SE kiosk over about a month to return 2 dead atomizers, 4-5 dead batteries, 2 dead chargers and countless other thing problems. I then decided that I needed to try something else so I bought a kissbox extended package from Janty. In about a month I returned 2 or 3 atomizers, 2 auto switches, and 2 manual switches. I was still very disappointed in the whole experiance but I stayed on board. I bought 2 Janty sticks well it's so far been the best and most relyable device that I've bought to date. I have returned probabally 3 more atomizers since getting the Stick and Janty has been amazing they still haven't told me to go somewhere else yet and tell me that I will get 2 replacement v2 sticks to take care of the minor bugs with the stick that I'm having. I just also bought a prodigy and a PS PT and I'm loving it. It's probablly the closest if not better to a analog that I've tried yet. But again my bad luck continues and on day 1 I had an atomizer come completely apart and the bottom part stuck onto the adapter. Now I know this is due to me over tightening it but it still stinks on day 1. I'm also having no luck with the use of carts with my new Prodigy which I will get used to but would have been nice to still have that function, but maybe I will figure out my mistakes and make it all work again like most of the other devices that I've bought. I also think my Prodigy battery charger was messed up too but I have bent the bottom metal piece of the charger up so that the batteries don't rattle around and contantly read green. My batteries are now charging again for now. But Doris I definitely hear you but like some I'm hopeing this is a means to an end of smoking all together for me. But I do wish that the quality control was a heck of a lot better then it currently is. I also have a 510 kit on it's way which will hopefully be as great as everyone says it is. I've put about $2000 into this so far in just over 3 months and I'm not sure if I'm crazy or not but I'm thinking about diving into mixing my own liquid. I do love to vape and hope to find a quality unit but there is a major dedication that needs to happen to stay with vaping IMHO. I do also realize by past posting that my story isn't a normal one for most but it is true and definitely something to think about.
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CoderGuy, wow, your rant experience sounds just like mine! Right down to spending big $$ and having 2 parents on PVs. My mom didn't even know she had a bum battery that was overheating the atty. Sigh. My parents couldn't do it if I didn't come over and fix/refill their stuff every weekend.
But I think about my alternatives... quitting or going back to analogs. And like many people, I refuse to do either so I eat my crappy pellets and spin around on my little wheel hoping the hand from above brings me better pellets and a better wheel.
The committment to PVs helps to satisfy my ritual/OCD tendencies so I kind of like it. But I have first hand experience with people who don't. And if they didn't have me they wouldn't do it. So I feel for Doris and everyone who is frustrated. I hope they find what they need to succeed.
But I think about my alternatives... quitting or going back to analogs. And like many people, I refuse to do either so I eat my crappy pellets and spin around on my little wheel hoping the hand from above brings me better pellets and a better wheel.
The committment to PVs helps to satisfy my ritual/OCD tendencies so I kind of like it. But I have first hand experience with people who don't. And if they didn't have me they wouldn't do it. So I feel for Doris and everyone who is frustrated. I hope they find what they need to succeed.
I started vaping in May. No doubt I would have become discouraged had I not discovered the 510. My 801 and 901 batteries all have stuck switches except one of each. No way would I be able to vape with that. I would also be hesitant to buy more batteries that would just get stuck as well. My 510 with PCC has kept me in the game. I am not saying this device will be the answer for everyone, but for me, it is. As for the money I've spent, I consider it a small price to pay for reducing my cancer, copd and heart disease risk. To me that's worth a whole lot more than I have spent or will spend. Not to mention the fact that it beats paying $60.00+ per carton for something that is designed to be burned up and discarded. I am unable to justify buying analogs anymore. If nicotine gum works for someone, that's great. I tried it before I started vaping and it caused me extreme bowel issues. The first day and 1/2 was OK and I was off analogs. But then my bowels protested and I had to quit the gum and go back to analogs. Vaping is my only hope of staying off analogs. I am determined to succeed with it. Yes, I will get angry and frustrated. Yes, I will spend big chunks of money now and then on equipment, some of which won't work. But I knew what I was getting into when I got my first PV because I studied this forum. Research and determination are key. The info is here for anyone who is willing to do some research. The determination has to come from within.
Good to know I am not alone!
Thank you for that.I hear you, that's exactly what I am doing too, at least e-cigs keep me from turning back to the death side... er I mean dark side of analogs.
CodeGuy
Sorry to hear that so many of you are having problems. Yes, we keep buying these finicky things, but the product IS improving. In time, they'll get to where they need to be.
I've had 901/minis and 801/pen styles, both of which had flaws (mostly the batteries being so unpredictable). Still, they worked. Out of a total of 20 batteries, only 2 were bad. All in all, that's pretty good.
The 510/Yeti that I have now is so good that if they never get any better, I'll be satisfied to stay with e-cigs. Even with the short-comings, it's still a lot better than analogs.
I've had 901/minis and 801/pen styles, both of which had flaws (mostly the batteries being so unpredictable). Still, they worked. Out of a total of 20 batteries, only 2 were bad. All in all, that's pretty good.
The 510/Yeti that I have now is so good that if they never get any better, I'll be satisfied to stay with e-cigs. Even with the short-comings, it's still a lot better than analogs.
Hi, I'm new to the e-cig and would be greatful to any help on where to buy refill juice? The carts don't last as long as they told me they would
Thanks again in advance for any help...
I get my liquid from totallywicked-eliquid.com
They offer great flavors and do it yourself possibilites
My luck has actually been pretty good with equipment. I've just ordered a lot of it for the inevitable failures. I take it as a fact it will happen. I happen to have the luxury of spending the $$ now tho and many folks don't.
And when the big failure happens I will be shouting one of my fav Firefly quotes to the giant hand from my little cedar lined nest... "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
And when the big failure happens I will be shouting one of my fav Firefly quotes to the giant hand from my little cedar lined nest... "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
Maybe it will help if you look at it like this.
IBMPC-1982
Scroll down and look at the prices. If you're as old as I am, remember running DOS.
Unless stopped by the government, technology and prices will only improve.
IBMPC-1982
Scroll down and look at the prices. If you're as old as I am, remember running DOS.
Unless stopped by the government, technology and prices will only improve.
I definitely agree these are a heck of a better then cigarettes I mean I've got some of my taste and smell back. I've lost some weight too I just love all of the flavors that are out there ( 30lbs in 3 months). I know that's going against the grain of what happen to most people when converting but against the grain seems to be my experience with this whole ecig thing. I think so far the thing that is keeping me in it besides my health is I'm getting addicted to the whole technology piece. I just want to try all of the new devices for better or worse. I'll keep going with this mainly because I haven't tried everything yet.
Thbomb07,
on the forum main page click on suppliers. Almost all of them sell the juice. The cartridges don't last long, for sure. You have to keep the cig topped with the juice, also. I have found that a very good filler is cotton. I hate the polyfiber, tried paper towels, tried tea bags and decided to try cotton. It works really well, but as with all fillers, you have to keep them topped off. I bargain shop when buying more juice. The supplier with the best prices and most flavors wins! Litecigusa has a lot of flavors and choices in strength. They also have good prices. Hope this helps!
on the forum main page click on suppliers. Almost all of them sell the juice. The cartridges don't last long, for sure. You have to keep the cig topped with the juice, also. I have found that a very good filler is cotton. I hate the polyfiber, tried paper towels, tried tea bags and decided to try cotton. It works really well, but as with all fillers, you have to keep them topped off. I bargain shop when buying more juice. The supplier with the best prices and most flavors wins! Litecigusa has a lot of flavors and choices in strength. They also have good prices. Hope this helps!
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