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If we were (better) organized, we'd....

Discussion in 'FDA Regulations' started by Jman8, Jan 17, 2020.

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  1. Jman8

    Jman8 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2013
    Looking in this thread to cover points on items we ought to hope for if not push for, going forward. In this thread, let's assume all eCig products in the U.S. are currently illegal. Which technically, they are (according to Final Guidance).

    I fully anticipate disagreement on some ideas that will either appear in my post, or perhaps from others, but I say let's discuss/debate it, so there's at least an understanding of why anyone would hold such ideas as being sensible going forward.

    Here's my list (I think of most of these as obvious):
    • Liquid nicotine needs pre market authorization
      • IMO, if anti-types want to cripple the market, this would become a controlled substance and criminalized for possession or intent to distribute
      • therefore, this product very much needs to be legal
      • I'll admit that I'm not 100% sure if it is currently legal or not. I lean toward it is not, but if anyone reading this can find information that is thoroughly convincing on it being legal, and will remain so under what Final Guidance has put forth, I would consider that wonderful news
      • Until reading that information, I think this PMTA is of the utmost importance
    • Kids need to continue vaping
      • I expect many vapers to disagree on this point and to applaud all enforcement efforts of people distributing eCig products to minors
      • Personally, I'm neutral on this topic, in terms of my having no desire to distribute products to minors
      • I'm not neutral on my desire to see the (underground) market expand.
      • I also think regardless of what certain adults may think or believe about enforcement, that kids will continue to vape.
      • I will note that I strongly disagree with any notion that vaping is inherently harmful or bad for minors. I consider that ANTZ rhetoric. I truly think well versed vapers need to counter that message.
      • I also think that in 2020, this is where the war front will be highly visible
    • Congress (and/or POTUS) needs to revisit the Tobacco Control Act
      • I see this as inevitable and is something that may happen in 2020 (via a political miracle) or may take another 50 years, or more, before it occurs.
      • I think of this as something that likes of CASAA and vape industry either have pushed for or will continue to push for
      • But even if eCigs were not considered under TCA, anti-types would be seeking ways to ban it, and smearing all rhetoric that purports vaping to be something that is good and open to freedom of choice
      • This is item I see as beyond my personal control. I'll vote for the party/candidates that I see as having a chance of being pro-vaping. I currently feel there are very few, if any.
    • People need to stock up on vape products
      • duh
      • already happening, well underway
      • this goes for hoarders, who will or already have a supply intended to last the rest of their lives
      • and it goes for underground distributors who will be providing product to all vapers who didn't stock up
      • I currently see all people choosing to stock up as running a risk, more so if they ever distribute any of their stash to anyone (even for free)
    • All vapers need to treat underground distributors as brothers (or sisters) in arms
      • Assuming kids are going to continue to vape, then underground distributors will be responsible for getting products to kids.
      • Treating distribution to kids as a horrible thing is, in my opinion, working against the pro-vaping side of the equation, in the war we are in, or about to be in
        • Feel free to have your own personal decision to never be one who will distribute products to kids
        • But to disparage those who do get products to kids as automatically bad, is I think, running propaganda for ANTZ
      • The only obvious exception I can think of to disparage underground distributors is if they intentionally cut their products (mix it) with something that is questionable or outright harmful to inhale
        • I imagine all such distributors will be weeded out of the underground market in short order
    • Vapers need to network
      • or continue to do what we currently do, but with idea that the stakes have gone up
      • the temptation will be very high to fend for ourselves and let the chips fall where they may
      • but sites like this forum and others are hopefully places where we can continue to share information on how to do certain things (i.e. build a coil), or how to find certain things (without necessarily getting specific on who/where) and what political things are happening to hopefully turn the tide
      • The more of a unified front we have, the better going forward. I see this as very obvious.

    That's all I have for now. I can think of several things I'd like to see happen, or for sure products I'd like to see get PMTA, but I chose to stick to the bigger items. I currently have very little doubt that we'll win the war. Winning for me equals multitude of products are on the legal market. And offered by distributors that are clearly small businesses as well as distributors that are big business. Ideally at some point, at least 100 flavors of liquid nicotine are available on the legal market. That would tell me the war is virtually over, and our side won.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    Perhaps the most effective thing vapers could be doing is get out the vote. They aren't listening because they don't care about anything that concerns vapers. Follow the money.
  3. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
  4. Jman8

    Jman8 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2013
    I actually do agree that is perhaps the most important thing we as vapers can do.

    But also think we are in a current political reality where there are between zero and 10 (national) politicians that would keep the market we enjoy today, the way it is.

    So, this thread was about addressing what we'd do in the impending (or current) illegal market.
  5. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    I'm guessing, if there needs to be a black market, it will be small packages from off shore. If it works it won't do much for the public's health since very very few current smokers will go to that trouble and may be not even most vapers. IQos is coming. Governments will love that because it will pay the same taxes as cigarettes and will likely cost the same as cigarettes if not more. We are supposed to keep paying the big tobacco taxes for our working lives then die young so they can spend our pensions. Instead we get to keep "smoking", stop paying the taxes, and live to spend our pensions on ourselves. They express undisguised hatred at us for that.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Love Love x 1

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