I want to say three words... .... THE FDA

[Drozd]

+1 for what kristin said...

plus remember that this was only an appeal of the original case in front of Judge Leon which only had to do with the FDA siezing shipments...
and only njoy at that...
they just affirmed that Judge Leon was interpreting the law correctly in that they are tobacco products as long as no health claims are made...but if health claims are made then they would fall under the drug- device class
while it does set presidence for other companies ...but if the FDA wanted too they could continue to sieze shipments of other non njoy suppliers

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

I'm so used to my daily doses of bad news I'm still going to forget the unpredictable future for tonight and do another happy dance before going to bed. Maybe I'll wake up and fall off of my vapor cloud, but not just yet. I so need to be happy for another minute. Tomorrow: Reality again. G'night folks.

 

[tj1100cl]

There are dozens of potential routes that this could go, so lots of places to speculate or even wild guess. But one thing is certain. This is the United States of America...where there is no such thing as a free lunch. Right now the coalition facing us is Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, Tax-hungry legislatures, and nearly every health organization in the country. Not to mention the majority of the population. Do you guys really think they are simply going to let us walk away and go about our business? Buying e-cigs (and not cigarettes)...stopping smoking (without using the patch or gum)....vaping (in public places)....and NOT paying any tax?

Not this country folks.....aint gonna happen. I don't know exactly how they are going to come at us, or when....but come they will.



This message brought to you by the fine people at "Paranoid Cynicsm Incorporated". Serving the generally warped public since 1999.

holy crap.

this is EXACTLY how i feel. and i don't even think i realized it until i just read it. this is crap! this is NOT the america i grew up in. i remember going to public school, having music class, and singing 'America the Beautiful', and having real pride in it.

what happened?

i heard they got rid of music class years ago; now they're trying to get rid of public education all together; and they're eliminating every single thing there was to have pride in, in this country.

this is NOT a tobacco product. there's no tobacco in the flavors that aren't tobacco flavored. nicotine is no different than caffeine. isn't it really a food product? shouldn't it be regulated in a manner no different than all of the energy drinks that came out in the last decade?

this crap is so bogus it makes me mad. the govt now does whatever corporate elitists dictate, while they tax us to do the few fun things they deem legal; and fine us when we do the few fun things we can affod that they deem illegal.

gah! i'm sick of it. i need a cigarette. craaaap!

it's moments like this where i am screeeeming for a smoke, and i wish i just had my e-cig already. tomorrow. i think. tomorrow is payday and i'm going to try to purchase my first PV. i have to make sure i have the $ available to spend on myself for something that's not essential. yeah. these days, doing anything for YOURSELF seems to fall in the category of non-essential.

agh. jeez sorry i ranted. i really wish i could fix everything for us all, but realize it's impossible.

this legal decision is a victory, but there's more to do to establish the e-cig industry. IF the industry continues to forge ahead in a righteous manner, improving product design and quality while making it easier to replace deadly tobacco products, then hopefully the public will act when it's time to fight powerful opposition.

i wish i could be president. i'd pass a lot of executive orders. but i'd get this place right.

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

Yup, back to reality. USA Inc has changed a lot. Plutocracy sucks. I still think flavored juice would be possible to make yourself, so they have to take that into consideration. I do wish they'd just leave us alone, like they would in a......what's that called again? Oh yeah, a Free Market.

 

[Zen~]

I feel that this industry needs to make a plan and make it FAST...

ALL e-liquid suppliers should immediately change their marketing model to one where the flavored e-liquid is sold at 0 nic, and unflavored nicotine is added by the consumer at home. This will satisfy the "no flavored nicotine" clause. Then if they choose to tax the nicotine component if can be applied fairly and across the board on a mg/ml basis of the unflavored nic.

PVs will be considered to be "aroma therapy" devices... The Nicotine level consumed will be up to the end-user, and while we don't exactly end up with everybody happy, we WILL end up having essentially the same products we already use and enjoy.

Everything will still be shippable via USPS and unregulated, with the exception of the unflavored nic juice, which will become available locally. Everybody gets to keep their website and distribution channels while remaining in compliance with the law.

This will pretty seamlessly work, but ONLY if everybody equally applies the change in business model...

 

[maxx]

For the people that went electronic for health reasons....this is a big win. Assuming no more appeals, the future of e-cigs is assured. For those like myself, who simply wanted to beat the crushing tax or burdening restrictions, it isn't quite as clear. Although this ruling puts e-cigs squarely in the legal tobacco column, it also puts us on a path to eliminate the tax and restriction safe havens. For example...my mother has been in and out of a hospitals and healthcare facilities for two years, so I am constantly waiting around on hospital grounds. In my area, hospitals no longer post signs for Smoke-free Facility...they use signs that say Tobacco-free Facility. See where I am going ? When the FDA was calling it an unapproved drug device, I could stare down the rent-a-cop who walked up to me and say I wasn't breaking the rules. Now, however....I can no longer say I am using a non-tobacco product. Businesses no longer have to distinguish between smoking and vaping. They can just slap up a Tobacco-free Zone" sign. As strange as it sounds....I actually had more vaping freedom before the FDA lost it's appeal. Go figure.....huh....

 

[jamvector]

Just for the record, it is my understanding that the nicotine used in production by juice manufacturing facilities is extracted from tobacco, so technically it is a tobacco product. Maxx has stated the most realistic scenarios of how this goes forward imo; it is what it is, what will be will be. Hopefully there will be a lot more of us to speak out and lobby more effectively the next time the FDA tries to choke the industry again.

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

Yes, the nicotine. When I read the comment about "No Tobacco" signs I immediately thought of the nicotine gum, patches and throat lozenges that all contain nicotine, from the toboacco leaf. Right? This is a very compicated topic. I'm sure Big Business will simplify all this for us, much to their gain.

 

[maxx]

The patch, gum, inhalers and lozenges are considered drugs by the FDA....so there would be no restrictions on their use. This is where they wanted to put e-cigs in the first place. Now, however, the e-cigs will likely move to tobacco products....and the gum, lozenges, inhalers and patch stay put in the drug category. So no facility that wants to ban "Tobacco Product Use" could accidentally ban the others as well.

In short:

It is now very hard for the FDA to do a national ban on e-cigs as untested drugs (Yaaaaaay......go team...go...! )

But it is easier for local bans to be set up...much easier (Boooooo....hiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssss)

That's my read on it.....I could be wrong.

 

[Joyce]

In short:

It is now very hard for the FDA to do a national ban on e-cigs as untested drugs (Yaaaaaay......go team...go...! )

But it is easier for local bans to be set up...much easier (Boooooo....hiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssss)

That's my read on it.....I could be wrong.

And harder to fight ignorance that will persist in putting the same health stigma on vaping as smoking.

 

[maxx]

And harder to fight ignorance that will persist in putting the same health stigma on vaping as smoking.

Yeah....that too. Guilt by association....official association to boot.....

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

I vaped for the first time in public, at a restaurant last night. Nobody noticed. At the end of dinner the waitress asked me if I inhaled something with 'that thing' - I showed her how it worked, after giving her a V4L bizz card and thanking her for letting me vape. After she saw me inhale, she became extremely digusted and walked away in a huff (she'd been very friendly up to that point). I can see how some holier than thou ignorant people will react. It's not about second hand smoke, it's about telling others what to do. The attitude is 'if I don't like it you can't do it.' After being treated like a roach for years for being a smoker I wish my decision to vape was applauded by these soap box hypocrites. No matter what, most of them see it as smoking - it's all in the mind. Of course the FDA and lawmakers can run with this, after all they thrive on ignorance.

 

[maxx]

That's sounds like one bizarre waitress there. Bet her name was Sybil......

 

[biidaaban]

i think the thing that bothers me the most - after hearing yesterday's news about how bad smoking really is (and that they have had this info for quite some time now) and the fact that they are very hush hush about whether or not the Prez has given up his habit - the FDA wants to take away or regulate the frick out of the only viable solution to giving up smoking. Too scary 8-o

but does anything make any sense any more? (FDA has a different meaning in our house)