I want an answer!

[crashtestjeep]

TOTALLY off topic but wow, I thought i was the only crazy insomniac still lurking around Top o the mornin to ya Cass.....

Feel free to delete this or ask me to and I will, just thought id say Hi...not tryin to thread jack

 

[just-cass]

TOTALLY off topic but wow, I thought i was the only crazy insomniac still lurking around Top o the mornin to ya Cass.....

Feel free to delete this or ask me to and I will, just thought id say Hi...not tryin to thread jack

omg you threadjacker!!!!haha no its nice to see a friendly face at this hour and a welcome lightening to the post....

im actually living in ireland and its 8.40am here so its just you being the crazy insomniac heehee....but if you look back i was on this thing til 2am this morning irish time so i dunno which of us is worse???

ps. i just checked there 265 of us lurker here!!!

 

[just-cass]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DICKW
Well maybe I am different, I think the person should go to the Vendor to air there issues with the product in question. Then if it isn't resolved to their satisfaction, maybe make a statement stating your disagreement.

I have read and read and read.................. before I chose to do business with a Vendor.
My initial purchase was done to get started although everything worked out fine, I am not sure I am in the minority if you do some research.

I have read some reviews stating the dislike of a product or it's function. Even what should be different with the product.

The concept of Vaping I beleive is pretty much the same, the mods made are using this same concept just different materials. Whether it be of good quality or of a lesser quality.

As far as good customer service goes, those companies that don't provide
it will not be around very long.

I really think it's that simple.

Completely agree

I do agree with both dickw and clumsygirl but this is not the issue we are talking about...we are not discussing bad customer service or return custom. We are discussing the effects on multiple negative comments on members who choose to report back a fault with a product. We are speaking about this forum and the effects that certain posts have on a members willingness to come forward and say they have a problem. It can be misconstrued as a question of how you decide who your supplier is but this is not the intention of the thread. IMO there is more to it than learning your lesson...how about telling others your experience in a way that it will not be constantly questioned and deflated so they can avoid the mistakes you made?

 

[Taryn]

when you say "most people" i actually think 99% of people here are believing they are being helpful to the situation...its only when 10 people get back to you and say they have no problem so yours is not valid that it begins to seem a little one sided. I honestly believe people here have the best intentions even in post that seem attacking...they are just stating their point of view, but i also think that for an overwhelmed newcomer who reports back a bad experience(that is valid) they will just be told it is their fault which isn't always the case.

I dont think it is fair to single out gooddog for her "sensitivity". There are many others with sensitivities to this topic who have pm'd me and not spoken in an open forum on the topic so to single her out as an example is unfair in my opinion. She is NOT the only sensitive person. Infact most people who agree with me are sensitive to this issue???
You were in no way derogatory or negative to ehr situation but you did make light of her serious issue...

We have been talking all along about members who have heard time and time again "i didnt have a problem" and "speak to CS first dont post here, no one else has had a problem" and of course these are not bullying but when looked at when there are ten of them on a page in comparison to one poster the odds are stacked and what choice does the person have but to drop the valid complaint.

I have made countless pints in these longwinded pages and i wont reiterate what I have said but I think that by your singling out gooddog on her "sensetivity" you have "singled out" alot of people here and "singled out" a "didnt see it,it didnt happen" idea?

So i put it to you, have you personally never seen posts where a poster comments and 99% of replies are in support of the supplier saying the poster is wrong. Or saying "Ive never had a problem with them"...Individually sure this is one example but these examples are dotted all over ECF.

I want to edit this to tell you that this is not personal, I am just saying my piece as you have and I dont want to seem as if i am against you, i just happen to disagree with some things you have said. We are all at ECF on the SAME SIDE and I view all of you as my friends here.

We quite obviously see things very different ways. I feel a forums is a place for discussion and debate. That a public post is put there for discussion. If you make a post you are asking for a response. Not all of these responses will agree with you.

Why is it any less valuable to state that you have not had a similar problem than it is to state you have had a similar problem? My good experiences are then invalid because someone had a poor experience? I guess my experience that the majority of ECF users are very welcoming and try to be helpful to newbies must be invalid because someone in some post somewhere got flamed.

Not every critical post in this forum is met with attacks, I have seen many that were filled with helpful suggestions and sympathy. I will say those are generally ones that do not start off with an angry attitude and an attack. Attacking puts people in a defensive mode. When things get to the flaming level there is generally fault with both the OP and the other posters. There are of course exceptions where an angry person just jumps in and starts flaming. Those people should be dealt with by the moderators, it is quite easy to report them.

Free speech has and always will come with problems but I do believe it beats censorship. I would not participate in a forum where I could not state an opposing viewpoint.

I in no way singled GoodDog out, I simply disagreed with a statement she made and was quite pleasant about it and then I was told that my disagreement is an example of telling a new person that they are wrong and invalidating their opinion. If a simple and pleasantly stated disagreement is enough to make a person feel "invalidated" then yes I do feel they are being over sensitive. I did not "make light" of her situation, I stated that I did not feel the same way.

Yes there are sensitive people in this world and on this forum but that will never stop me from voicing my opinion in a fair and honest way.

No person should ever drop a valid complaint because other people state they have had different experiences. Nor does their bad experience invalidate other customers good experiences. There is much to be gleaned from reading how problems are or are not resolved. I have read far more happy ending posts than I have read ones with no resolution.

No supplier is perfect, there will always be mistakes made or products that do not work. It is how they handle it that shows their quality of customer service. We have to measure the successes against the failures and when you do not allow opposing viewpoints it is pretty tough to do that.

I have read your posts in this thread and I respect your ideas and feelings but that does not mean I agree with them. I do not feel that I have "singled out" a lot of people here nor have I "singled out" a "didn't see it didn't happen" idea. I simply did not agree with a comment and voiced it.

I have of course seen poorly handled threads but I still disagree with the idea that someone should not state in a complaint thread that they do not feel the same way as the OP. They have as much right as the OP to state their opinion in a public thread.

I am not taking this discussion personally cass, as I have said you have my respect and friendship. We just obviously do not agree on this issue, but I will still be watching what happens in your subforums to see how this experiment turns out. I wish it the best.

 

[crashtestjeep]

OK, everyone, did you see this? Cass and Taryn, disagreed about a topic, both voiced opinions, somehwat oposing at that, not by much but still somewhat opposing, and BINGO! Handled like adults, not taken to extreme, both welcoming the others responses, both voiced thier opinions and NOONE got crazy and upset with each other....now THIS is what it should be like....

I agree with them both personally, both have valid points and had they not talked out thier points, I may have only unsderstood one side...

Thats how its done!

Ive learned that no matter how we see a rant, whether we agree or not, whether pout own experiences match the OP or not, we must also factor in that that OP (NOT speaking of Cass, speaking of supplier rant threads in GENERAL) **may** be in an emotional state where they feel taken advantage of, ripped off, etc so we must take into acct how we would feel if it happened to us.....Sometimes if your not familiar , as in the exact situation NOT happening to one in past, maybe one should just not say anything? bc how do we really know what the OP means if we really dont know? On the other hand, the other side, had only had GREAT service from a company and seeing someone else didnt, maybe again, not saying anything would help NOT fuel the emotional fire? Now, if one DID have SAME issue or similar, then posting would actually be very helpful so the OP and person in same shoes can discussed how it was worked out? Excuse me if Im babbling, Im up at 544am still but I think u guys get my point, lol

 

[just-cass]

We quite obviously see things very different ways. I feel a forums is a place for discussion and debate. That a public post is put there for discussion. If you make a post you are asking for a response. Not all of these responses will agree with you.

Why is it any less valuable to state that you have not had a similar problem than it is to state you have had a similar problem? My good experiences are then invalid because someone had a poor experience? I guess my experience that the majority of ECF users are very welcoming and try to be helpful to newbies must be invalid because someone in some post somewhere got flamed.

Not every critical post in this forum is met with attacks, I have seen many that were filled with helpful suggestions and sympathy. I will say those are generally ones that do not start off with an angry attitude and an attack. Attacking puts people in a defensive mode. When things get to the flaming level there is generally fault with both the OP and the other posters. There are of course exceptions where an angry person just jumps in and starts flaming. Those people should be dealt with by the moderators, it is quite easy to report them.

Free speech has and always will come with problems but I do believe it beats censorship. I would not participate in a forum where I could not state an opposing viewpoint.

I in no way singled GoodDog out, I simply disagreed with a statement she made and was quite pleasant about it and then I was told that my disagreement is an example of telling a new person that they are wrong and invalidating their opinion. If a simple and pleasantly stated disagreement is enough to make a person feel "invalidated" then yes I do feel they are being over sensitive. I did not "make light" of her situation, I stated that I did not feel the same way.

Yes there are sensitive people in this world and on this forum but that will never stop me from voicing my opinion in a fair and honest way.

No person should ever drop a valid complaint because other people state they have had different experiences. Nor does their bad experience invalidate other customers good experiences. There is much to be gleaned from reading how problems are or are not resolved. I have read far more happy ending posts than I have read ones with no resolution.

No supplier is perfect, there will always be mistakes made or products that do not work. It is how they handle it that shows their quality of customer service. We have to measure the successes against the failures and when you do not allow opposing viewpoints it is pretty tough to do that.

I have read your posts in this thread and I respect your ideas and feelings but that does not mean I agree with them. I do not feel that I have "singled out" a lot of people here nor have I "singled out" a "didn't see it didn't happen" idea. I simply did not agree with a comment and voiced it.

I have of course seen poorly handled threads but I still disagree with the idea that someone should not state in a complaint thread that they do not feel the same way as the OP. They have as much right as the OP to state their opinion in a public thread.

I am not taking this discussion personally cass, as I have said you have my respect and friendship. We just obviously do not agree on this issue, but I will still be watching what happens in your subforums to see how this experiment turns out. I wish it the best.

thankyou taryn for your full and honest response. I agree with you on many points you have posted...too many to point them all out!!!we shall agree to disagree to an extent and i am glad we had this discussion as now we both have our opinions out there in a clear and mature manner and i respect all of your opinions on the topic and am glad we came to somewhat of a conclusion and can maintain a healthy and happy debate...

the negative forum is in its very early stages and may be a dead end thread...or athread that serves no purpose but time will tell...there is also a thread on your no. 1 suppliers too if anyone wishes to write in this : o)

 

[just-cass]

OK, everyone, did you see this? Cass and Taryn, disagreed about a topic, both voiced opinions, somehwat oposing at that, not by much but still somewhat opposing, and BINGO! Handled like adults, not taken to extreme, both welcoming the others responses, both voiced thier opinions and NOONE got crazy and upset with each other....now THIS is what it should be like....

I agree with them both personally, both have valid points and had they not talked out thier points, I may have only unsderstood one side...

Thats how its done!

Ive learned that no matter how we see a rant, whether we agree or not, whether pout own experiences match the OP or not, we must also factor in that that OP (NOT speaking of Cass, speaking of supplier rant threads in GENERAL) **may** be in an emotional state where they feel taken advantage of, ripped off, etc so we must take into acct how we would feel if it happened to us.....Sometimes if your not familiar , as in the exact situation NOT happening to one in past, maybe one should just not say anything? bc how do we really know what the OP means if we really dont know? On the other hand, the other side, had only had GREAT service from a company and seeing someone else didnt, maybe again, not saying anything would help NOT fuel the emotional fire? Now, if one DID have SAME issue or similar, then posting would actually be very helpful so the OP and person in same shoes can discussed how it was worked out? Excuse me if Im babbling, Im up at 544am still but I think u guys get my point, lol

hi crash!

im in total agreement there are many faults with the problem with suppliers thread not having responses...this is a negative in a way...but it does provide a few positives that may outweigh the negatives we will have to wait and see....the positive is it provides a springboard for a consumer to see a problem and decide as an adult their opinion on this...there are many many posts replied to in the review of suppliers ection and elsewhere to reference...these posts are at the forefront of ecf in the main forums and to even locate the sticky forum thread you havta find it!!!therefore it is a secondary thread to the main ones and on reading it the reader knows that these responses are just one persons view and are not allowed to have responses so to make a full judgement they must view other threads....i will put a note at the end of the rules now to suggest to readers of the thread that the views expressed in it are just one persons opinion and should be compared with other relevant material to form a "bigger picture" including a reference to the positive post.....

 

[just-cass]

i have added this info to the rules at the beginning of the thread

FINAL NOTE: The opinions and material expressed in this thread is the opinion of the poster and not necessarily the view of others. Please use it as a reference guide only to form an opinion. There are many other posts which have detailed responses on this forum. Please visit

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...nions-reviews/
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...ews-suppliers/ and
My No. 1 Supplier NOTE: Moderated thread, some extra rules apply here
To find threads responded to and also visit suppliers sub forums. These threads are just ONE SIDE of the coin

 

[karenrcg]

I ran into the crappy products too. Once I get a lousy replacement, I move on to another brand, the ones the other posts, say are best. I think there are a few ecigs that don't live up to our expectations. All we can do is keep looking for something that does, and mark it down to experience. A good reason for joining. It is free advice from those who went through the same process before us. I'm happy,and gratefull there are those who share their experiences on this forum. Keep up the good work you all! When we first started smoking , we found cigarettes that didn't measure up to what we thought was a good smoke too.

I agree with what you have said, my first e-cig was a 901 and they drove me crazy!! every other battery was duff on arrival, and they weren't all from the same supplier.
Which brings us to the question of whether it is a supplier or manufacturer issue. If you are dealing with a supplier that is manufacturing and selling their own device then obviously they need to know about problems. When you are dealing with a supplier that is selling mass produced items that are available from lots different sources then personally I would class it as a manufacturing issue and move onto another product.
We have to remember that this is pretty new technology that we are dealing with and there are bound to be problems along the way.
Now I only deal with suppliers that offer a good warranty and stand by their products, then if I do have a problem I know I have back up.
If something kept on failing time and time again I would definately look for another device, although depending on the product involved it doesn't neccessarily mean I would use a different supplier.

 

[just-cass]

I agree with what you have said, my first e-cig was a 901 and they drove me crazy!! every other battery was duff on arrival, and they weren't all from the same supplier.
Which brings us to the question of whether it is a supplier or manufacturer issue. If you are dealing with a supplier that is manufacturing and selling their own device then obviously they need to know about problems. When you are dealing with a supplier that is selling mass produced items that are available from lots different sources then personally I would class it as a manufacturing issue and move onto another product.
We have to remember that this is pretty new technology that we are dealing with and there are bound to be problems along the way.
Now I only deal with suppliers that offer a good warranty and stand by their products, then if I do have a problem I know I have back up.
If something kept on failing time and time again I would definately look for another device, although depending on the product involved it doesn't neccessarily mean I would use a different supplier.

thanks for replying karen its good to get different viewpoints on the topic. it is indeed a minefield when it comes to faults on manufacturers end of things...

 

[keyzygirl]

I think Taryn has some very good points here,I also believe that 2 sides need to be expressed and that expressing an opposing view is not an attack on anyone and simply an opposing view.If you are so overly sensitive that you cant handle it,then maybe you should not become involved in a debate.Its by choice that you enter a thread and make negative comments,and it is the choice of others to debate it.If you dont care for flames,stop lighting the matches.I like that we can agree to disagree and not be upset by it,if it upsets you,walk away.Everyone is different and that makes it much more interesting!!

 

[just-cass]

I think Taryn has some very good points here,I also believe that 2 sides need to be expressed and that expressing an opposing view is not an attack on anyone and simply an opposing view.If you are so overly sensitive that you cant handle it,then maybe you should not become involved in a debate.Its by choice that you enter a thread and make negative comments,and it is the choice of others to debate it.If you dont care for flames,stop lighting the matches.I like that we can agree to disagree and not be upset by it,if it upsets you,walk away.

but what if you choose to enter a thread with a valid negative review of a product and are drowned out by others who post? there is no place on this forum for a point to be made and not debated...some people dont want to deal with a debate just enter their feelings on a subject. The thread is merely a way for people to express their valid points and not enter into a debate about it but allow people agree or disagree as they will...a forum is essentially an area to debate topics but it is so much more too...people come here just for info, to have conversations and have fun conversing with friends on here....this thread is just another area with another angle and another part of ecf for users to post in if they so wish.

everyone has said how they will view it before even reading any posts...most people make up their mind and will read threads...i give the members here more credit than to just think they will blindly believe and only listen to this one thread. People by their very nature are curious and if they read the threads there are ample links to direct them to more information.

 

[nightowl]

Wow Cass did you have any idea how big a can of worms you were opening up? Lol Really glad you opened a thread for the positive as well since it's sometimes hard to post positive experiences especially on some of the newer or smaller companies without it turning into ''you're wrong my suppliers better''.

 

[just-cass]

Wow Cass did you have any idea how big a can of worms you were opening up? Lol Really glad you opened a thread for the positive as well since it's sometimes hard to post positive experiences especially on some of the newer or smaller companies without it turning into ''you're wrong my suppliers better''.

i never thought about this before nightowl about the smaller suppliers!!!great so...glad its gonna be a good thing to come from this....

i kinda DID know the can of worms i was about to unleash...but its been a very informative thread and im glad it has turned out so.ive learned alot about the members here and the debate has been a valid one in my opinion and every comment is great to hear...its only in topics like this i suppose we get to see the people behind the avatars, their opinions and stances on a subject - its nice getting to know you all and all of your thoughts and ideas : o)

 

[Lightgeoduck]

let me finish reading the pages,,, before I post... I can't believe I missed this one..

 

[just-cass]

if its okay too i want to add that i appreciate that people put themselves out there to be commented on when they post a topic but i have seen and hope to see in future a more protective community growing where members can appreciate others who are more sensitive about issues and take this into consideration...it may not change ones response to a thread but it may help them put themselves in the persons shoes a lil more and therefore give more constructive criticism(im not saying this as an example of anything) just that in future posts there may be more a sense of community and belonging in sharing problems rather than just a rebuttal to a comment. and members who see unhelpful rebuttals may have more of a desire to chime in with more helpful info(even if it is negative to the poster) making each and every thread a more informative one : o)

 

[dgriego]

I have been lucky so far I guess. I have ordered juice from several suppliers. The ones I did not like I just do not order from again, since they sent me the juice, they sent it quickly, I just did not care for it.
As for equipment, well there has been some frustration, my only real beef at the moment is having to ship things back that I paid a lot of money for, and then wait until it arrives at the suppliers and then wait for the replacement to be sent to me in the slow boat post, in order to get the thing I paid a lot of money for to work as it is suppose to.
That bugs me, since they could just as easy just send me the replacement part. But it is what it is. The only thing I can do is just not order from that supplier again.
I still have not got the replacement. Have not had time to get to the post office with all the snow here to mail back the part that is not working, so I have something that was not cheap, that will not do what I purchased it to do.
On the other hand there are suppliers who call you back on the phone 10 minutes after you post a question on their site, and send you a replacement piece without making you sent the faulty one back. Kudos for them.
In the end it is the little things like this that will determine who I order from in the future and who I refrain from ordering from.

 

[keyzygirl]

I think the thread is a good idea,I just hope people realize that there are alot of people who complain alot about nothing.There are some that look for things to turn into negatives.If its monitored properly and kept from becoming a place for negative people to bash suppliers and the customers that use them, its great.Ive seen to many negative people who cant stand for others to be happy and make comments about fanboys.Arent fanboys just loyal customers who enjoy the product?I hope it all works out great and its helpful to everyone,and it is a good idea,in theory.Lets see what happens.

 

[just-cass]

I think the thread is a good idea,I just hope people realize that there are alot of people who complain alot about nothing.There are some that look for things to turn into negatives.If its monitored properly and kept from becoming a place for negative people to bash suppliers and the customers that use them, its great.Ive seen to many negative people who cant stand for others to be happy and make comments about fanboys.Arent fanboys just loyal customers who enjoy the product?I hope it all works out great and its helpful to everyone,and it is a good idea,in theory.Lets see what happens.

agree totally keyzgirl!!!if you or any other member sees something phishy going on in a post dont be afraid to say it. from what this thread has shown we are all a bunch of intelligent folk who havent got blinkers on so perhaps the thread just might work

 

[Lightgeoduck]

Ok now I didn't read every post, but I read enough to see different point of views on the "issue" so... me being the opinionated person that I am I will post my views here as well.

1. this is not talking about a senseless heat of the moment rant
2. this is not talking about a public post that could have been handled internally with the supplier (which should be posted with the end resolution as well)
3. I am not hitting or implying on one particular supplier or device

This is talking about an issue with any device where a select group may feel they are wrong or that they are doing something wrong

I frequent this forum A LOT and definitely A LOT more than I post I see this and that and retain much of it... the good and the bad.

I feel that much of the issue is that members are there worse enemy... they see an item hyped up sooo much that there expectations are built up extremely and when they receive the item they are confused to why they are not experiencing the same joy.

yeah its a fact of life that people will tend to have different views of said product,,, but it seems to be tossed around like a cliche

I am not having problems so you must be doing something wrong
learning curve
get with the supplier they will take care of you

which I am not saying that doesn't hold true... but people seem to have a short memory in regards to certain issues... or its clouded by people that will turn the blind eye to having a substandard item and jump on the wagon of "it's the best" (whether its denial... or just giving it up to "user error")

Yes if you look at an isolated post ... it does seem ridiculous... or it gets drowned out by "praisers" but if you spend some time looking around and weed through the drown out ... you may realize that it shouldn't be acceptable by any means.

I see issues as issues even if I didn't personally experience them.... put I voice the ones that I experience. Maybe just maybe some of these rants are sparked by people seeing an issue and sees that it isn't being heard.

Honestly it is great when a supplier takes care of there customer and that should not be ignored, BUT in the end aren't you paying for a product no matter how the customer service is (that goes the other way around to I wouldn't care how great a product is I wouldn't purchase from a supplier with piss poor customer relations)

Yes just like one shouldn't react to ONE great review.. one shouldn't react to ONE dissatisfied customer... but IMO the ratio is lower for me to react when it comes to bad reviews.... of course weighing it for what its worth.


Lately I have been tossing back and forth to public opinions in the negative since people are going to believe what they want..no matter what.... but I can't always hold my opinions back.....

I tell you what though I always look at things as a consumer and offer my help from one consumer to another...I don't care if people boost me or knock me down....... I am bad at closing and I think this might be the begining of me rabbling so I will just say




I am not a Duck