I'd like a definitive answer once and for all: do amps matter?

[dr g]

Keep beating your dead horse and acting like you know more than anyone else while implying that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't have any experience. It's so very, very charming. It's not going to make a low ohm build vape the same as a high ohm one at the same wattage, but why let a little thing like observable reality get in the way of your genius?

Again, it doesn't matter if it's the same or different. The difference between the two is ENTIRELY because of the build and not because of the power. You can build a higher resistance coil larger OR smaller than another coil. Does the amperage define the difference between the two? NO. The build does. The amperage doesn't change at all.

The inability to grasp this really really simple and common concept does suggest a lack of experience. Which is more flattering than the alternative explanation of deficient comprehension.

 

[The Ocelot]

Hi doc!

I actually comprehend what you are saying. Perhaps you might try to express it differently, rather than hammering a point that isn't getting across.

 

[dr g]

Hi doc!

I actually comprehend what you are saying. Perhaps you might try to express it differently, rather than hammering a point that isn't getting across.

Sometimes it's the messenger. Why don't you have a go?

 

[Train2]

How bout this - ALL the variables of a coil impact the vape, so you cannot simplify it to one measurement (watts, amps, or other).
The diameter matters. Wire gauge matters. Coil SHAPE matters. Wire resistance matters. Surface area matters.
(so too, of course, do even minute differences in airflow and wicking).

 

[The Ocelot]

Well...My mind works very simply. I break things down into steps. I don't pretend to know more than I do, and I may well be wrong, but this is what I am reading.

I'll start with the Power Wheel I love so much.

We all know v²/r=p and v/r=i

I think what the Good Doctor is trying to express that the build has more of an impact in the equation as it is what the resistance is dependent on.

Example:

Person A) 4.5v²/2.2Ω = 9.2w ◆ 4.5v/2.2Ω = 2.05 amps

Person B) 3.7v²/1.5Ω = 9.1w ◆ 3.7v/1.5Ω = 2.47 amps

Simple stuff - but I think the point doc was trying to make is that the amps in the above example changed because Person A chose to build a 2.2Ω coil to get to ≈9w and Person B chose to build a 1.5Ω coil to get to ≈9w. Both had to adjust their voltage to match the resistance, but they didn't adjust the amps.

I hope that made sense (although it's actually irrelevant to the OP).

ETA: This was probably covered before, but amps do matter to me. I use 18350 batteries and they don't last very long if the amps are high. But the amps are high because I chose to build a .9Ω coil.

 

[The Ocelot]

How bout this - ALL the variables of a coil impact the vape, so you cannot simplify it to one measurement (watts, amps, or other).
The diameter matters. Wire gauge matters. Coil SHAPE matters. Wire resistance matters. Surface area matters.
(so too, of course, do even minute differences in airflow and wicking).

I think you put that better than I did. I didn't include the variables, as I said, I think simply.

 

[imsoenthused]

Oh no, I get exactly what he's saying, I just don't like the attitude that comes across in almost every post of his that I've read. Amperage changes happen to coincide with builds, and you aren't altering amps to change the vape. You are still getting radically different vapes at different amps, because of the build, because of the material limitations we face in making those builds. So in the end, amperage is not the cause of the changes, but we all still get different vapor performance at different amps.

 

[The Ocelot]

Oh no, I get exactly what he's saying, I just don't like the attitude that comes across in almost every post of his that I've read. Amperage changes happen to coincide with builds, and you aren't altering amps to change the vape. You are still getting radically different vapes at different amps, because of the build, because of the material limitations we face in making those builds. So in the end, amperage is not the cause of the changes, but we all still get different vapor performance at different amps.

But that's just how he is.

 

[Dampmaskin]

How about this: Amps is one third of Ohm's law. Ohm's law matters. Therefore, amps matter, one third.

 

[dr g]

Well...My mind works very simply. I break things down into steps. I don't pretend to know more than I do, and I may well be wrong, but this is what I am reading.

I'll start with the Power Wheel I love so much.

We all know v²/r=p and v/r=i

I think what the Good Doctor is trying to express that the build has more of an impact in the equation as it is what the resistance is dependent on.

Example:

Person A) 4.5v²/2.2Ω = 9.2w ◆ 4.5v/2.2Ω = 2.05 amps

Person B) 3.7v²/1.5Ω = 9.1w ◆ 3.7v/1.5Ω = 2.47 amps

Simple stuff - but I think the point doc was trying to make is that the amps in the above example changed because Person A chose to build a 2.2Ω coil to get to ≈9w and Person B chose to build a 1.5Ω coil to get to ≈9w. Both had to adjust their voltage to match the resistance, but they didn't adjust the amps.

I hope that made sense (although it's actually irrelevant to the OP).

ETA: This was probably covered before, but amps do matter to me. I use 18350 batteries and they don't last very long if the amps are high. But the amps are high because I chose to build a .9Ω coil.

Not really. Maybe this will help:

Oh no, I get exactly what he's saying, I just don't like the attitude that comes across in almost every post of his that I've read. Amperage changes happen to coincide with builds, and you aren't altering amps to change the vape. You are still getting radically different vapes at different amps, because of the build, because of the material limitations we face in making those builds. So in the end, amperage is not the cause of the changes, but we all still get different vapor performance at different amps.

You can get radically different vapes at the same amps and resistance. It's the build, not the amps/power.

 

[The Ocelot]

Oh well, I tried. I understand what imsoenthused posted, I was just going for super simple.

 

[tj99959]

Here's the simplified answer:

NO Amps ............ NO Vape!

So of course Amps matter.
Amps has the same relevance as Volts, Watts, and Resistance.

However:
If you remove the Thermodynamics from the equation, you are still up a creek without a paddle.

NO wickie ........... NO vapie

 

[Dampmaskin]

You can get radically different vapes at the exact same resistance, voltage, power and current. Just saying.

If you want two identical vapes, you need at least the following to be identical:

• Coil build style, including resistance.
• Supplied voltage/power.
• Airflow.
• Wicking.
• Juice.
• Chamber/drip tip size and shape.
• Ambient temperature, pressure and humidity.
• Draw and other vaping technique stuff, like pre-heat time.

I may have forgotten a point or five.

 

[twgbonehead]

Other than reality, and not having a setup to run off custom resistance wire in our garages? The whole point is that different gauges of wire vape differently even if the watts are identical. Different numbers of wraps vape differently even if true wattage is the same. The only way the whole "only watts matter" argument holds up is if we could make two coils with the same gauge and the same number of wraps but radically different resistance. We can't reasonably do that. So, again, in theory only watts matter, but we don't live in perfect theory land.

Of course you can. Wind 4 identical 1-ohm coils. On one head, put 2 of them in parallel. On another head, put two in series. The second has 4 times the resistance of the first, but at the same power they will both vape identically.

 

[skoony]

Allow me to elaborate: I've been vaping for over a year and every time I've ever heard this discussion come up several different viewpoints are claimed with equal levels of confidence and self assuredness lol so I still don't know what to believe. The question is, if you have a low ohm build like .25 with a standard amount of voltage, let's call that 4 volts compared to a build with a relatively high resistance like 3 ohms at 13.85 volts would they vary at all in the Vape experience (ie flavor, vapor production, throat hit, and vapor density)? Since they both result in the same amount of power going to the coil, just being achieved in different ways, the only difference is the amperage being pulled from your battery in either case. Also, let's assume that we are smart vapers and are only using power cells that can handle these loads.



In the first example the setup of .25 ohms @ 4 volts results in 64 watts and 16 amps

In the second example the setup of 3 ohms @ 13.85 volts results in 64 watts and 4.6618 amps
(13.85641 to be exact, just in case anyone's feeling particularly .... lol)

to to summarize both builds have the Same power ie wattage from their respective coils, despite very different resistances. The difference comes down to the amp draw on the battery, so does amperage effect Vape experience or will these to builds be identical in flavor, vapor production, vapor density, and throat hit? I honestly look forward to your responses and any insight or informed explanation anyone can provide on the subject. Thanks in advance and remember to always Vape safely and with the most enjoyment that's practical as well as socially acceptable lol
Keep on vaping all you cloud-chasing cowboys (and cowgirls) =]

getting back to the OP.

the total volume of vapor would be close as vapor produced is not exactly a linear increase in relationship to heat applied.
when graphed its more of a slightly bent bow. its linear enough for arguments sake.
the 3 ohm load would have more wraps than the .25 ohm build.
for arguments sake lets say the 3 ohm has 20 wraps and the .25 has three.(the gauge and build style being the same for this comparison)
the wattage divided by the number of wraps determines the actual power being dissipated per coil wrap. assuming in each case
there is enough power to produce vapor the total amount of vapor would be vapor production of wrap 1 plus wrap 2 plus wrap 3,etc.
assuming the wick can supply enough juice to the coil in the smaller build and not burn it the actual volume should be close enough
for government work.

the larger ohm build would have a smoother vape,the smaller a very compact,hotter,harsher vape.
now this is when we can discuss building techniques and designs. in either case by using different styles and materials,tank design,air regulation,and many
other things one can shape the quality of the vape. but to answer the OP's question there will be a difference in the the vape.the total volume would be close.
density,taste and throat hit would be different.

regards
mike

 

[VapoJoe86]

There doesn't have to be a big difference in surface area between the two. That's the point. All the last few posts have accomplished is nothing. Those numbers are meaningless because they are not based in any reality. There is NOTHING requiring you to build any two coils using the same wire.

It's more than a little ridiculous that it's so hard for people to grasp this.

My previous example assumes the same gauge wire in both coils. So let me try to express myself more clearly with this example: A person builds two coils from 30 gauge kanthal wire, one of the coils is 0.5 ohms (2 wraps), the other is 3 ohms (14 wraps). Both coils have a diameter of 2 mm. These coils are then installed in identical delivery systems with an identical type and amount of wicking material. The delivery systems are filled with equal amounts of the same e-liquid, then installed onto identical power supplies.

The power supplies are both set to exactly 14 watts and test-fired. The 0.5 ohm coil with 2 wraps of 30 gauge kanthal spaced 0.3 mm apart will dissipate 14 watts over a 1.1 mm length of coil. The 3 ohm coil with 14 wraps of 30 gauge kanthal spaced 0.3 mm apart will dissipate 14 watts over a 103.5 mm length of coil.

What I am illustrating here is the basic concept of heat distribution. The 0.5 ohm coil and the 3 ohm coil, when set to the same power output, will always produce a noticeably different vaping experience due to the fact that the 3 ohm coil has so much more room to disperse the heat.

 

[jamesf8250]

Why don't you just try both and see instead of whipping up up a frenzy?lol.
Granted this isn't nearly half as bad as some clone vs original threads I've heard of.lol. but it would seem the best solution would be to finish the scientific method. You have your hypothesis and the basic parameters of an experiment so try both and tell us the results. I am pretty curious to see how it would turn out.
Good luck. And as you said in the original post, battery safety.lol. unlike people, batteries don't feel better after venting/detonating. Lol






"I see where you're going with that. I don't like it." —Dierk, geistmage

 

[sahsah]

Absolutely... not to get cliche with the analogies... but... To me, that question boils down to something along the lines of this...

If I ride my bike 5 miles at 15mph using ONLY 12th gear, and then I ride my bike 5 miles using ONLY 1st gear... If my caloric energy burnt remains the same, since I'm doing the same amount of work (lower gear means more revs, but much easier to do so versus higher gear means much harder to push pedals but have to do it a fraction of the time) will my bike ride be exactly the same? And the answer is... absolutely not... The rides will be very different.

Ok, but your equating physical exertion with vapor produced. Is that a perfect comparison? I dunno, seems like there are different factors at play in the vaping case since there's flavor, throat hit, cloud density, how much vapor your producing. In the biking example it seems like it's only coming down to the difficulty. Also, I don't think the same amount of calories would be burned. But hey, I could be wrong

 

[sahsah]

Longer – shorter…
Suppose we have huge (and safe, I should add) battery. Suppose we want to test two coils at different wattage.

No, they're supposed to be the same wattage. That's the whole point

 

[sahsah]

It appears things are getting way more complex than the OP was looking for....

If I understood the question correctly, the OP is wondering what type of difference there will be in the vape, if you compare a low resistance/low voltage build (Mech) to a high resistance/high voltage build (APV) at the same power level.

Simply put, there are too many variables to isolate the answer you are looking for.

To achieve the same power levels, the wire used and/or size of coil will be different between the LR/LV and HR/HV. This introduces tons of variance in performance, so it's just not possible to answer definitively. The only way to directly compare a HV/HR setup to a LR/LV setup is to match the coil exactly, but if you match the coil exactly it's impossible to change the resistance of the coil, and the comparison cannot take place.

Ignore amperage for anything other than checking the safety of your setup. It has no use to vapers other than that.

i agree, as I stated earlier, I was just trying to gain other vapers opinions to support my claim in an argument. My opponent was proposing the creation of a variable amperage mod, claiming that amperage was the most important thing and that it would be much more practical than a variable wattage device like is often produced nowadays. I showed various examples for the impracticality and nonsensical nature of this but I thought I'd "ask the audience" so to speak, to gain further support.