I'd like a definitive answer once and for all: do amps matter?

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Tbev

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Of course you can. Wind 4 identical 1-ohm coils. On one head, put 2 of them in parallel. On another head, put two in series. The second has 4 times the resistance of the first, but at the same power they will both vape identically.
Power being 4 volts... No.


The 0.5 0hm build will hit way better than the 2 ohm build. That's why a 2 ohm coil or build, in general, is more commonly used in a regulated device so you can run more voltage to it to get the same result, vapor wise, as a 0.5 0hm build.
 

Dampmaskin

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Just for fun (and to test the calculator) I ran a couple of builds in Steam Engine:

Quad coil (in parallel), 26 AWG, and a target of 0.1 Ohm total resistance:
Resistance per coil: 0.4 Ohm. Suggests 5 wraps per coil, and the heat flux per Watt is 22.134 mW/mm².

Quad coil (in series), 26 AWG, and a target of 1.6 Ohm total resistance:
Resistance per coil: 0.4 Ohm. Suggests 5 wraps per coil, and the heat flux per Watt is 22.134 mW/mm².

Looks like identical performance at the same power. At least in theory.

Power being 4 volts... No.
Remember that power is not measured in volts, it is measured in watts.
 
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Tbev

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Looks like identical performance..... That's not measuring performance it's simply doing the math for you.

Saying 4 volts, from a charged 3.7v battery, that's any 3.7v battery used for vaping, that's what they are called, described as, or referred to as.

As far as the op is concerned, you have to be a bit more precise. The reality, from the standpoint of a normal vaper is concerned, amps need only be taken into account when determining levels of safety build coils and buying or using batteries.
In any case the AW IMR 18350 is the best for that size and prolly everything else up to 18650 in which case sony vtc's are the way to go @ 30 amp drain cap.
 

dr g

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Power being 4 volts... No.


The 0.5 0hm build will hit way better than the 2 ohm build. That's why a 2 ohm coil or build, in general, is more commonly used in a regulated device so you can run more voltage to it to get the same result, vapor wise, as a 0.5 0hm build.

Voltage =\= power. The power is specified to be the same between the two builds.

more power per turn of coil in the parallel build different attributes to the vape. total vapor production would be roughly the same.
:2c:
regards
mike

Please read the link again.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...r-once-all-do-amps-matter-8.html#post13960874

Here are the steam engine builds representing that post:

http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp?a=true&s=dp&r=0.5&awg=28
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp?a=true&s=ds&r=2&awg=28
 
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skoony

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Voltage =\= power. The power is specified to be the same between the two builds.



Please read the link again.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...r-once-all-do-amps-matter-8.html#post13960874

Here are the steam engine builds representing that post:

Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

i have read them ad-infinitude.
one build disperses more power per wrap,er-go different attributes to the vape from that coil.
power and amps do matter.
:2c:
regards
mike
 

dr g

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i have read them ad-infinitude.
one build disperses more power per wrap,er-go different attributes to the vape from that coil.
power and amps do matter.
:2c:
regards
mike

Please read the link again.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...r-once-all-do-amps-matter-8.html#post13960874

Here are the steam engine builds representing that post:

Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

The math is done for you, the coils are identical.
 
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AustinOwens

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There are many factors determining the qualities of the vapor, but IMO the one that best answers the OP is the coil area-weighted energy density, expressed in units of energy (W) per area (mm²). Of course, heating time (lag), air flow, and wicking play a major role, but the more energy you can deliver to the coil surface area, the more vapor you'll produce.

In the OP example, assuming both coils are made from the same wire, the 3Ω coil will have a much larger surface than the 0.25Ω, but only the same total energy delivered from the battery. The larger coil will have a much lower energy density, thus perform weaker than the subohm coil.

Good lord man! Your spot on! Where were you when I was getting my electrical license LOL tell me you didn't figure electrical theory rebuilding ecigs haha!


Cloupor T5, Aspire Nautilus, Starship 1 by Space Jam
 

skoony

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Please read the link again.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...r-once-all-do-amps-matter-8.html#post13960874

Here are the steam engine builds representing that post:

Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

The math is done for you, the coils are identical.

series dual coil 1 ohm resistance per coil at 10 volts gives 5 amps of current and a total of 50 watts of power.
parallel dual coils 1 ohm each coil at 5 volts gives 10 amps of current and a total of 50 watts of power.
5 amps through a 1 ohm load dissipates more power per wrap of coil than the 2 ohm series load.
hence different attributes in the vapor.
thats the beauty of setting wattage as opposed to voltage.one can switch tanks of various types and builds and not have to
go through the whole volt/ohms thing as the device adjusts to the power wanted not the particular voltage a build needs.
regards
mike
 

AzPlumber

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series dual coil 1 ohm resistance per coil at 10 volts gives 5 amps of current and a total of 50 watts of power.
parallel dual coils 1 ohm each coil at 5 volts gives 10 amps of current and a total of 50 watts of power.
5 amps through a 1 ohm load dissipates more power per wrap of coil than the 2 ohm series load.
hence different attributes in the vapor.
thats the beauty of setting wattage as opposed to voltage.one can switch tanks of various types and builds and not have to
go through the whole volt/ohms thing as the device adjusts to the power wanted not the particular voltage a build needs.
regards
mike

If both setups have identical coils (length of wire) and both produce 50 watts of power, how can one have more power (watts) per coil?
 

Bunnykiller

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The amp draw from the mod is not the same as the amp draw from the battery. This is confusing, I admit.

Lithium ion batteries can only put out 4.2V maximum. And as the battery charge goes down, the voltage decreases. How is it that we can have mods like the Provari that make 6 volts no matter what the battery charge is?

think of a variable transformer.... like a dimmer light switch... as the voltage to the switch drops you need to push the slider up a bit more to keep the light glowing
 

AttyPops

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I'll say it again. For purposes of this discussion, different coils are different.

If I have two oranges on one tree, and they are both composed of the same chemicals, do they taste identical when I pick em today?

Answer: No.

Why? Well, one got more sun than another. Or maybe one was pollinated before another and ripened earlier. So one is just a bit more sweet than the other. There's lots of variables.

In the "old days" watts were watts and we all had stock coils with little atomizers and carts stuffed with blue foam. But that's not the discussion here. Sure you can try to make two identical coils and they will be pretty close. But that's not the question here either.
 

skoony

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If both setups have identical coils (length of wire) and both produce 50 watts of power, how can one have more power (watts) per coil?
ok i see what i did there.the power would be the same in each of the coils.i didn't take into regards the second coil in the parallel build. there would still be a difference n the attributes of the vapor,not much .though.
in an identical style build with 2 different reference resistances there would be a great differnce in the attributes of the vapor.
:2c:
regards
mike
 
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dr g

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ok i see what i did there.the power would be the same in each of the coils.i didn't take into regards the second coil in the parallel build. there would still be a difference n the attributes of the vapor,not much .though.
in an identical style build with 2 different reference resistances there would be a great differnce in the attributes of the vapor.
:2c:
regards
mike

And the difference between "not much" and "great" difference is ... the build. NOT amperage!
 

tj99959

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    And the difference between "not much" and "great" difference is ... the build. NOT amperage!

    How can you have a "difference" large or small without a difference (large or small) of something else. It's impossible to change one factor of an equation without changing at least one other factor.
     
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    dr g

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    How can you have a "difference" (large or small" without a difference (large or small) of something else. It's impossible to change one factor of an equation without changing at least one other factor.

    Um ... have you been following this thread at all? This is the whole point of what we're talking about.

    The OP is wondering if a large change in amperage (at the same power) by itself changes vape. The answer is no. It's whether the BUILD changes that changes the vape. So if you have two very differently sized and configured packages at the same power, you will get a very different vape. If you have two similarly sized and configured coil packages at the same power, you will get a very similar vape, even if one of them is way higher resistance than the other.
     

    Maurice Pudlo

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    Allow me to elaborate: I've been vaping for over a year and every time I've ever heard this discussion come up several different viewpoints are claimed with equal levels of confidence and self assuredness lol so I still don't know what to believe. The question is, if you have a low ohm build like .25 with a standard amount of voltage, let's call that 4 volts compared to a build with a relatively high resistance like 3 ohms at 13.85 volts would they vary at all in the Vape experience (ie flavor, vapor production, throat hit, and vapor density)? Since they both result in the same amount of power going to the coil, just being achieved in different ways, the only difference is the amperage being pulled from your battery in either case. Also, let's assume that we are smart vapers and are only using power cells that can handle these loads.



    In the first example the setup of .25 ohms @ 4 volts results in 64 watts and 16 amps

    In the second example the setup of 3 ohms @ 13.85 volts results in 64 watts and 4.6618 amps
    (13.85641 to be exact, just in case anyone's feeling particularly .... lol)

    to to summarize both builds have the Same power ie wattage from their respective coils, despite very different resistances. The difference comes down to the amp draw on the battery, so does amperage effect Vape experience or will these to builds be identical in flavor, vapor production, vapor density, and throat hit? I honestly look forward to your responses and any insight or informed explanation anyone can provide on the subject. Thanks in advance and remember to always Vape safely and with the most enjoyment that's practical as well as socially acceptable lol
    :vapor:Keep on vaping all you cloud-chasing cowboys (and cowgirls) =]

    If the coils are built from the same wire stock the result will differ because the coils will be dimensionally different.

    If the coils were built of materials that allowed identical dimensions they could be similar as their BTU output would also be similar.

    3.413 BTU = 1 watt hour

    Maurice
     
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    Maurice Pudlo

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    THERE IS ONE SIMPLE PROCESS GOING ON. Electric current flows through a coil and it heats up. The amount of energy which is released in any other form is neglible so you approach 100% efficiency. It doesn't matter what the coil is made of. If there is voltage V across it and current I passing through it the dissipated power is V x I = Watts and this appears as nearly 100% heat.

    If that heat is spread across two similarly dimensioned coils, same vape experience.

    Heat is divided by surface area, so the same heat delivered over a larger surface will deliver less heat at any one point than a coil with a smaller surface area.

    Maurice
     
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